4 * character rebalances

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  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 739 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2023
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    When the hell did this become about cars?! I understand the analogy but just because us 5 star people have no use for 4s doesn't mean we can't empathise with people who get a 4 that is beyond useless. And with the retro rewards meaning you have to pump iso into a dud, oh hello puck, didn't see you there.

    I thought I smelled cabbage.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Personally I don't want to understand the analogy.
    Day 1665. 4 years and 3 months playing. I have all 4* characters champed and iso positive.
    My effort and my time made it possible.
    So I don't want to be compared with a classist rich, also I don't really get this attempt to undermine a fine discussion like any other thread.

  • ThisisClemFandango
    ThisisClemFandango Posts: 739 Critical Contributor
    edited June 2023
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    No one is undermining the discussion, just different ways of expressing how we see it which is what I wanted.
    Just because veterans have the best toys are we OK with not having a say on who gets the revamp treatment?
    Granted the users on here aren't a big enough pool to make any decisions but the decisions that have been made are down right strange.
    Was hoping I could get @IceIX or one of the bcs team to engage and we could find out what causes the choice of who gets a revamp and why.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,301 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Exactly, we understand these characters more than some new player who doesn't have any of them at all. These buffs are to help them, but they're not really able to participate in the discussion.

  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,082 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2023
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    @entrailbucket said:
    Here's the thing -- they still give out Banner in rewards, and he's still available in tokens, and (most importantly) he's marked with five stars. Look at the rosters of ACTUAL casual players, not the "I only place top 10, I'm causual now!" folks, and you'll see lots of one, two, and three cover 5*. They USE those guys for stuff, and they accumulated them randomly.

    So yes, a Banner buff helps me, and doesn't affect you at all. But it has a MASSIVE effect on those unlucky folks who managed to accidentally grab and roster a few Banner covers, and he's their biggest character. And they have those covers because he's still in the token pool and he's still given out as a reward.

    If they were to completely remove him from all rewards, then there's no point in doing these buffs. Until then, there definitely is, because not everybody is manipulating RNG in the way that all the vets are, and rewards are mostly random.

    I've personally never seen new players with older 5* that have multiple covers. The math just doesn't support it. If you pull in classics its 1/7 to get a 5* and 1/70ish to get a specific one so 1/500 overall. To get 2 covers you need 1/25000. Yes, the more draws the more the odds go down but even if some new player managed 50 draws in classics the odds would be in the thousands to get 2-3 covers. If they instead pulled in a special store its 1/7 * 1/3 or 1/21 and to get 2 for the same one would be 1/400. So maybe, just MAYBE there are a VERY FEW new players who somehow got 2-3 covers of some older 5* like Banner but I bet it's less than 50 players.

    All the math aside, what does it matter. Is there really any difference between a 3 cover Chasm and a 3 cover Wasp regardless of the 3 colors you got? At that point the only thing they can realistically do is match damage (and their health) because everything else is too weak to matter much. The only exception to this has been OML's yellow because of the auto-healing.

    There is no need to worry about rebalacing older 5* for new players who happen to luck (or unluck) into a 2-3 covers. Rebalacing only matters for players who have them fully covered and champed.

    KGB

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,301 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Banner is a bad example for you to use for this, because one of his powers is the transformation passive. That power used to be awful, and now it's really pretty good. That power's buff would make a big difference to a newer player who only had one purple cover, even if that was all they had for him.

    He's not the only one like that, either -- so yes, I'd say that in plenty of cases, these buffs do matter, even if players have only one or two covers.

  • Bad
    Bad Posts: 3,146 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Puck feeds colossus and he is still valuable.
    Also they are responsibles for him being one of their first characters.
    Karolina, mr fantastic, antivenom, and deadpool has a super expensive red (but because he is popular for his passive he won't be changed surely).
    On 5 tier, logan spider-man GG cable loki strange havok.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,276 Chairperson of the Boards
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    My first 5* cover was a purple for Banner, and I used to hide behind his tranformation meat shield. This was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away of course, but it was a thing.

  • pepitedechocolat
    pepitedechocolat Posts: 204 Tile Toppler
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    This discussion is slowly moving from "which 4* you want to see rebalance the most" to "whiteknighting for people that dont exist that all chars should be the same goon"... This is obnoxious :(

    As for the initial question I dont really like him but, each time I'm forced to play red guardian I find him soo weak I think he deserves a rebalance, alongside with 4* natasha which seem to do many thing for very little results

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    4* Natasha used to be quite popular I think, I think she is OK but a bit more damage wouldn't hurt.

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,276 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I recall then-5* players loving Natasha, and I as a 4* player just absolutely not seeing it at all. I think a 5/4 rebalance of those two characters would be nice.

  • pepitedechocolat
    pepitedechocolat Posts: 204 Tile Toppler
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    What was making 4natasha strong ? I get she can be invis quite a long time (when mthor is not there) but her AP reduction tool is expensive, and her stun seems nothing special.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I am as clueless as TRW on this one, all I know is that it was...a thing? Somebody wise and slightly crusty will know the answer.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,301 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm the oldest (and definitely the crustiest) and have never heard of anybody using 4* Black Widow for anything ever.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,927 Chairperson of the Boards
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    No? Maybe we just hallucinated it then. Right - carry on, nothing to see here.

  • pepitedechocolat
    pepitedechocolat Posts: 204 Tile Toppler
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    @entrailbucket said:
    I'm the oldest (and definitely the crustiest) and have never heard of anybody using 4* Black Widow for anything ever.

    Well some line chat exists where things happen with any version of black widow, but that would get me banned both here and there if I were to speak further >:)

  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,135 Chairperson of the Boards
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    @DAZ0273 said:
    No? Maybe we just hallucinated it then. Right - carry on, nothing to see here.

    Maybe you're mixing up 4 star natasha with the 5 star? Back when 5 star black widow was one of the only 5 stars in the game she was pretty strong for her time, she has since been left in the dust by newer 5 stars.

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,301 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The 4* version isn't useless -- her "reduce AP cost" gimmick is pretty cool, and you could probably construct some combos to take advantage of that.

    I'm just not aware of a time when any particular combo with her was widely used. She's relatively new...I think
    5* were already established by the time she showed up, so 4* combos wouldn't have seen much use.

  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,927 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2023
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    @entrailbucket said:
    The 4* version isn't useless -- her "reduce AP cost" gimmick is pretty cool, and you could probably construct some combos to take advantage of that.

    I'm just not aware of a time when any particular combo with her was widely used. She's relatively new...I think
    5* were already established by the time she showed up, so 4* combos wouldn't have seen much use.

    She is 5 years old (same as Okoye) so I guess your range on what is "new" is open to interpretation, YMMV, etc

    I am completely lost as to why TRW and I had the same recollection though.