Kang has entered LL

WilliamK1983

@entrailbucket said:

@Codex said:

@entrailbucket said:
Ok, I've been seeing these for years and I still don't get the purpose of them. Does somebody, like, collect all the results from these threads and use them to check the numbers, or something? If not, what are these for?

Does it need a purpose?

Ppl like to post their results what's so wrong with that?

If "people just like to post their results" then that's the purpose...that's all I was asking.

I guess I started posting results since it seemed like the majority here did when I joined the boards, some in more detail than others. Now I guess it's just part of my routine when I make LL or special store pulls. Also the redundancy of another backup of the info.

@wymtime 900+ pulls? I'd have to hoard for almost a year to get that many.

In reference to the actual topic, HM is champed I'm just unsure if I want to add onto him or keep hoarding. I'm at like 120 something combined token and cp pulls. Maybe just do the 40 tokens and call it a day? I'm due for a rate drop so maybe wait until I have more to pull past any dry spells? Decisions decisions 🤔

turbomoose

Round 2

28 pulls and got 1 more wong and 1 Kang champs Wong thanks to the wonderful team effort from my alliance to get us to the completion of round 8 in game

Now to decide if I want to wait or not

Bad

205 pulls, 30 5*s.
HM: red 6/ pur 7 / black 0
W: red 5/ yellow 2/ pur 4
K: black 3 / blue 3/ pur 0
On the firsts 80 pulls I only got 1 kang. So pulling on a small hoard always bears its fruits. Almost champed now.

shardwick

@Bowgentle said:

@entrailbucket said:
Ok, I've been seeing these for years and I still don't get the purpose of them. Does somebody, like, collect all the results from these threads and use them to check the numbers, or something? If not, what are these for?

It's even worse when people just post pull videos without a text summary.
Like, am I supposed to watch you pull for 15 minutes?

So, don't watch them?

Bowgentle

I'm not, don't worry 🤣
Just voicing my general displeasure, as I'm a cranky old man.

WilliamK1983

And stay off my grass!

Pongie

Wanted one more cover of hit monkey and got it in 9 pulls

Sp1d3r

@PhoenixMagik said:
66 pulls, 4 HM, 2 W, 1 K. Once HM is required in PVE one more time I’ll have 13 covers for him so I guess I stop until he rotates out. I would have liked more Kang covers, but at least I didn’t get too many Wongs.

Lucky u.. I pulled all my hoard trying to champ riri before she rotated out 140 pulls she went from 4 covers to 10 (4,5,1) HM went from 2 to 10 (4,5,1) and WONG went from 0 to 12 (3,4,5) I'm just gonna hoard again now until HM and wong leave

DAZ0273

@WilliamK1983 said:
And stay off my grass!

I remember the days when we used to have grass before Chasm...oh wait... wrong thread...that said #teamgetoffofmygrass

Vhailorx

Assuming that 450 is the minimum goal (i.e., the calculus mught be different for those playing in the 500+ pool) I would say that

Champing hit monkey > champing magik >>> HM champ levels = magik champ levels.

Both of these kits doe damage and benefit from making matches, so extra champ levels are generally useful. Bit they aren't true healers and probably won't be the main tank of your squad, so don't treat champ levels for them like you champ levels for okoye or SC.

As for which one is better, we obviously won't know for a little while yet as magik is too new. HM seems like a mid tier character, he provides some value always and has a few niche uses where he excels. That's solid. Unless I am really missing something with magik, I think her ceiling is more or less where HM is. Very good on a few teams or in a few circumstances. But her floor is lower as all the naysayers might still be right. Is constant, permanent chip damage valuable in thus game? I don't think that has been tested yet and if the answer is no then magik doesn't really have much else to offer. So I rate champing HM as marginally more valuable than champing her.

Even so, I would not chase HM levels if I thought it would risk my chance to champ magik.

Codex

I was torn between HM and magik. How I rationalized magik over HM, came down to who I can pair with them. Neither are PvE stand outs. With the correct purple ap generating supports magik may be useful in scl 9 and lower. In PvP in the current meta HM unfortunately has the be paired with Kang, his red is an excellent teamup. Magik also needs to be paired with Kang but can be paired 5emma or any other future passive boosters that may come.

Daredevil217

@Vhailorx said:
Is constant, permanent chip damage valuable in thus game? I don't think that has been tested yet

Did you forget about Knull?

Yes. And you will soon forget about Magik too.

Codex

@Daredevil217 said:

@Vhailorx said:
Is constant, permanent chip damage valuable in thus game? I don't think that has been tested yet

Did you forget about Knull?

Yes. And you will soon forget about Magik too.

Is knull the new wasp?

Vhailorx

@Daredevil217 said:

@Vhailorx said:
Is constant, permanent chip damage valuable in thus game? I don't think that has been tested yet

Did you forget about Knull?

Yes. And you will soon forget about Magik too.

you (and knull) and I have very different definitions of the word "constant."

Have you considered the word "intermittent" instead?

A much better test of this question is invisible gargantos. In my experience using him I am generally playing for the blue nuke and don't pay much attention to the chip damage. Nevertheless I do occasionally notice it, which suggests to me that someone who could actually do 3-5k (6-10k when boosted) or more permanent damage per turn from the start of a match might actually have a place in the end game.

entrailbucket

@Codex said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@Vhailorx said:
Is constant, permanent chip damage valuable in thus game? I don't think that has been tested yet

Did you forget about Knull?

Yes. And you will soon forget about Magik too.

Is knull the new wasp?

A bunch of folks actually maxed out Knull on purpose (he was in latest with some set of 2 actually good characters, but they chose him as the 3rd) and I still can't figure out why.

When he's boosted it's the worst week ever -- he has like 100 million HP but he doesn't really do anything. Every match turns into this infinite slog where you're both doing 200 damage per turn into a 500 million HP pool.

Vhailorx

@entrailbucket said:

@Codex said:

@Daredevil217 said:

@Vhailorx said:
Is constant, permanent chip damage valuable in thus game? I don't think that has been tested yet

Did you forget about Knull?

Yes. And you will soon forget about Magik too.

Is knull the new wasp?

A bunch of folks actually maxed out Knull on purpose (he was in latest with some set of 2 actually good characters, but they chose him as the 3rd) and I still can't figure out why.

When he's boosted it's the worst week ever -- he has like 100 million HP but he doesn't really do anything. Every match turns into this infinite slog where you're both doing 200 damage per turn into a 500 million HP pool.

I think he was with Switch and Colossus, wasn't he? I want to say it was either sighclops, colossus, knull, or colossus, knull, and switch but I would have to check the release lists to be sure.

Edit: I was close. It was Sighclops-->colossus-->Switch-->Knull in Feb-June 2021. So people picked knull over sighclops. defensible since neither is great, but bad in retrospect since the value of sighclops went up with SC and knull has basically been superseded by later permanent damage dealers.

entrailbucket

I think people thought that his power set would be useful against the Okoye/Hulk wall that the game was at that time. It wasn't -- the permanent damage he does was too low and too unreliable, his active black doesn't do enough and is too slow to counter Hulk's passive, and besides that, SW immediately removed Hulk from the metagame so it was all irrelevant anyway.

Vhailorx

@entrailbucket said:
I think people thought that his power set would be useful against the Okoye/Hulk wall that the game was at that time. It wasn't -- the permanent damage he does was too low and too unreliable, his active black doesn't do enough and is too slow to counter Hulk's passive, and besides that, SW immediately removed Hulk from the metagame so it was all irrelevant anyway.

That sounds about right.

************************Story Time Interlude!!!!!!!*********************************

As I recall I didn't feel confident that I had enough of a hoard when sighclops was in the tokens and thought a champed knull would be better than a half built knull and sighclops. so i waited and then had "bad" luck in that my knull got to 455 or something before switch was champed. knowing what I do now about BCS' plans, I would definitely have been better off with a half-built sighclops and knull that I could have finished from feeders while they warmed my bench. instead I still have a half-built sighclops and a beefy (for my roster) knull that never gets any play. Also, the game was in black and white and we had to open tokens up hill both ways. . .in the snow.

/Story Time

dianetics

I don't get why people are trashing on Knull...it's sort of a revisionist history. When he dropped he was quite good and very different from the heroes available. He was a gigantic meat shield that punished teams with low health. I may be wrong but is he still the highest health 5* at 450?

Knull was viable for about 6 months. He showed up often in 450 PvP.

Kamala killed his PvE value and SheThor killed his PvP value.

The drop order was
sighClops->Collosus->5witch->Knull and most people were pretty sure sighClops was not good and Knull was usable so they waited for old Scott to drop out.

Vhailorx

@dianetics said:
I don't get why people are trashing on Knull...it's sort of a revisionist history. When he dropped he was quite good and very different from the heroes available. He was a gigantic meat shield that punished teams with low health. I may be wrong but is he still the highest health 5* at 450?

Knull was viable for about 6 months. He showed up often in 450 PvP.

Kamala killed his PvE value and SheThor killed his PvP value.

The drop order was
sighClops->Collosus->5witch->Knull and most people were pretty sure sighClops was not good and Knull was usable so they waited for old Scott to drop out.

I didn't say knull was trash. I think he seemed to be slightly better than sighclops when they were both new, but subsequent releases have made sighclops better and knull worse, so the choice looks poor in retrospect. I think that's a fair assessment. They (sighclops and knull) are both mid-tier/niche at best.

I agree that knull's kit was very unusual at launch, but I think "quite good" might be a going a little too far. He was always a little too slow and too unreliable to be in the meta conversation.