For these seldom-used characters, it'd be neat to know which ign uses them the most (maybe two categories: most often lifetime and most often last six months). Of course, that's because I use MODOK four or five times a week for DDQ on a 4* team of Human Torch, Agent Coulson, and the Mobile Organism Designed Only for Killing.
Halloween is coming, it would had been cool to see a rebalance for Green Goblin
@Glockoma said: To preface, I like the quick adjustment to the oldest 5*. I think those sort of changes to non-oppositional characters have a higher acceptance rate than those other controversial characters that have received complete overhauls. To that end, I believe this is where the Devs could explore more liberty. Surfer was always a simple construct: true healing damage stick with an expensive unique power. His true takeaway ability by the community though was his seemingly arbitrary passive of being stun proof. These were easier times long before the passive meta we know today and even before early terrors that truly required counters (looking at you Gambit + your “counters”). Now, being stun proof is no longer unique. The one thing that kept his utility in our eyes was usurped by Apoc, a literal powerhouse on release. This can be sourced in Apoc’s release thread and felt by the comments there. A correlation to SS in 5* tier would be 5* Black Suit Spiderman and any future release that would carry his unique passive (reduction of strikes to minimum of 1). If this occurred, one would notice the same thoughts of replacement and absolute drop in usage of BSSM due to age (and everything that comes with it), as well as the relative lackluster powers. A similar buff to him in the same vein as Surfer would be a mediocre reception. For those of us that have played this game effectively since inception have had a feeling of these characters and their usage since release. Even if some of the development team can only ascertain that feel through numbers, they are doing a great job, especially with promises of tweaking said rebalances. This post is really to advocate for a bit more freedom in these once-unique, now forgotten characters. Specifically with surfer, I would have enjoyed a self-propagation of black (passively ala Gambit style) that could compete with Chasm’s drain.
@Glockoma said: To preface, I like the quick adjustment to the oldest 5*. I think those sort of changes to non-oppositional characters have a higher acceptance rate than those other controversial characters that have received complete overhauls.
To that end, I believe this is where the Devs could explore more liberty. Surfer was always a simple construct: true healing damage stick with an expensive unique power. His true takeaway ability by the community though was his seemingly arbitrary passive of being stun proof.
These were easier times long before the passive meta we know today and even before early terrors that truly required counters (looking at you Gambit + your “counters”).
Now, being stun proof is no longer unique. The one thing that kept his utility in our eyes was usurped by Apoc, a literal powerhouse on release. This can be sourced in Apoc’s release thread and felt by the comments there.
A correlation to SS in 5* tier would be 5* Black Suit Spiderman and any future release that would carry his unique passive (reduction of strikes to minimum of 1). If this occurred, one would notice the same thoughts of replacement and absolute drop in usage of BSSM due to age (and everything that comes with it), as well as the relative lackluster powers.
A similar buff to him in the same vein as Surfer would be a mediocre reception.
For those of us that have played this game effectively since inception have had a feeling of these characters and their usage since release. Even if some of the development team can only ascertain that feel through numbers, they are doing a great job, especially with promises of tweaking said rebalances.
This post is really to advocate for a bit more freedom in these once-unique, now forgotten characters. Specifically with surfer, I would have enjoyed a self-propagation of black (passively ala Gambit style) that could compete with Chasm’s drain.
bro what is your point of this 10 page essay you just wrote? are you satisfied with the buffs or not?
Just to be aware, the preview of the black power to 5 mentions 14k damage rather than downing the opponent. Might have missed the preview text in the update.
@marvel075 said: @Glockoma said: To preface, I like the quick adjustment to the oldest 5*. I think those sort of changes to non-oppositional characters have a higher acceptance rate than those other controversial characters that have received complete overhauls. To that end, I believe this is where the Devs could explore more liberty. Surfer was always a simple construct: true healing damage stick with an expensive unique power. His true takeaway ability by the community though was his seemingly arbitrary passive of being stun proof. These were easier times long before the passive meta we know today and even before early terrors that truly required counters (looking at you Gambit + your “counters”). Now, being stun proof is no longer unique. The one thing that kept his utility in our eyes was usurped by Apoc, a literal powerhouse on release. This can be sourced in Apoc’s release thread and felt by the comments there. A correlation to SS in 5* tier would be 5* Black Suit Spiderman and any future release that would carry his unique passive (reduction of strikes to minimum of 1). If this occurred, one would notice the same thoughts of replacement and absolute drop in usage of BSSM due to age (and everything that comes with it), as well as the relative lackluster powers. A similar buff to him in the same vein as Surfer would be a mediocre reception. For those of us that have played this game effectively since inception have had a feeling of these characters and their usage since release. Even if some of the development team can only ascertain that feel through numbers, they are doing a great job, especially with promises of tweaking said rebalances. This post is really to advocate for a bit more freedom in these once-unique, now forgotten characters. Specifically with surfer, I would have enjoyed a self-propagation of black (passively ala Gambit style) that could compete with Chasm’s drain. bro what is your point of this 10 page essay you just wrote? are you satisfied with the buffs or not?
@marvel075 said:
Lol,
The TL;DR version: satisfied, but a smidge left to be desired.
@Glockoma said: @marvel075 said: @Glockoma said: To preface, I like the quick adjustment to the oldest 5*. I think those sort of changes to non-oppositional characters have a higher acceptance rate than those other controversial characters that have received complete overhauls. To that end, I believe this is where the Devs could explore more liberty. Surfer was always a simple construct: true healing damage stick with an expensive unique power. His true takeaway ability by the community though was his seemingly arbitrary passive of being stun proof. These were easier times long before the passive meta we know today and even before early terrors that truly required counters (looking at you Gambit + your “counters”). Now, being stun proof is no longer unique. The one thing that kept his utility in our eyes was usurped by Apoc, a literal powerhouse on release. This can be sourced in Apoc’s release thread and felt by the comments there. A correlation to SS in 5* tier would be 5* Black Suit Spiderman and any future release that would carry his unique passive (reduction of strikes to minimum of 1). If this occurred, one would notice the same thoughts of replacement and absolute drop in usage of BSSM due to age (and everything that comes with it), as well as the relative lackluster powers. A similar buff to him in the same vein as Surfer would be a mediocre reception. For those of us that have played this game effectively since inception have had a feeling of these characters and their usage since release. Even if some of the development team can only ascertain that feel through numbers, they are doing a great job, especially with promises of tweaking said rebalances. This post is really to advocate for a bit more freedom in these once-unique, now forgotten characters. Specifically with surfer, I would have enjoyed a self-propagation of black (passively ala Gambit style) that could compete with Chasm’s drain. bro what is your point of this 10 page essay you just wrote? are you satisfied with the buffs or not? Lol, The TL;DR version: satisfied, but a smidge left to be desired.
@Glockoma said:
okay I feel you on that, yeah they could of made his black like 10 AP, or even better made it INDESTRUCTABLE, like an actual black hole, so many times I used him, managed to get his black hole out, just for it to be destroyed by a random match-4 cascade smh.
I had good success with this against a champed Chasm/iHulk/SheHulk set
But I went all-in on black! SS (who I have at 4/4/4, this actually helps him NOT tank so much), GED (baby champed), and C&D (purple at 3).
C&D to make black. If I can match it, great. If I can't, eventually I will, or the enemy will, and that's where GED comes in...
GED gets that theft AND healing, great for tanking. Added bonus of his yellow to boost the team health a bit.
Due to these factors, I had two Black Holes going at once at one point! And Hulk went off into space, never to bother me again. SheHulk was next. Chasm died due to damage, being last.
Very little issues.
Tried this again against a Chasm/MightyThor team... THAT was much more rough. Still won, but only GED pulled through, and found out that MightyThor ruins the BlackHole just like anything else. Sigh
I think this is a great thing. It's more "RPS" in the game. Sure, this team will lose against others... but I think SS has his place much more now than he did before.
Honestly, it would be super awesome if they released Galactus at some point and designed him in a way that his best partner was Silver Surfer and they made beautiful cosmic world-consuming meta-breaking music together. At least for a bit. Just saying.
@PiMacleod said: I had good success with this against a champed Chasm/iHulk/SheHulk set But I went all-in on black! SS (who I have at 4/4/4, this actually helps him NOT tank so much), GED (baby champed), and C&D (purple at 3). C&D to make black. If I can match it, great. If I can't, eventually I will, or the enemy will, and that's where GED comes in... GED gets that theft AND healing, great for tanking. Added bonus of his yellow to boost the team health a bit. Due to these factors, I had two Black Holes going at once at one point! And Hulk went off into space, never to bother me again. SheHulk was next. Chasm died due to damage, being last. Very little issues. Tried this again against a Chasm/MightyThor team... THAT was much more rough. Still won, but only GED pulled through, and found out that MightyThor ruins the BlackHole just like anything else. Sigh I think this is a great thing. It's more "RPS" in the game. Sure, this team will lose against others... but I think SS has his place much more now than he did before.
@PiMacleod said: I had good success with this against a champed Chasm/iHulk/SheHulk set
I tried this and I must have been doing something wrong because both C&D and SS were downed from IHulk damage within about 5 turns.
Given all the feedback, I’d be much obliged if the devs took another whack at ole Surfer. @S0kun @IceIX
I just think that Black Hole CD is too easily destroyed. If I can’t speed up the CD (the CD is unaffected Green Goblin, Coulson, and Hood’s CD manipulation powers) then it shouldn’t be so easily popped. It still costs 12 AP and you have to wait 3 turns. It’s impossible to last 2 turns if FosThor is on your team or against you. It’s a black hole, man.
And while we’re at it, FosThor pops DrStrange’s eye of Agamotto too easily as well. Maybe I’m too much of a fanboy but….. I really feel like there are some things that shouldn’t be able to be popped. A black hole is one and the eye of agamotto is definitely another.
@Tiger_Wong said: I just think that Black Hole CD is too easily destroyed. If I can’t speed up the CD (the CD is unaffected Green Goblin, Coulson, and Hood’s CD manipulation powers) then it shouldn’t be so easily popped. It still costs 12 AP and you have to wait 3 turns. It’s impossible to last 2 turns if FosThor is on your team or against you. It’s a black hole, man. And while we’re at it, FosThor pops DrStrange’s eye of Agamotto too easily as well. Maybe I’m too much of a fanboy but….. I really feel like there are some things that shouldn’t be able to be popped. A black hole is one and the eye of agamotto is definitely another.
@Tiger_Wong said: I just think that Black Hole CD is too easily destroyed. If I can’t speed up the CD (the CD is unaffected Green Goblin, Coulson, and Hood’s CD manipulation powers) then it shouldn’t be so easily popped. It still costs 12 AP and you have to wait 3 turns. It’s impossible to last 2 turns if FosThor is on your team or against you. It’s a black hole, man.
Preach!
Black hole can be given as a team-up!!! That could be very useful against big Casm teams since Chasm doesn't drain you TU-APs.
@Ares76 said: Black hole can be given as a team-up!!! That could be very useful against big Casm teams since Chasm doesn't drain you TU-APs.
Did you test it? I heard it doesn’t kill but have not tried it. If they were to boost it to make it worth 12ap having it fortify itself at the start of the turn would help protect it from Dr.Foster.
Haven't tried it yet because it's generally not fun to fight against Chasm. But why shouldn't it perma-kill when Surfer's power has been changed. Jane Foster isn't the probleme here. Most of the pick-2 teams I face are Chasm/iHulk and in pick-3 iShe-Hulk often is the third.
aim for one of the top corners to avoid MThor from clearing it away, yeah it relies on a bit of RNG to not have a charged pile pop up but hopefully you can match something below to move it away from the black hole. Was running SC, Mthor and SS in last PVE, was able to fire off the black hole in the challenge node and the 5* required node each time. Very happy with SS rework, yeah the high AP cost could have been brought into line with current characters but to be honest I'd rather see those modern characters have higher AP costs. Dunno but for me powers that can essentially down an opponent or cause severe damage should cost a lot, but obviously the passive power world messes with that idea straight away