Can an MPQ character be overpowered on offense?

entrailbucket

In fact, this situation happened, and most players considered it a good thing. Before Okoye/Hulk, the fastest PvE teams were based on Thanos. Okoye/Hulk at low champion levels were faster than Thanos. Some players were upset, most adapted. Very, very few players (hi!) thought Okoye was unacceptably overpowered at that time -- they were happy that she made the game faster.

There will no doubt be a faster team than Okoye in the future, because the game keeps getting faster. I don't know if that's good or bad, I guess it depends on your perspective.

HoundofShadow

SCL 10 was introduced in 2020 February and iHulk was released in 2020 May. Back then, top players were complaining about QOL due to long clear and grind times (30 minutes clear/25 minutes grind?)
Even a 550 Thanos can't make the cut for scl 10. 3* Thanos is superior compared to 5* Thanos.

Bad

@Vhailorx said:

@Sekilicious said:
You need to watch the show. He is op on defense. Nothing can hurt him. The only thing that could stop him is if He would end the game since the impending lawsuit would cripple BC and 505 games

Note that we are talking about the entirely fictitious one punch GUY. Any relation to real anime, living or dead, is purely coincidental. . .

Well, the One Punch Man anime or manga is the Japanese vision of American superheroes (as well as My Academy of Heroes).
There are collaborations, of course, but being things as how they are, this game will continue drawing marvel characters from its inexhaustible stocks.
In YouTube there's a lot of fan made videos featuring One Punch Man vs Goku, Hulk, Thanos with gauntlet, Saitama vs spiderman superman omniman and a long etc...

meteor0905

As I discuss with someone I want to go back to Shang and hope they fix brainless game experience (I have gd yellow support and always ~T10 @ SCL10 pve without kang)

DAZ0273

What is the point of playing the game if you instantly win? I have the same feelings on "Auto-complete" for trivial nodes. If the player isn't going to complete them then there seems no point in actually having them in the game. Maybe though because I view PvE as the boring part of the game I have that opinion, it is just mostly mindless.

Not sure there are any really good solutions.

Bad

It's not exactly instawin. I've been playing kang squad for 2 subs and I find I'm using a lot of health packs more than playing SC.
It's needed that the support activates (doesn't happen always), plus the 3 IM's cds survive the turn without protection, then HE not getting a beat-up.
Meaning many tries and then health packs.
Hulkoye is same "brainless" type and there are many factors involved too.
So of course there isn't and never will be a one punch guy, but a combo of many characters synergies and supports.
Actually it doesn't really matter much for me as I'm not in a top alliance. People who are must be studying kang, perhaps complaining that kang squad could be maybe faster being easier to get than a maxed okoye.

entrailbucket

I really didn't mean for this to be a Kang thread, even though that's what started the discussion. What I often see when people talk about a strong character is "well, that guy's bad on defense, so he can't be overpowered." It seems clear that that isn't true in every case though, even if it took an insane hypothetical to get there.

Most of the discussion has been about PvE, but what about PvP? Is one punch guy acceptable in PvP?

DAZ0273

How easy it to obtain One Punch Guy?

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:
How easy it to obtain One Punch Guy?

How does it change things if he's easy or hard to obtain?

Edit: I'm trying to ask questions and not just shovel my own dumb opinions all over this thing. I am actually curious about what people think.

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:
How easy it to obtain One Punch Guy?

How does it change things if he's easy or hard to obtain?

If everybody has him and he can instawin every fight that means everybody can reach the final CP reward presumably with little effort. So what does that do to PvP placement? What does that do to MMR? What does that do to boosts?

I mean isn't it just a game of cupcakes because every team is irrelevant on defence but every single person with this character can do it? Isn't that PvE but actually even easier?

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:
How easy it to obtain One Punch Guy?

How does it change things if he's easy or hard to obtain?

If everybody has him and he can instawin every fight that means everybody can reach the final CP reward presumably with little effort. So what does that do to PvP placement? What does that do to MMR? What does that do to boosts?

I mean isn't it just a game of cupcakes because every team is irrelevant on defence but every single person with this character can do it? Isn't that PvE but actually even easier?

Would that be bad? I know how I'd feel about it. Some players might think it's a good thing for everyone to be able to easily get every reward, though.

Bowgentle

I like to get the easiest 1200 I can in PVP.
But I also remember the time when they introduced shields, and they didn't have cooldowns.
I don't want to score 20K and stay awake for every minute of PVP for T5.
Also, instawin means you can't really reliably build points.
Look towards S2 to what that means.

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:
How easy it to obtain One Punch Guy?

How does it change things if he's easy or hard to obtain?

If everybody has him and he can instawin every fight that means everybody can reach the final CP reward presumably with little effort. So what does that do to PvP placement? What does that do to MMR? What does that do to boosts?

I mean isn't it just a game of cupcakes because every team is irrelevant on defence but every single person with this character can do it? Isn't that PvE but actually even easier?

Would that be bad? I know how I'd feel about it. Some players might think it's a good thing for everyone to be able to easily get every reward, though.

I don't know? Easily win at PvE. Easily win at PvP. I mean it sounds appealing but don't you ever get some satisfaction from beating a tough match? I was fighting a battle the other day and it went properly bad but I managed to claw it back and win somehow. And that reminded me why I put time and effort into MPQ after all these years. I can't be one of these guys with their spreadsheet and clock and whatnot, this is meant to be fun not science homework. I can't claim to speak for everybody though. Maybe instawin would be fun but I struggle to see it myself.

Bowgentle

Oh you're talking about 50 wins for the CP, that's a thing too.

entrailbucket

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:
How easy it to obtain One Punch Guy?

How does it change things if he's easy or hard to obtain?

If everybody has him and he can instawin every fight that means everybody can reach the final CP reward presumably with little effort. So what does that do to PvP placement? What does that do to MMR? What does that do to boosts?

I mean isn't it just a game of cupcakes because every team is irrelevant on defence but every single person with this character can do it? Isn't that PvE but actually even easier?

Would that be bad? I know how I'd feel about it. Some players might think it's a good thing for everyone to be able to easily get every reward, though.

I don't know? Easily win at PvE. Easily win at PvP. I mean it sounds appealing but don't you ever get some satisfaction from beating a tough match? I was fighting a battle the other day and it went properly bad but I managed to claw it back and win somehow. And that reminded me why I put time and effort into MPQ after all these years. I can't be one of these guys with their spreadsheet and clock and whatnot, this is meant to be fun not science homework. I can't claim to speak for everybody though. Maybe instawin would be fun but I struggle to see it myself.

Playing devil's advocate here...what would stop you from just not using one punch guy? If you prefer a game that isn't instawin in every mode, why not just completely ignore him and use only regular characters?

Daredevil217

@entrailbucket said:.

I think for me the line would be an offensively powerful character that's both very consistent -- who can win every match with zero risk of losing due to randomness, and who's also non-interactive in that the player's decisions don't really matter, or the player doesn't have to make any decisions at all.

Interesting that speed isn’t part of your “line”. By your definition Hulk/Chasm (with the right levels) are pretty dang close to a “one punch duo” on offense. There is almost zero risk in losing and are all passive. No matter what you do, you will eventually win regardless of the matches you make.

Daredevil217

@Bad said:
It's not exactly instawin. I've been playing kang squad for 2 subs and I find I'm using a lot of health packs more than playing SC.
It's needed that the support activates (doesn't happen always), plus the 3 IM's cds survive the turn without protection, then HE not getting a beat-up.
Meaning many tries and then health packs.
Hulkoye is same "brainless" type and there are many factors involved too.
So of course there isn't and never will be a one punch guy, but a combo of many characters synergies and supports.
Actually it doesn't really matter much for me as I'm not in a top alliance. People who are must be studying kang, perhaps complaining that kang squad could be maybe faster being easier to get than a maxed okoye.

Yeah, I wonder how viable my Hawkeye is going to be in some of these more brutal nodes. The boosted health has been great but he’s pretty squishy. Buff Hawkeye!

entrailbucket

@Daredevil217 said:

@entrailbucket said:.

I think for me the line would be an offensively powerful character that's both very consistent -- who can win every match with zero risk of losing due to randomness, and who's also non-interactive in that the player's decisions don't really matter, or the player doesn't have to make any decisions at all.

Interesting that speed isn’t part of your “line”. By your definition Hulk/Chasm (with the right levels) are pretty dang close to a “one punch duo” on offense. There is almost zero risk in losing and are all passive. No matter what you do, you will eventually win regardless of the matches you make.

Shock -- EB defines something in a way that nobody else agrees with! I've thought that way for a long time though, and generally I avoid using those teams because I don't find them very fun, even though it's typically a competitive disadvantage. The 5* boosts and the buffs have kept me interested.

DAZ0273

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:
How easy it to obtain One Punch Guy?

How does it change things if he's easy or hard to obtain?

If everybody has him and he can instawin every fight that means everybody can reach the final CP reward presumably with little effort. So what does that do to PvP placement? What does that do to MMR? What does that do to boosts?

I mean isn't it just a game of cupcakes because every team is irrelevant on defence but every single person with this character can do it? Isn't that PvE but actually even easier?

Would that be bad? I know how I'd feel about it. Some players might think it's a good thing for everyone to be able to easily get every reward, though.

I don't know? Easily win at PvE. Easily win at PvP. I mean it sounds appealing but don't you ever get some satisfaction from beating a tough match? I was fighting a battle the other day and it went properly bad but I managed to claw it back and win somehow. And that reminded me why I put time and effort into MPQ after all these years. I can't be one of these guys with their spreadsheet and clock and whatnot, this is meant to be fun not science homework. I can't claim to speak for everybody though. Maybe instawin would be fun but I struggle to see it myself.

Playing devil's advocate here...what would stop you from just not using one punch guy? If you prefer a game that isn't instawin in every mode, why not just completely ignore him and use only regular characters?

Because it would put me at a ridiculous disadvantage? Once One Punch Guy is out there you have to use him. Just because I didn't ask for him and don't like him doesn't all of a sudden make me stupid.

Vhailorx

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:

@entrailbucket said:

@DAZ0273 said:
How easy it to obtain One Punch Guy?

How does it change things if he's easy or hard to obtain?

If everybody has him and he can instawin every fight that means everybody can reach the final CP reward presumably with little effort. So what does that do to PvP placement? What does that do to MMR? What does that do to boosts?

I mean isn't it just a game of cupcakes because every team is irrelevant on defence but every single person with this character can do it? Isn't that PvE but actually even easier?

Would that be bad? I know how I'd feel about it. Some players might think it's a good thing for everyone to be able to easily get every reward, though.

I don't know? Easily win at PvE. Easily win at PvP. I mean it sounds appealing but don't you ever get some satisfaction from beating a tough match? I was fighting a battle the other day and it went properly bad but I managed to claw it back and win somehow. And that reminded me why I put time and effort into MPQ after all these years. I can't be one of these guys with their spreadsheet and clock and whatnot, this is meant to be fun not science homework. I can't claim to speak for everybody though. Maybe instawin would be fun but I struggle to see it myself.

Playing devil's advocate here...what would stop you from just not using one punch guy? If you prefer a game that isn't instawin in every mode, why not just completely ignore him and use only regular characters?

Because it would put me at a ridiculous disadvantage? Once One Punch Guy is out there you have to use him. Just because I didn't ask for him and don't like him doesn't all of a sudden make me stupid.

This argument is like people who oppose tax increases because "anyone can just pay more tax if they want to!" That may be technically true but it's entirely beside the point. The discussion is one of systemic incentives and resulting behaviors. The fact that specific individuals can act irrationally is meaningless if the vast majority of people will respond to the incentives.

If OPG existed then people who wanted to keep playing the game for rewards would use OPG to maximize their rewards.