Why isn't There a Feeder Yet for Samerai Daken?

BlackWidower
BlackWidower Posts: 250 Mover and Shaker
in MPQ General Discussion
It seems like this one was skipped because I am pretty sure he came out before some of the ones that are coming out?
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  • BlackWidower
    BlackWidower Posts: 250 Mover and Shaker
    revskip said:
    Havoc sees your Samurai Daken and sheds a single tear.   
    Ha ha ha.  Havoc doesn't have one either?  I guess that was Cyclops.  I wonder if Black Knight and Puke (typo on purpose) will have good feeders.
  • BlackWidower
    BlackWidower Posts: 250 Mover and Shaker
    WilliamK1983 said:
    BlackWidower said:
    revskip said:
    Havoc sees your Samurai Daken and sheds a single tear.   
    Ha ha ha.  Havoc doesn't have one either?  I guess that was Cyclops.  I wonder if Black Knight and Puke (typo on purpose) will have good feeders.
    Black Knight doesn't feed anyone currently, but Puck feeds Colossus.  
    That's really good to know, Puck will have a purpose after all.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    BlackWidower said:
    WilliamK1983 said:
    BlackWidower said:
    revskip said:
    Havoc sees your Samurai Daken and sheds a single tear.   
    Ha ha ha.  Havoc doesn't have one either?  I guess that was Cyclops.  I wonder if Black Knight and Puke (typo on purpose) will have good feeders.
    Black Knight doesn't feed anyone currently, but Puck feeds Colossus.  
    That's really good to know, Puck will have a purpose after all.

     Basically the only reason he is worth champing/chasing.
  • BlackWidower
    BlackWidower Posts: 250 Mover and Shaker
    MadScientist said:
    The oldest 5-Star characters that have no feeders are
    • Havok (released in 2/2020)
    • Onslaught (6/2020)
    • Wolverine Daken (8/2020)
    • Deadpool (10/2020)
    • Magneto (11/2020)
    • Scarlet Witch (4/2021)
    I knew someone smart would have a list.  So yeah, there are two people ahead of him even.
  • St_Bernadus
    St_Bernadus Posts: 631 Critical Contributor
    And while not too many care about Havok, quite a few would like Onslaught to get a feeder.
  • The Viceroy Returns
    The Viceroy Returns Posts: 493 Mover and Shaker
    Interesting how almost all of them are within the same time/release era.

    Snarky me says we don't have them because the devs don't like us being able to "double dip" on getting both a Legendary token (pre feeder reward) and then the 5-Star cover for the same Champ level reward when they update.
    It's why many brand new characters have a feeder already in place right out of the gate or 'secretly' get one added very soon after release (I swear Echo didn't have one when she was released, but does now for example) to avoid such "issues"...

    The longer they wait more double dipping will occur, so either bite the bullet and do it Soon, or just never give these guys feeders ever.



  • dianetics
    dianetics Posts: 1,588 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2022
    There is a problem, every new 4* should be a feeder. If they do not we will continue to fall behind on 5*s without feeders.
    Since there is always a 4* then 5* and no 1/2/3*s the feeder will never catch up. So the likes of Havok and Onslaught may never see a feeder.
    Also, being that Dak5n and De5dpool are original creations with no ties to the marvel universe we may never actually get feeders for them. Since most feeders have at least a tangentel connection to the 5 they feed.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Thanks to shardmas, no one can double dip anymore. There isn't any conspiracy. The dev, back then, was forced to give full shards, instead of the partial shards they had in mind. When shardmas happened, a lot of players were happy. Obviously, it tilted the balance of rewards too much to the players, and they have to do something to "balance" things out. Here we are, no classic 4* will be used as feeder anymore.

    The dev has been upfront about balancing the game and resources. For example, when shards were introduced, they talked about how they have to make adjustment to rewards due to shards. Players called it a nerf, but it's called balance.

    The actual problem is that the problem is a personal goal for completionists, not a goal that all players have. The dev has never planned for players to champ all 5* easily or quickly because 5* are the end-game content. So, I think re-adjusting your goal or extend your timeframe of your goal is much easier than waiting for all non-Latest 5* to be fed. Maybe 6* might help things out.
  • BlackBoltRocks
    BlackBoltRocks Posts: 1,181 Chairperson of the Boards
    The Viceroy Returns said:
    Snarky me says we don't have them because the devs don't like us being able to "double dip" on getting both a Legendary token (pre feeder reward) and then the 5-Star cover for the same Champ level reward when they update.
    It’s not snark, it’s very likely the truth. The devs messed up big time with shartgate when they initially failed to give players all the retrospective rewards that players had every right to expect, and they deserved every bit of flak and criticism they got for that. It was only via a good number of players review-bombing them on the app store (which, again, they fully deserved) and other social media outlets did the devs finally give us all the full retrospective rewards. That’s why we’ve never had retrospective feeders since then, and never will.

    dianetics said:
    Also, being that Dak5n and De5dpool are original creations with no ties to the marvel universe we may never actually get feeders for them. Since most feeders have at least a tangentel connection to the 5 they feed.
    Retrospective feeders would solve a lot of these connectivity issues:

    Havok or Mehneto: Polaris. Havok could also be fed by a cosmic character like Nova
    Onslaught: ok I’m not sure tbh. Closest I have is Legion
    Deadpool: Deadpool (duh)
    Daken: X-23
    Ronan: Starlord or Nebula
    Wanda: Wiccan
    Shang: Iron Fist?
    Abigail: Maria Hill/Coulson/Melinda
    Odin: ok I’m also not sure
    Sersi: how on earth does Black Knight not feed her
    Big Wheel: some Spidey villain like Lizard or Mysterio
    Elektra: Elektra (duh)
    Gamora: Gamora (duh)
    Crystal: Karnak or Lockjaw
    Moon Knight: Moon Knight (duh)
    Shuma: hmm
    Kamala: Monica

    Or they should just make Morbius feed every 5*.


  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,176 Chairperson of the Boards
    Retroactive feeders are never ever going to happen unless the player base agrees to no double dipping and since that ain't happening retro active feeders aren't happening.

    Instead we should lobby for more champion levels for 4*s. Instead of 370 being the max, let it increase by 50 levels to 420 making more 4* viable with low level 5* champs. The other more important thing is that the new 50 levels could be used to adjust the feeder system since no one would have characters at those levels so no double dipping. Feeder could be placed at 380, 400, 420 to back fill feeders we need (in fact every 4* could then feed some 5* at L370+).

    KGB
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,576 Chairperson of the Boards
    The bizarre thing about the retroactive feeders is that "double dipping" isn't that big of a benefit for 5* players.  This statistic is a bit skewed by hoarding, of course, but I average between 4 and 5 LT draws a day.  So if they retroactively made, say, Legion a feeder, my Legion is at 341 so I'd get... ooh, 4 extra pulls on LTs than I would have - a bit less than a day's average work.  And that was spread over months.
    Some people made a big deal of it, I assure you, it really isn't.
  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 471 Mover and Shaker
    edited June 2022
    They really should just cut their losses and give retroactive rewards while at least trying to catch up to the last year's releases. Most of those characters have waited so long to be fed that anyone chasing them already managed to champ them, what's a couple extra levels at this point? I'm willing to bet that Havok being retroactively fed would throw some roster pressure at more than a few people.
  • jsmjsmjsm00
    jsmjsmjsm00 Posts: 268 Mover and Shaker
    BlackBoltRocks' view on retroactive feeders (and the vocal minority that harass devs about positive changes) are literally why we can't have nice things. Feeder reworks and shards were significantly beneficial to the game but the devs faced only backlash from people like them. It is insane that the same people then come here and claim they want more similar changes.

    Positive changes to the game can be made without directly putting reparation resources into your pockets. If the devs see negative response to them making positive game improvements, then it disincentivizes making these changes in the future. 
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 1,218 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2022
    No description available

    The Devs faced backlash because we had been previously told by the Devs that players will be rewarded all retroactive champ rewards when a 4 star character becomes a feeder so long as they do not sell that 4 star, and that had been the standard practice every time a 4 star was updated.  Players were expecting to get the full rewards as we had been told in the past that we would and were understandably confused when we instead got only a portion of the rewards we had been told to expect and there was no communication that this would happen except for a small edit made to the announcement a few hours before the rewards went live in game (I believe this stealth edit was made around 3am CST) 

    The Devs didn't respond to the players who were confused about the sudden change on this forum or on facebook, and if I remember correctly there was one snarky response on discord that was something along the lines of "you should just be happy we gave you anything at all and be quiet" which of course did not sit well with players and was the catalyst to the review bombing and negativity.


  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,176 Chairperson of the Boards
    GrimSkald said:
    The bizarre thing about the retroactive feeders is that "double dipping" isn't that big of a benefit for 5* players.  This statistic is a bit skewed by hoarding, of course, but I average between 4 and 5 LT draws a day.  So if they retroactively made, say, Legion a feeder, my Legion is at 341 so I'd get... ooh, 4 extra pulls on LTs than I would have - a bit less than a day's average work.  And that was spread over months.
    Some people made a big deal of it, I assure you, it really isn't.
    Yeah but with shards it's not just the 280, 300, 320, 340 levels that get replaced. It's also the 295, 298, 315, 318, 335, 338 and so on that also double dip and those contain HP and CP rewards.

    All in all it adds up to a LOT of double dip resources for someone who has a 370 character (and many do).

    If it's not that big a deal, players should be willing to give back the double dipped stuff (ie LTs, CPs, HP) even if they temporarily go negative if they don't have enough.

    KGB
  • Timemachinego
    Timemachinego Posts: 471 Mover and Shaker
    edited June 2022
    I'd happily refund what was given in place, even 1/5th of a 5* is better than any of those rewards. The problem would be implementing whatever system would handle that, D3 making up for past problems is like ordering a pizza and getting a bagel dunked in ketchup.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    Back then in 2017, shards didn't exist. Only coloured covers exists. The value of 500 5* shards > 1 full 5* cover. The number of pulls needed to hit "bonus" cover increased. When BH was around, the number of pulls needed was ~140 pulls but we need 167 pulls now, which is a 19.28% increase. On the flip side, shards guarantee a cover at the 167th pull.  Anyway, retrospective feeder is a done deal. We can only wait for new 4* as feeders irregularly.

    On a side note, I must have opened up the wounds in someone's heart because someone flagged nine of my posts. Some posters end up being collateral damage because their posts got flagged too in other threads. Feeders are serious business.  :D

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