New Support: Battleworld (Exploration Map)

Scofie

I don't know whether I'm being too cynical, but it does increase usage of health packs for those characters with true healing. Okoye, SC, Chasm, iHulk, OML would all potentially need them if their self-healing abilities were restricted.

dianetics

@Bowgentle said:
Funny how the other extremely overvalued ability type - board shake - isn't even on your list!

I don’t think board shake is overvalued. There arent really many bad board shake abilities, but generally several board shake characters make it into winfinite or high level teams.

I don’t know many board shake abilities that are prohibitively expensive. Most are pretty cheap and work more than 8 tiles.

Permanent damage is extremely overvalued, and only a couple characters can use it effectively. Even when they do though it’s against a small minority teams.
I can’t even remember the last time a character tried to heal above Crystals permanent damage.

The only time permanent damage actually gave me any real benefit was during the Apoc boss event.

entrailbucket

Permanent damage isn't quite as bad as FFTD's tier list would indicate (although I love the idea of an ability tier list and I generally agree with most of that). The problem with permanent damage is that it's not generally useful. If the enemy doesn't heal (and most enemies don't heal), it's just... regular damage.

It compares most closely to another ridiculously overvalued ability type -- "cannot be reduced." Both are only useful situationally, otherwise they just do regular damage.

We shouldn't have to pay a penalty for abilities like this. They're worth at most 1AP, and often they're closer to a half or something like that. The weird thing is that another very similar modifier, "ignores protect tiles," is given out for free on all kinds of abilities.

These kinds of abilities need to be specced out as rock/paper/scissors types. If we have a character who does huge, passive healing, then we need an opposite character who does huge, passive permanent damage, to counter. A passive damage reducer needs a passive "cannot be reduced."

The problem now is that in a lot of cases, they've given us a crazy passive on one side with no corresponding crazy passive on the other side.

fight4thedream

@Scofie said:
I don't know whether I'm being too cynical, but it does increase usage of health packs for those characters with true healing. Okoye, SC, Chasm, iHulk, OML would all potentially need them if their self-healing abilities were restricted.

Is that true? As long as they have enough health, you would just need to take them into a match where you can easily recover from the damage. As I have noted, it's not like permanent damage abilities are dealing big hits to your healer character so as long as the player is playing smart, they can find ways to avoid health pack usage like going into an easy Puzzle Gauntlet node to heal up.

Additionally, a permanent damage dealer would basically have to be Meta-level or maybe god-boosted to have that kind of impact.

In regards to Chasm and iHulk specifically, they don't usually full heal unless in a mirror match to begin with and you end up in situations where you see the permanent damage mark slowly progress while they are basically dying and reviving repeatedly:

I did manage to win the match but it was my team that ended up needing the health packs after just one match

Notably, it's hard to determine if the permanent damage even played a role in clinching the win since I used Apocalypse black.

I think I would have had better results if I ran with SW instead of Magik or the new Kang/HE/4*DP team.

Bad

Permanent damage is pretty inefficient by many reasons. Actually the character who could make better use of that 12% is SC. Does really SC need it? Nope.
Otherwise a lot of AP, a lot of powers, a lot of matches must be worked out for permanent damage being decisive on battle.
Also there are some important factors which aren't logical but happen:
1.Knull could had been a great scarecrow because of the permanent damage he deals to the weak ally, if it wasn't because when the battle ends your weak ally has full health again. So it's permanent damage until next battle. Not so permanent then!

2. After all the hard work, if you are truly stubborn and the permanent damage fills all the character health bar, if he can revive he will revive with 1 health. Why? It's permanent damage. Zero is zero. No more revive then, that would be the logical consequence after all that work.

So the game itself is treating permanent damage effects like a low grade feature.

dianetics

Cannot be reduced is by far the most overvalued damage type. As far as I can see the devs feel CNBR is more valuable than perm dmg.
CNBR can be healed through quickly, and I think CNBR is the most niche dmg type.

Edit** if we have these type and want a RPS type game then there should be no penalty for this stuff. It appears Chasm has no penalty for healing reviving and extra damage.

Devs get your balance right

Scofie

@fight4thedream said:

@Scofie said:
I don't know whether I'm being too cynical, but it does increase usage of health packs for those characters with true healing. Okoye, SC, Chasm, iHulk, OML would all potentially need them if their self-healing abilities were restricted.

Is that true? As long as they have enough health, you would just need to take them into a match where you can easily recover from the damage. As I have noted, it's not like permanent damage abilities are dealing big hits to your healer character so as long as the player is playing smart, they can find ways to avoid health pack usage like going into an easy Puzzle Gauntlet node to heal up.

Additionally, a permanent damage dealer would basically have to be Meta-level or maybe god-boosted to have that kind of impact.

In regards to Chasm and iHulk specifically, they don't usually full heal unless in a mirror match to begin with and you end up in situations where you see the permanent damage mark slowly progress while they are basically dying and reviving repeatedly:

I did manage to win the match but it was my team that ended up needing the health packs after just one match

Notably, it's hard to determine if the permanent damage even played a role in clinching the win since I used Apocalypse black.

I think I would have had better results if I ran with SW instead of Magik or the new Kang/HE/4*DP team.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right. But if you're on a timer and you were running that Chasm team, you're going to have to heal up for the next round rather than HP into Puzzle Gauntlet to heal up. I think even the AI can't mess up perm damage so it will at some point cause an increase in healthpack usage. Might only be one or two a day, but it will add up over the entire playerbase.

Our maybe I was being naive and cynical! 😆

dianetics

The perm damage amount is too small to be of value. Unless a booster is running that perm damage will be less than5k

Punisher5784

I bet the reason for all these perma-damage is less to do with Chasm and more to do with the True Heal Supports, especially once supports are rolled into PvP

DJ47057

Is there any logical reason why there's a battleworld-costume for Medusa but she won't get the affiliation???

entrailbucket

@dianetics said:
Cannot be reduced is by far the most overvalued damage type. As far as I can see the devs feel CNBR is more valuable than perm dmg.
CNBR can be healed through quickly, and I think CNBR is the most niche dmg type.

Edit** if we have these type and want a RPS type game then there should be no penalty for this stuff. It appears Chasm has no penalty for healing reviving and extra damage.

Devs get your balance right

Right, the thing is that these abilities are not equivalent, so the counter-ability needs to be better.

For example, take CNBR (stealing your abbreviation). CNBR damage is useful only against characters that passively reduce damage or spam/buff protect tiles, otherwise it's just regular damage. But characters with damage reduction powers are ALWAYS useful, because you get damaged in every single fight. It's lopsided.

It's the same way with permanent damage. Let's say they design a character that actually deals enough permanent damage to be useful against the resurrectors, with reasonable costs. That character is STILL only worthwhile against the resurrectors! Against every other character in the game you'd be better off with someone else, because permanent damage doesn't do anything in those fights.

But Chasm/Hulk's abilities are useful in EVERY fight, because you take damage in every single fight. I don't understand why MPQ devs have never figured this out. A real, effective Chasm counter would be great, but unless it turns Chasm into a liability, he's still going to be the king, because he's still going to be the best against everyone EXCEPT the one counter.

dianetics

I am 100% on your side on this and you are correct. CNBR and PERM dmg are both overvalued but from what I see on the numbers side CNBR is overvalued by roughly 25% more than perm dmg.

Perm dmg should be innate to certain characters, just like CNBR.

It really feels like PERM dmg and CNBR use double itemization points. So if you get 10k dmg for 6 AP then you only get 5k PERM/CNBR for the same AP investment. It really does not make sense.

entrailbucket

@dianetics said:
I am 100% on your side on this and you are correct. CNBR and PERM dmg are both overvalued but from what I see on the numbers side CNBR is overvalued by roughly 25% more than perm dmg.

Perm dmg should be innate to certain characters, just like CNBR.

It really feels like PERM dmg and CNBR use double itemization points. So if you get 10k dmg for 6 AP then you only get 5k PERM/CNBR for the same AP investment. It really does not make sense.

Right, I wonder if they have some sort of internal costing formula for this stuff, or if they just guess. We all sort of know intuitively what's "worth" the cost and what isn't, but the costs and effects themselves are all over the place.

One of the reasons Chasm himself is so odd is that the devs seem to value true healing really highly in most cases, and passive true healing even more highly, yet here's this guy who heals infinitely forever AND does all this other useful stuff.

primetime21

@JimboJambo said:
The synergy perk seems to work against BRB and Apocalypse, where you would definitely not want your protect tiles converted into charged tiles.

Edit: Actually I'm really struggling to understand the value of the synergy perk. None of the characters who can use this support seem to benefit particularly from charged tiles. It seems to devalue the support rather than improving it.

For BRB, my question would be does converting them to charged titles have the same effect as when they are matched, in which case you'd get blue and green AP? My guess is no.

S0kun

@DJ47057 said:
Is there any logical reason why there's a battleworld-costume for Medusa but she won't get the affiliation???

Costume wasn't a factor in the affiliation list, but definitely a fair point! We'll add her in the next patch and you won't need to equip the costume in order for it to take affect.

S0kun

@skittledaddy said:
Any clarification how a Zombie attack tile differs from a standard attack tile?

According to the team, the Zombie attack tiles will usually be friendly, but not always. They're zombies, after all

S0kun

@KGB said:
How do the perk numbers change with leveling up the support?

For example R1 perk says +10% max health and +12% permanent damage. Are those numbers achieved when the support is leveled to 50 (R1 max) or 250 (R5 max)?

I really really wish all these supports that increased 'max health' instead increased starting health so that those of us (probably most of us) who go into battle with the character at <100% health gets some benefit from this perk.

KGB

As with all of our new supports, the Rank 1 perk will continue to scale until level 100 - so you'll get the 10% at level 100+. Rank 3's perk will scale from level 100-200, and Rank 5's perk will scale from level 200-250.

For the max health increase, going forward the default behavior for increasing maximum health is for the character to also receive the equivalent flat value in health.

So: with a level 100+ Battleworld Map, the character's max health is increased by 10%, and then character's current health is increased by the additional max health you just got: if your character has 1000/1000 health and you boost it by 10%, you'll end up at 1100/1100; similarly if you're at 500/1000, you'll end up at 600/1100.

No matter what, you should end up with 10% of your character's max health as additional, actual health. The behavior of existing supports' max health increases is one of the things we intend to change as we revisit them for rebalancing - it's no fun if more max health doesn't translate to more actual health

Wolvie171

@S0kun said:

New Affiliation(s): Battleworld

• 4* Thor (Marvel NOW!)

Thanks for the full list! Very helpful and it would be great if the game let us filter on affiliations.

One small correction if I'm not mistaken: Marvel NOW! is the 2* version of Thor, who doesn't have this affiliation.

Checking the game confirms the new Battleworld affiliation is assigned to 4* Thor (Goddess of Thunder).