How much of a change would 5* Scarlet Witch need to *only* be viable when boosted?

ThaRoadWarrior

I’m not so sure some of y’all know how to play Okoye the way people talk about how she loses team up when not tanking because you are choosing to match other colors. You put her out with a passive damager specifically so you won’t be chasing other colors - you should only be chasing team up and yellow unless absolutely necessary. And even if she drops back for a turn or two, you are only losing a single team up. Imagine moving water between two bowls with a cup. If the cup had a pinhole in the bottom, you wouldn’t be like “well, this is an impossible task…” you’d just do it and clean up the drips.

Daredevil217

DAZ0273 said:

I guess I missed something but I thought the answer was : none. I think Hound is right though that this comes down to definition of what "usable" is to any given player. I use all my 5* unboosted at some point, some more than others but they generally get some play. So from my perspective Switch is no more usable unboosted than Cable is. She is better, I am not arguing otherwise but Cable can still do a job.

Thank you for naming this.  The threads that this one is parodying have poll options, which I think would be helpful.  If this was included I'd choose Option 1: No Rework Needed.

I think the only time I have used Switch over boosted options was the first half of my PVP climb on the Sinister/Ock/IM40/Surfer boost weeks. I opted for a blue battery rather than playing blue overlap, but eventually switched to Ock/Sinister (despite overlap, because I find that scarier to stare down).

So all I'd really NEED is less overlap that week (which will happen naturally as characters are added).  What I'd WANT are buffs to those older three characters who are really the dregs of MPQ.  That'd about do it.

Bad

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I’m not so sure some of y’all know how to play Okoye the way people talk about how she loses team up when not tanking because you are choosing to match other colors. You put her out with a passive damager specifically so you won’t be chasing other colors - you should only be chasing team up and yellow unless absolutely necessary. And even if she drops back for a turn or two, you are only losing a single team up. Imagine moving water between two bowls with a cup. If the cup had a pinhole in the bottom, you wouldn’t be like “well, this is an impossible task…” you’d just do it and clean up the drips.

Okoye level 450 has 740/650/580 match damage. 
Yes, I would say she is pretty obsolete. 
Or is she going to be in front with those numbers?
Hehe I knew someone would jump when talking about okoye, even if I'm stating the truth. 

KGB

entrailbucket said:

KGB said:

entrailbucket said:

KGB said:

entrailbucket said:

No, obviously he's underpowered now.  I think they should buff him now, and I supported his nerf at that time.

In retrospect, do you think they should've done what they did at that time?  How would you have countered Gambit, in that metagame, in a way that didn't completely take over the game with the counter?

If they had just waited another month or two everything would have resolved itself. Kitty was released about a month or so after Gambit's nerf. Had they waited, Kitty/Grocket would have handily countered Gambit because his AP destruction would not have mattered to that team and by the time his Purple was ready to fire Kitty would have buffed Grockets strikes a few times and killed Gambit.

KGB

Were you playing Gambit back then?  The top team at the time was Gambit/Thor, and that was 100% of the PvP meta.  Kitty would've been dead before she boosted anything enough to make an impact. 

Actually, nobody would've even discovered that Kitty was good.  At the time, all new 5* were deemed "DOA" by Gambit users, which was the entire top of the game.  Nobody was pulling for anyone because there was no reason to.

Not at all. I was an early 4* player then.

But what you just described is what players do when using Gambit. Of course they were going to win with half Thor/Gambit. I simply maintain that Kitty/Grocket would easily beat defensive teams of Gambit/Thor since the AI would never get to use half Thor's shenanigans. Thus the complaint that only Gambit beats Gambit would no longer have been true.

Plus 2 more months after Kitty, Bishop got released...

In other words Gambits reign of terror was about to end naturally anyway simply because the era of passives was about to begin.

KGB

If Kitty could theoretically beat Gambit/Thor on offense, but Gambit/Thor beats *literally anything* on offense, including Kitty, why would Gambit players ever change teams?  Why would anyone choose to play a narrow counter character when you can just play the guy who beats everything?

Offense matters.

I'm not disagreeing with that.

My point was that your original post (at the top of this post if you expand it) was that Gambit was nerfed because only Gambit could beat Gambit (which was most definitely true at the time of his nerf). Followed by 'how could they have countered Gambit with another character without wrecking the game with an even more over powered one'.

What I said was if they had just waited a couple months more (after waiting almost 2 years), everything would have resolved itself naturally thanks to Kitty. She was the first character capable of beating Gambit. She showed it *could be done* without breaking the game. I'm not saying players wouldn't still use him, I'm just saying he was no longer the be all and end all because there was a path to new metas.

Since then plenty of characters like IHulk, Beta Ray Bill and so on have come along that also would have handled Gambit teams. In other words the game organically would have sorted itself out without the need for a nerf or breaking the game.

KGB

entrailbucket

Bad said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I’m not so sure some of y’all know how to play Okoye the way people talk about how she loses team up when not tanking because you are choosing to match other colors. You put her out with a passive damager specifically so you won’t be chasing other colors - you should only be chasing team up and yellow unless absolutely necessary. And even if she drops back for a turn or two, you are only losing a single team up. Imagine moving water between two bowls with a cup. If the cup had a pinhole in the bottom, you wouldn’t be like “well, this is an impossible task…” you’d just do it and clean up the drips.

Okoye level 450 has 740/650/580 match damage. 
Yes, I would say she is pretty obsolete. 
Or is she going to be in front with those numbers?
Hehe I knew someone would jump when talking about okoye, even if I'm stating the truth. 

It's probably because no one using unboosted Okoye is using her at 450.

entrailbucket

Daredevil217 said:

DAZ0273 said:

I guess I missed something but I thought the answer was : none. I think Hound is right though that this comes down to definition of what "usable" is to any given player. I use all my 5* unboosted at some point, some more than others but they generally get some play. So from my perspective Switch is no more usable unboosted than Cable is. She is better, I am not arguing otherwise but Cable can still do a job.

Thank you for naming this.  The threads that this one is parodying have poll options, which I think would be helpful.  If this was included I'd choose Option 1: No Rework Needed.

I think the only time I have used Switch over boosted options was the first half of my PVP climb on the Sinister/Ock/IM40/Surfer boost weeks. I opted for a blue battery rather than playing blue overlap, but eventually switched to Ock/Sinister (despite overlap, because I find that scarier to stare down).

So all I'd really NEED is less overlap that week (which will happen naturally as characters are added).  What I'd WANT are buffs to those older three characters who are really the dregs of MPQ.  That'd about do it.

Lived experience matters.  Your theorycrafting, explanation of the 450 game, and speculation about the high level competitive metagame is interesting.  But most of it is just wrong, in ways that I and a few others have been describing. 

I'm telling you what I actually see, in the game that I actually play, and you're theorycrafting, and telling me that things I actually see are wrong. 

Try playing the high level game for a few days and see if you still feel the same way.

Daredevil217

entrailbucket said:

Daredevil217 said:

DAZ0273 said:

I guess I missed something but I thought the answer was : none. I think Hound is right though that this comes down to definition of what "usable" is to any given player. I use all my 5* unboosted at some point, some more than others but they generally get some play. So from my perspective Switch is no more usable unboosted than Cable is. She is better, I am not arguing otherwise but Cable can still do a job.

Thank you for naming this.  The threads that this one is parodying have poll options, which I think would be helpful.  If this was included I'd choose Option 1: No Rework Needed.

I think the only time I have used Switch over boosted options was the first half of my PVP climb on the Sinister/Ock/IM40/Surfer boost weeks. I opted for a blue battery rather than playing blue overlap, but eventually switched to Ock/Sinister (despite overlap, because I find that scarier to stare down).

So all I'd really NEED is less overlap that week (which will happen naturally as characters are added).  What I'd WANT are buffs to those older three characters who are really the dregs of MPQ.  That'd about do it.

Lived experience matters.  Your theorycrafting, explanation of the 450 game, and speculation about the high level competitive metagame is interesting.  But most of it is just wrong, in ways that I and a few others have been describing. 

I'm telling you what I actually see, in the game that I actually play, and you're theorycrafting, and telling me that things I actually see are wrong. 

Try playing the high level game for a few days and see if you still feel the same way.

This is why the poll would be helpful.  I was speaking to my experience.  And in my experience she is already not used (except edge cases). So I would vote "no rework needed" had you chosen to include a poll.  That's all I was saying.  You might vote differently based on your experience.  Saying a 450 Electro/Ghost Rider can't beat a similar level Switch without actually trying is an example of theorycrafting.  What I am speaking to is my experience and telling you how I specifically would vote if you chose to add the poll that the other threads had (and you for some reason chose not to include).  Please don't misrepresent me (again).

entrailbucket

Daredevil217 said:

entrailbucket said:

Daredevil217 said:

DAZ0273 said:

I guess I missed something but I thought the answer was : none. I think Hound is right though that this comes down to definition of what "usable" is to any given player. I use all my 5* unboosted at some point, some more than others but they generally get some play. So from my perspective Switch is no more usable unboosted than Cable is. She is better, I am not arguing otherwise but Cable can still do a job.

Thank you for naming this.  The threads that this one is parodying have poll options, which I think would be helpful.  If this was included I'd choose Option 1: No Rework Needed.

I think the only time I have used Switch over boosted options was the first half of my PVP climb on the Sinister/Ock/IM40/Surfer boost weeks. I opted for a blue battery rather than playing blue overlap, but eventually switched to Ock/Sinister (despite overlap, because I find that scarier to stare down).

So all I'd really NEED is less overlap that week (which will happen naturally as characters are added).  What I'd WANT are buffs to those older three characters who are really the dregs of MPQ.  That'd about do it.

Lived experience matters.  Your theorycrafting, explanation of the 450 game, and speculation about the high level competitive metagame is interesting.  But most of it is just wrong, in ways that I and a few others have been describing. 

I'm telling you what I actually see, in the game that I actually play, and you're theorycrafting, and telling me that things I actually see are wrong. 

Try playing the high level game for a few days and see if you still feel the same way.

This is why the poll would be helpful.  I was speaking to my experience.  And in my experience she is already not used (except edge cases). So I would vote "no rework needed" had you chosen to include a poll.  That's all I was saying.  You might vote differently based on your experience.  Saying a 450 Electro/Ghost Rider can't beat a similar level Switch without actually trying is an example of theorycrafting.  What I am speaking to is my experience and telling you how I specifically would vote if you chose to add the poll that the other threads had (and you for some reason chose not to include).  Please don't misrepresent me (again).

You're right!  You are absolutely an authority on the low level metagame and I shouldn't have speculated about which low level characters can beat other low level characters. 

In the same way, you've spent the majority of this argument invalidating and minimizing my experience and telling me not only that I don't see things I actually see (we call this gaslighting) but that I must be an unskilled player if I can't handle theoretical situations that you speculate about.


I suspect that if I'd actually included a poll, the majority of the answers would've been "this is a NERF THREAD! GET HIM!" so I'm not sure that would've been a worthwhile exercise.  The only players who actually answered the question are the few high-level folks left on this forum that I know by reputation.  Everyone else just instantly shifted into attack mode.

entrailbucket

KGB said:

entrailbucket said:

KGB said:

entrailbucket said:

KGB said:

entrailbucket said:

No, obviously he's underpowered now.  I think they should buff him now, and I supported his nerf at that time.

In retrospect, do you think they should've done what they did at that time?  How would you have countered Gambit, in that metagame, in a way that didn't completely take over the game with the counter?

If they had just waited another month or two everything would have resolved itself. Kitty was released about a month or so after Gambit's nerf. Had they waited, Kitty/Grocket would have handily countered Gambit because his AP destruction would not have mattered to that team and by the time his Purple was ready to fire Kitty would have buffed Grockets strikes a few times and killed Gambit.

KGB

Were you playing Gambit back then?  The top team at the time was Gambit/Thor, and that was 100% of the PvP meta.  Kitty would've been dead before she boosted anything enough to make an impact. 

Actually, nobody would've even discovered that Kitty was good.  At the time, all new 5* were deemed "DOA" by Gambit users, which was the entire top of the game.  Nobody was pulling for anyone because there was no reason to.

Not at all. I was an early 4* player then.

But what you just described is what players do when using Gambit. Of course they were going to win with half Thor/Gambit. I simply maintain that Kitty/Grocket would easily beat defensive teams of Gambit/Thor since the AI would never get to use half Thor's shenanigans. Thus the complaint that only Gambit beats Gambit would no longer have been true.

Plus 2 more months after Kitty, Bishop got released...

In other words Gambits reign of terror was about to end naturally anyway simply because the era of passives was about to begin.

KGB

If Kitty could theoretically beat Gambit/Thor on offense, but Gambit/Thor beats *literally anything* on offense, including Kitty, why would Gambit players ever change teams?  Why would anyone choose to play a narrow counter character when you can just play the guy who beats everything?

Offense matters.

I'm not disagreeing with that.

My point was that your original post (at the top of this post if you expand it) was that Gambit was nerfed because only Gambit could beat Gambit (which was most definitely true at the time of his nerf). Followed by 'how could they have countered Gambit with another character without wrecking the game with an even more over powered one'.

What I said was if they had just waited a couple months more (after waiting almost 2 years), everything would have resolved itself naturally thanks to Kitty. She was the first character capable of beating Gambit. She showed it *could be done* without breaking the game. I'm not saying players wouldn't still use him, I'm just saying he was no longer the be all and end all because there was a path to new metas.

Since then plenty of characters like IHulk, Beta Ray Bill and so on have come along that also would have handled Gambit teams. In other words the game organically would have sorted itself out without the need for a nerf or breaking the game.

KGB

I agree with you that they shouldn't have let such a huge problem fester for *2 years* when a ton of players identified the issue within a few days.

I disagree that those other characters would've unseated Gambit.  Hulk would have, yes.  For everyone else, what you've failed to consider is inertia.  Players at the high end had Gambit at a very high level and they were used to using Gambit for everything.  There was no reason for them to change what they were doing.

The only thing that can unseat a strong character at a very high level is a change, or a character who's really good at a low level (like Hulk, who'd have unseated Gambit).  Otherwise anybody new wouldn't have a chance to overcome that inertia.  We see this today -- plenty of good new characters are deemed "DOA" because they're not immediately better than the best guys.

HoundofShadow

I don't see how a 450 meta game is any different from a 550 meta game, as far as using non-meta character to beat them is concerned.

Here is the mathematical proof of it. I'm going to pick 1 prominent power, their strongest match damage and hp at 450 and 550 level.

Gamora
450 / 550
HP: 69186 / 149532
Red match-3: 2865 / 6189
Yellow power: 10018 / 21653

Wanda
450 / 550
HP: 59890 /129441
Purple match-3: 2835 / 6126
Green repeater: 1970 / 4258 per charge

Test 1: number of match-3 needed to down 450/550 Wanda

450 Gamora: 59890 / 2865 = 20.9
550 Gamora: 129441 / 6189 = 20.9

Test 2: number of Gamora's yellow power needed to down 450/550 Wanda

450 Gamora: 59890 / 10018 = 5.97
550 Gamora: 129441 / 21653 = 5.97

As you can see, there isn't any different at all as far as the number of matches or number of fire powered needed to down Wanda at both 450 and 550 level. Therefore, if a 450 Electro can down 450 Wanda effectively, likewise, a 550 Electro can also down 550 Wanda effectively.

entrailbucket

Nobody has a 550 Electro.  When Electro is boosted to 550, we can use her to beat SW (but not as easily as your theorycrafting indicates).

ThaRoadWarrior

Bad said:

ThaRoadWarrior said:

I’m not so sure some of y’all know how to play Okoye the way people talk about how she loses team up when not tanking because you are choosing to match other colors. You put her out with a passive damager specifically so you won’t be chasing other colors - you should only be chasing team up and yellow unless absolutely necessary. And even if she drops back for a turn or two, you are only losing a single team up. Imagine moving water between two bowls with a cup. If the cup had a pinhole in the bottom, you wouldn’t be like “well, this is an impossible task…” you’d just do it and clean up the drips.

Okoye level 450 has 740/650/580 match damage. 
Yes, I would say she is pretty obsolete. 
Or is she going to be in front with those numbers?
Hehe I knew someone would jump when talking about okoye, even if I'm stating the truth. 

It's not about the match damage, it's about the Wakanda Forever bonus damage adding to whatever passive power you've brought. Even at baby champ levels she tanks Team Up over nearly anyone that isn't a boosted modern 5* since it gets a 90% bonus passively. So she is still good and fast with iHulk in PVE where it's only about offense. But other options exist, and everyone's options will certainly vary.

Pantera236

HoundofShadow said:

I don't see how a 450 meta game is any different from a 550 meta game, as far as using non-meta character to beat them is concerned.

Here is the mathematical proof of it. I'm going to pick 1 prominent power, their strongest match damage and hp at 450 and 550 level.

Gamora
450 / 550
HP: 69186 / 149532
Red match-3: 2865 / 6189
Yellow power: 10018 / 21653

Wanda
450 / 550
HP: 59890 /129441
Purple match-3: 2835 / 6126
Green repeater: 1970 / 4258 per charge

Test 1: number of match-3 needed to down 450/550 Wanda

450 Gamora: 59890 / 2865 = 20.9
550 Gamora: 129441 / 6189 = 20.9

Test 2: number of Gamora's yellow power needed to down 450/550 Wanda

450 Gamora: 59890 / 10018 = 5.97
550 Gamora: 129441 / 21653 = 5.97

As you can see, there isn't any different at all as far as the number of matches or number of fire powered needed to down Wanda at both 450 and 550 level. Therefore, if a 450 Electro can down 450 Wanda effectively, likewise, a 550 Electro can also down 550 Wanda effectively.

All this looks good... on paper. There are top tier toons that on paper everyone said were trash. Come see me when a okoye Chavez team absolutely curb stomps your apoc onslaught team in one turn. Or you lose to a OML cloak and dagger team. Two things that actually happened to me. That is only two examples I realize, they are just the two that stick out in my head.

Daredevil217

entrailbucket said:

Daredevil217 said:

entrailbucket said:

Daredevil217 said:

DAZ0273 said:

I guess I missed something but I thought the answer was : none. I think Hound is right though that this comes down to definition of what "usable" is to any given player. I use all my 5* unboosted at some point, some more than others but they generally get some play. So from my perspective Switch is no more usable unboosted than Cable is. She is better, I am not arguing otherwise but Cable can still do a job.

Thank you for naming this.  The threads that this one is parodying have poll options, which I think would be helpful.  If this was included I'd choose Option 1: No Rework Needed.

I think the only time I have used Switch over boosted options was the first half of my PVP climb on the Sinister/Ock/IM40/Surfer boost weeks. I opted for a blue battery rather than playing blue overlap, but eventually switched to Ock/Sinister (despite overlap, because I find that scarier to stare down).

So all I'd really NEED is less overlap that week (which will happen naturally as characters are added).  What I'd WANT are buffs to those older three characters who are really the dregs of MPQ.  That'd about do it.

Lived experience matters.  Your theorycrafting, explanation of the 450 game, and speculation about the high level competitive metagame is interesting.  But most of it is just wrong, in ways that I and a few others have been describing. 

I'm telling you what I actually see, in the game that I actually play, and you're theorycrafting, and telling me that things I actually see are wrong. 

Try playing the high level game for a few days and see if you still feel the same way.

This is why the poll would be helpful.  I was speaking to my experience.  And in my experience she is already not used (except edge cases). So I would vote "no rework needed" had you chosen to include a poll.  That's all I was saying.  You might vote differently based on your experience.  Saying a 450 Electro/Ghost Rider can't beat a similar level Switch without actually trying is an example of theorycrafting.  What I am speaking to is my experience and telling you how I specifically would vote if you chose to add the poll that the other threads had (and you for some reason chose not to include).  Please don't misrepresent me (again).

You're right!  You are absolutely an authority on the low level metagame and I shouldn't have speculated about which low level characters can beat other low level characters. 

In the same way, you've spent the majority of this argument invalidating and minimizing my experience and telling me not only that I don't see things I actually see (we call this gaslighting) but that I must be an unskilled player if I can't handle theoretical situations that you speculate about.


I suspect that if I'd actually included a poll, the majority of the answers would've been "this is a NERF THREAD! GET HIM!" so I'm not sure that would've been a worthwhile exercise.  The only players who actually answered the question are the few high-level folks left on this forum that I know by reputation.  Everyone else just instantly shifted into attack mode.

These are examples of some of the things I struggle to understand. 

1) I never claimed to be an authority on the low level meta. Just stating what I see at my level. Even in my rankings guide I name my MMR and that it’s one man’s opinion. Now if I’m. Misunderstanding and you are saying that in your opinion you think I’m an expert on low level meta than thank you. I’ll take the compliment

2) If you feel anyone is attacking you, there’s a flag button for that. I also don’t think “GET HIM!” was a poll option in those original threads.

3) I probably have been invalidating your arguments but try not to invalidate your experience.  If you feel that I have I apologize.  I don’t doubt you see what you see. I did speculate on why that might be (ie people taking different paths than you and deliberately going all in on meta 550s), but in my arguments I have operated on the premise that what you are queuing is in fact real.  When you say “all my queues are Switch/Colossus” I don’t feel that you naming your experience is invalidating mine. Since I know that my intention wasn’t to invalidate, please point out where you felt this way and I can try to clarify. 

4) I didn’t say you were unskilled. You stated that certain things weren’t possible in the game and many others stated (and outright proved) otherwise so I questioned whether it was a skill issue or something you literally haven’t tried yourself (fair question to which I never got an answer for). I’m open to a third option as well, but was asking questions, not making definitive statements.  Also said IF that were the case, people provided suggestions. 

One thing I’m confused on is if this discussion is JUST about high level play and the top 1% of the 1%? If so,  you should have specified that you are only interested in hearing from that subset of the playerbase. Would have cleared up more of what you’re looking for.

Finally, I’m sorry if I triggered you in some way.  I’ll try to be more sensitive to your feelings as you are feeling attacked, gaslit, minimized, invalidated, and that people are out to get you. I’m by no means agitated and actually like the debate. But if I’m upsetting you or you are only interested in the experience of high level players, I’ll see myself out. No hard feelings on this end.

If you want to continue to talk about me personally, please feel free to PM me

entrailbucket

Well, it's a little hard not to feel that way when one posts a question, then several players including yourself immediately ignore that question and move directly to personal attacks at the poster's intentions and skill level.

I'm not qualified to comment on the metagame at much lower tiers like yours.  I haven't played at that level in...ever.  I've played at the top of the competitive metagame since the first few months the game existed, so everything I'm saying naturally includes that bias.  I apologize for not making that more clear.

A number of other players read the original question and answered it.  You read the question and chose to attack the poster's experience, motivations, and understanding of the metagame. 

It appears that your answer was "Scarlet Witch is already unusable unless boosted." Why not just post that?  What about that question triggered you so strongly?

Daredevil217

Again, EB, if you felt attacked, I apologized.  But the intention wasn't to attack.  From the jump I named that I was trying to clarify where the problem is.  I thought it was clear that she doesn't appear problematic at my level, but I guess I should have been more explicit.  I love Hound's math because I was starting to think the characters don't scale proportionately, or that crits drop more frequently at 550 than 450.  My question is fighting a 450 with a 550 the same as fighting a 550 with a 650? Hound, get on that!

I also told you I enjoy this conversation and don't feel triggered at all (that might be a projection).  I'm trying to be more sensitive to your feelings going forward.  It's a discussion board.  I like to discuss the root of problems (again, one last time, I apologize if that triggered, and I don't mind discussing the personal back and forth over PM as to not derail the topic of the thread).

I think if you had a public poll like the other threads, that would have been helpful for you to know where people stand.  I feel that people have been pretty transparent about their experiences, but that could be helpful if you plan to do more in the future.

ViralCore

Pantera236 said:

https://youtu.be/WprUCQgP8Rw

Do you really think 450 Electro can beat 450 SW/Colossus?  Have you tried this?

She can't. She should be able to, easily. That's the entire problem.

Seems possible 🤷‍♂️

Rather disingenuous to talk about the pick-2 meta than post a video of a pick-3 match

entrailbucket

ViralCore said:

Pantera236 said:

https://youtu.be/WprUCQgP8Rw

Do you really think 450 Electro can beat 450 SW/Colossus?  Have you tried this?

She can't. She should be able to, easily. That's the entire problem.

Seems possible 🤷‍♂️

Rather disingenuous to talk about the pick-2 meta than post a video of a pick-3 match

Maybe someone can post some videos of what happens when you attack a 550 SW/Colossus combo with a 450 Electro.

ViralCore

Bad said:

By the way SW is not so great. She is a great character for to synergy, but she by herself is all but great.
As a SW user since her release, if she is the last character standing I can swear how miserable she can turn you in, hoping for big cascades on enemy turn but at the same time hoping they don't match her repeater, because that's is only the weapon she has, or matching a lot of blue for her hex, and then hoping for big cascades but at the same time repeater and cd not being matched.
Not the best performance for a candidate to getting nerf!

Remind me which event uses only 1 character?

Pantera236

ViralCore said:

Pantera236 said:

https://youtu.be/WprUCQgP8Rw

Do you really think 450 Electro can beat 450 SW/Colossus?  Have you tried this?

She can't. She should be able to, easily. That's the entire problem.

Seems possible 🤷‍♂️

Rather disingenuous to talk about the pick-2 meta than post a video of a pick-3 match

See my second video comment. And to be clear I'm not against EB here. His post was a thought experiment, as also previously stated, and my video posts were in line with that. I'm actually regretting doing them as people keep citing them in their arguments.