Those rebalances are pretty positive. To ignore revival helps a lo with simbolic message "woho, men at work, I'm tough you know ". On pve many people could use it, if not having whales. On pvp I wonder if it wouldn't be another "not happening " case. To collect 12 black and to wait 3 turns is something that could happen at 15 turns, if it happens (against chasm double it). Plenty of ootions before as it's said.
People think this will be of use against chasm? I would rather skip still than collect all that black against an ihulk chasm team. Even in the remote chance it was useful how do I get surfer covers?
Thats makes SilverSurfer a good counter against the immortels
@Tony_Foot said: People think this will be of use against chasm? I would rather skip still than collect all that black against an ihulk chasm team. Even in the remote chance it was useful how do I get surfer covers?
Mr. F says hi.
I'm also curious how SS's anti-revive against not-immediate revival. Does the downed character get flagged against future revivals in this match?
@HoundofShadow said: Thanks for sharing the Gamora experience. Talking about Lumbercap's ally revive, it will be interesting to know how many times it has been used since its existence. I think it costs 17 or 19 yellow aps. Personally, I don't think I have used this ability more than 5 times.
@HoundofShadow said: Thanks for sharing the Gamora experience.
Talking about Lumbercap's ally revive, it will be interesting to know how many times it has been used since its existence. I think it costs 17 or 19 yellow aps. Personally, I don't think I have used this ability more than 5 times.
I think I used his revive about 2 or 3 times since its introduction. However, I never used it with Cap on my team, I only happened to have it as a team-up power in an appropriate situation a few times.
Just tested out the rebuffed Norrin Radd.
Test One: 3* Magneto lightning round. Surfer/Electro vs Chasm/iHulk I won, but took a lot of damage in the process (Electro got downed). 12AP takes forever to accumulate, and if Surfer is in front, Chasm causes him to lose 2-3 Blue AP, hindering Surfer's ability to heal. I eventually did manage to get a Black Hole out, which downed Chasm.
Test Two: Surfer/Elektra/Electro vs Chasm/iHulk/She-Hulk in season sim I got absolutely wrecked. End of story.
Test Three: Surfer/Storm/Black Bolt vs Apocalypse/Ghostpool/Chasm in season sim I won, but Surfer and Storm still took a crapload of damage. I never got off Surfer's Black Hole; in fact, I won by using Surfer's Red to fuel Storm's Black AoE, which downed Chasm. Also, having Storm in front means your Black AP is reduced.
While Surfer's buff is definitely good in and of itself, it's nowhere near a surefire counter to the current immortal meta. As mentioned, 12AP takes several decades to get, especially against the all-passive Chasm. It reminds me of when the previous devs tried to use BeardCap and Archangel as counters to Gambit's passive. Sounds alright on paper, extremely hard to pull off in practice. The best way to counter the immortal trio is to have a passive that prevents resurrection. End of.
Also, Electro is almost mandatory when facing iHulk, so that affects teambuilding. I haven't tried Surfer with Wanda yet; not sure how that will go. Without either of the Hulks, you don't have to use Electro, so you can use Storm to fuel Surfer's Black Hole. Even then, it takes ages, as I noted in Test Three, as Chasm can deplete your Black AP.
Chasm by himself gives Surfer plenty of problems. Throw in either iHulk or She-Hulk or both, and you might as well just use your own ChasmHulk.
The main thing about Surfer's buff is that it brings his numbers up to par with the recent 5* releases, and he got a huge health boost, all of which are very welcome. Just note that he needs plenty of support in order to check the immortals, mainly from Storm, Electro, perhaps Jane.
NOTE: will test out Surfer/Jane/Shang soon
Oh snap, now I'm sad I don't have a fully covered silver surfer!
Why not test Surfer, Electro and 5* Storm? They feed one another.
Wow! Nebula really needed it and Surfer now feels powerful but I didn't even think M.O.D.O.K. was a problem. All of these are fantastic - will definitely put some iso into my Surfer even if he is a-ways from being able to be champed.
@HoundofShadow said: Why not test Surfer, Electro and 5* Storm? They feed one another.
Yea I’m planning to try that trio out. I thought Elektra’s traps would be useful, but Chasm said no.
In hindsight, for Test Three I should have tried Jane instead of Bolt with Surfer/Storm. That might have brought better results.
EDIT: just used Surfer/Storm/Electro against Chasm/iHulk/Moon Knight. Much better results than all of my previous tests. Managed to get 12 Black relatively quickly and downed Chasm, so I could finish off Hulk and Moon Knight at my leisure. Also managed to use Surfer’s Blue twice to keep him healthy. @HoundofShadow
If the opponent doesn’t have iHulk, I’m interested to see how Surfer/Storm/Jane will fare.
Thanks for testing that out. With iHulk, it's good to have Wanda/Electro to mitigate the initial AoE and late AoE after Chasm is downed permanently. If iHulk isn't in Chasm team, 5* Thor/Silver Surfer should be good because it will be easier to match/cascade into black/blue tiles. That should mitigate the challenge of gathering 12 black aps. I haven't thought of a third for this team yet. Without iHulk in his team, I feel that you can slot anyone into Thor/Silver Surfer.
I mean... if it's only Chasm you don't need a counter. Just kill him last, maybe bring a stun.
I was thinking of Chasm/She/Hulk + others. If he's alone, then stun is always the default option against meta. I haven't ran into Chasm/Apo/Deadpool yet. Out of all Chasm based teams: 80-90% is made up of Chasm/iHulk/She-Hulk. The other is rare and I don't bother playing against them.
12 black aps, 3turn and only a blackhole? Let's go, Jane destroys easy its black hole. This s not funny. 12aps vs chasm is ridiculous!
Is it a bug or intention, that Mthor can clear the black hole? It sucks because I'd want to run her with SS :-D
I used Surfer/Colossus against a chasm/Jane team in the arcade PVP and that team worked well - the colossus match damage reduction was pretty significant and he tanks a couple colors over Surfer. I never got Black Hole to fire during the match though.
Another fun thing: Against chasm he isnt stunned, so he makes the opening match. And will eat chasms first cascade. This killed my 90k health SS because of two match 4's and a match three in chasms colors.
SS/storm/electro makes for a really easy to beat team for any other, and it's based on Ihulk having free green which chasm quickly mess up. Still the damage taken because of chasm will be great as electro only protects from AoE. It's a team focused on the black hole and it's slow anyway as after chasm death it's needed to collect AP for to restore health a bit and for downing Ihulk, but could work on 5* tier. On 4* tier it would be harder to put in practice, I guess.
@supergarv said: Is it a bug or intention, that Mthor can clear the black hole? It sucks because I'd want to run her with SS :-D
Your Match4 and green of shehulk5, can clear bh too
https://youtube.com/shorts/yaglehrpWyU?feature=share
I think this was a great rebalance to Surfer, but it does seem like he is unsuitable as a Chasm counter even though you really want him to be one. I ran him in Pick 3 with Hawkeye/Shuma Gorath trying to see if force-feeding that blue and red would help, but Surfer just ate everything and died quickly. I ran him with Thano5/5Witch, and i won a pick-3 match but hardly in a fashion where I could just do a second one. I've tried him with Doom, but the black siphon isn't that great. Storm is too brittle as a partner. Colossus reducing the match damage is so far the best anti-chasm I've tried.
All these rebalances in this batch seem like net positive too, I don't really see any drawbacks on them.