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entrailbucket

Sekilicious said:

entrailbucket said:

I guess if you think that tokens are a better reward than specific shards and covers, that would be a good argument for keeping things the way they are.  I think that's a pretty unpopular opinion, though.

You must not have read the Ultron thread. 

That's a totally different problem, and one I wish they'd address...except I have no idea how they'd do that.

See, right now they *pretend* all characters at a tier are equal in value, even though we know they're definitely not.  In legendaries and heroics, for example, you have the same chance at every 4*, even though Polaris is much more valuable than Talos.  Every event rewards the same amount of covers and shards, even though 250 shards of Okoye is significantly more valuable than 250 shards of Ultron.

The best fix is just to make a tier *actually* be equal value, but the amount of work it'd take do it at this point is probably not worth it.

Sekilicious

entrailbucket said:

Sekilicious said:

entrailbucket said:

I guess if you think that tokens are a better reward than specific shards and covers, that would be a good argument for keeping things the way they are.  I think that's a pretty unpopular opinion, though.

You must not have read the Ultron thread. 

That's a totally different problem, and one I wish they'd address...except I have no idea how they'd do that.

See, right now they *pretend* all characters at a tier are equal in value, even though we know they're definitely not.  In legendaries and heroics, for example, you have the same chance at every 4*, even though Polaris is much more valuable than Talos.  Every event rewards the same amount of covers and shards, even though 250 shards of Okoye is significantly more valuable than 250 shards of Ultron.

The best fix is just to make a tier *actually* be equal value, but the amount of work it'd take do it at this point is probably not worth it.

I’m not sure they pretend anything. They seem to have it so that there are 12 characters a year, 3 or 4 will perform better than the others, 2 of those will be in the same LL store, some will be considered awful, one of which will be place with the two in the store. Or maybe I’m over analyzing the Apocalypse, iHulk, Yelena or Colossus, Wanda, Cyclops or Okoye, JJ, Wasp releases. But the majority are mid pack that fill niches. This seems to a strategy to me, to fill needs for hoarders who only want meta characters and want them at 550 while skipping non-meta and collectionists that want everyone and everything. It only looks poorly designed or thought out if one doesn’t consider alternative viewpoints as also being correct. 

entrailbucket

Consider two runs of the same PvE: let's take Thick as Thieves.  One run gives out 250 Apocalypse shards in progression.  One run gives out 250 Wasp shards in progression.  

These rewards are *not* equivalent.  Apocalypse shards are worth much more than Wasp shards. But the amount of play to earn both rewards is the same.  That's what I mean when I say they're pretending the characters are equal.

The game treats both rewards as if they're worth the same amount, but the run that gives out Wasp rewards is functionally giving out *significantly less* stuff. 

If things were actually equal, the Wasp run would give out 300 shards, or 350, or whatever the power level difference was between the two.

Sekilicious

entrailbucket said:

Consider two runs of the same PvE: let's take Thick as Thieves.  One run gives out 250 Apocalypse shards in progression.  One run gives out 250 Wasp shards in progression.  

These rewards are *not* equivalent.  Apocalypse shards are worth much more than Wasp shards. But the amount of play to earn both rewards is the same.  That's what I mean when I say they're pretending the characters are equal.

The game treats both rewards as if they're worth the same amount, but the run that gives out Wasp rewards is functionally giving out *significantly less* stuff. 

If things were actually equal, the Wasp run would give out 300 shards, or 350, or whatever the power level difference was between the two.

I do get your  point and respect your opinion (actually the Wasp equivalent of 250 Apocalypse shards would be something ridiculous like 13 covers). But now we are talking past each other about different things, so I will end my part of the discussion here.  I will just add though that the only games I have played that try to balance the every character have very small stables (like 10 to 20 toons). And they are ineffective at doing so as there is often some synergy that no one took into account before release. None of the games that I have played with 100 to 200+ characters pretend any of the tiers can be balanced. 

entrailbucket

I don't think a game has to be (or ever can be) totally perfectly balanced.  Small differences are always going to happen and they're unavoidable.

MASSIVE, obvious differences, on the other hand, like between Apocalypse and Wasp, are both easily correctable and avoidable.

HoundofShadow

What if they allowed old 4* to be feeders of only unfed 5*, but they apply the original conditions that caused shardmas. The only difference is that players are made known of this conditions in advance. The other alternative is to wait for new 4* to be a feeder. You can't have the best of both world now, so what's your choice?

Phumade

https://www.pcgamesn.com/league-of-legends/balance

Why not give modifiers based on the scl bracket you join?  Since scl 10 gives better rewards,  they get no modifiers, vs scl 8 players who get significantly worse rewards, but enjoy some bonus event modifier.  Yes there will be players that tank lower, but effectively get lower rewards.

So you would realistically see SCL 8 brackets with higher scores than scl 10 brackets, but have lower rewards as a consequence.  

There would be severe implications in how alliance commanders run season brackets.  but in a sense many commanders already tell members, we need you in scl 10 pve because of higher possible points etc.

In many respects I think too many players goto scl 10 and get burned out with higher difficult and a higher pace of play soley because of rewards not because its a better challenge or play experience.

We should be incentivizing players to go find the best play experience first, then optimize if better rewards or alliance obligations are worth the frustration of a higher scl where more players will push/hop for higher scores etc.

dianetics

My sg tells players to run at 110%+ of their slice and bracket. It works out pretty well always top 100 sometimes top 50 for pve. Just get everyone to push past progression.
I run scl10 almost all the time, but if I know i wont have extra time and im not interested in the rewards i will run at scl 9 or 8

Phumade

dianetics said:

My sg tells players to run at 110%+ of their slice and bracket. It works out pretty well always top 100 sometimes top 50 for pve. Just get everyone to push past progression.
I run scl10 almost all the time, but if I know i wont have extra time and im not interested in the rewards i will run at scl 9 or 8

If your having fun in scl10. Then stay there and go for it.  If your only their because your alliance commmamder said so or to help the team,  then seriously consider if the next lower scl is a better experience/ more fun and let’s you do cooler things with your roster.

i.e.  most players can always winfinite with brb/polaris/ 3* thanos 1* jugs and finish the scl10 CN.  But is that an objectively fun play experience vs using other combos that let you enjoy different parts of your roster?

in my case SC/onslaught/sighclops is a fun way to play a lot of tile mover nodes.  But it’s not always the fastest way to play those nodes.  In the absence of my alliance commander saying I need more points and a faster clear,  I will use the funner team vs asking around about whose fastest based on the current boost week

entrailbucket

If my alliance commander told me I had to do something I would graphically describe exactly where he should shove that request.

Venomous

Hey. I'm not sure to maintains the spreadsheet but I wanted to say. Doesn't Hulkling feed Scarlet Witch? The spreadsheet says that Hulkling doesn't which isn't right, right?