Classic Focus Banners

mooken

Additional factor for the comparison of CLs vs LLs:

• LLs have 8% chance of bonus 5-star shards, 6% chance of bonus 4-star shards
• CLs have 4% chance of bonus 5-star shards, 10% chance of bonus 4-star shards

So yes you have better odds for pulling 5-covers with CLs, but lower frequency of chasing favorite 5s, even accounting for difference in CP costs.

ThaRoadWarrior

How do the 20% more pulls factor into the realistic bonus shard differences?

Zarqa

I’m not so sure pulling Classics with the aim to fully cover a featured 5star is a better strategy than pulling when that same 5star is in a release store.

With 85 classics right now, you’ll pull a desired featured cover only once every 52 pulls on average, compared to on once every 20 pulls in a release store. (Of course, in classics, those 51 other pulls will also get you 7 other 5 star covers, compared to 5 per 50 pulls in the release store, but it will take much longer to fully cover if you’re targeting one character)

ThaRoadWarrior

Honestly pulling from Classic as a lifestyle has been great, you just have to adjust your thinking such that you literally do not care what you get out of it, all of it is just gas to put into your champ engine. Look at every pull as a slug of shards towards your favorites, and just get whatever appears from champ rewards.

entrailbucket

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
Honestly pulling from Classic as a lifestyle has been great, you just have to adjust your thinking such that you literally do not care what you get out of it, all of it is just gas to put into your champ engine. Look at every pull as a slug of shards towards your favorites, and just get whatever appears from champ rewards.

And...like...it actually works. The champ engine churns out a big pile of stuff over time. It doesn't work fast, but neither does hoarding. One method is slow, steady progress over time, and one is a bunch of nothing followed by a big leap.

Is one or the other better? Well, I prefer slow and steady progress, but others might not, and that's ok. I do think, at this point, with all the changes they've made, the two methods are at least equal in terms of...uh...optimality.

Zarqa

Yeah, I fully agree. I’m a fan of the Grand Experiment thread. But what I was trying to say is that I don’t think this update to classics changed anything. The 14x odds doesn’t mean you should now try to use classics to complete a 5star. A featured store is still much more efficient to do that.

entrailbucket

@Zarqa said:
Yeah, I fully agree. I’m a fan of the Grand Experiment thread. But what I was trying to say is that I don’t think this update to classics changed anything. The 14x odds doesn’t mean you should now try to use classics to complete a 5star. A featured store is still much more efficient to do that.

Oh yeah, sorry, I missed your point. I agree with you there. If you're targeting a specific 5* then you should wait for a store.

xKOBALTx

@Vhailorx said:
As for classics, they have always been the most efficient way to get 5* covers. The trouble was that back in the day when LT and CP accumulation rates were much lower non-whale players were faced with a choice of (1) focus on LTs and get the 5s covered over the course of months, or (2) maximize efficiency via classics but wait years to cover 5s.

This is pretty much the exact argument I had with my alliance in the early days of the split and champ rewards. I've been Team Classic since day one and it's only improved from there. I'm looking forward to this latest upgrade.

Edit to fix quotation error.

Vhailorx

@xKOBALTx said:

@entrailbucket said:
As for classics, they have always been the most efficient way to get 5* covers. The trouble was that back in the day when LT and CP accumulation rates were much lower non-whale players were faced with a choice of (1) focus on LTs and get the 5s covered over the course of months, or (2) maximize efficiency via classics but wait years to cover 5s.

This is pretty much the exact argument I had with my alliance in the early days of the split and champ rewards. I've been Team Classic since day one and it's only improved from there. I'm looking forward to this latest upgrade.

I think that is a quotation from me rather than entrailbucket. So direct any complaints or criticism to me!

@entrailbucket said:

@Zarqa said:
Yeah, I fully agree. I’m a fan of the Grand Experiment thread. But what I was trying to say is that I don’t think this update to classics changed anything. The 14x odds doesn’t mean you should now try to use classics to complete a 5star. A featured store is still much more efficient to do that.

Oh yeah, sorry, I missed your point. I agree with you there. If you're targeting a specific 5* then you should wait for a store.

I think this depends on one's definitions. If you really want to cover a single 5* as fast as possible than LTs or release stores remain the best use. So really no change to the status quo ante there

But i think the focus feature in classics does change the optimal strategy for those who want maximum cover volume AND prefer some characters over others. Now one can hoard cp for a good classic season, where as before hoard classics made relatively little sense given the pool dilution.

So the comparison is really targeting a single 5* via LTs v. classics. That will remain faster via LTs. The interesting change here is new v. old classic strategies. I think it is now a little bit easier for those who want to volume play of classics to target a 5* here or there when a good season comes along. And it remains the most efficient way to get 5* covers overall.

ThaRoadWarrior

i'm not going to change anything about my store habits. I'll be curious how often it even matters with the new odds.

entrailbucket

I've already pulled two Crystals.

ThaRoadWarrior

so far the only boosted odds character i've pulled is a single clea

Vhailorx

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
i'm not going to change anything about my store habits. I'll be curious how often it even matters with the new odds.

Well, it's only a few % points difference. So it won't change things much at all in the short to mid term. But over thousands if pulls? I would guess that if this system remains in place for a couple of years you will be able to tell which characters were focused for a season or two. Especially the 4*s.

ThaRoadWarrior

Oh I pull all my CP in Classic as I get it, what I meant was I’m not saving it up per season.

Zarqa

@Vhailorx said:

@ThaRoadWarrior said:
i'm not going to change anything about my store habits. I'll be curious how often it even matters with the new odds.

Well, it's only a few % points difference. So it won't change things much at all in the short to mid term. But over thousands if pulls? I would guess that if this system remains in place for a couple of years you will be able to tell which characters were focused for a season or two. Especially the 4*s.

I’m not so convinced of this. It really depends on how many Classic pulls people do per season.

With the current 82 classics: once you pulled 121 5stars, 79 chars will have gotten 1 cover, and the three featured chars will have gotten 14 covers. It would take 121*6=726 total pulls to do so. To get a single featured cover you want, on average it will take you 726/14 = 52 pulls.

So for people unhoarding a large amount of CP, the new change will have a noticeable impact. But if you’re more likely to pull, let’s say 52 times per season (2x per day), those 14x odds are still going to get diluted out and might not have a huge impact across many players. All it assures you is that you will likely have one (1!) cover of each featured character.

Edit: I agree that it will have a much more noticeable effect for 4*s

NMANOZ1

Not sure why we cannot have a classic and a classic select, both 20CP for covers. It is a win for everyone!