HoundofShadow said: The main point is, you and the dev has different ways of handling cheating.You think that, with screenshot, conversation etc, it's sufficient to get someone banned for cheating quickly or immediately. Put yourself in the shoe of the other party. They will likely ask, "how can I verify that those evidences are authentic and not doctored?" The answer is there's no reasonable way they can verify those conversations are authentic because there's a possibility that you have two accounts and you are talking to yourself.Let's break things down. In order to prove that the accused in question is using the particular MPQ IGN and particular LINE id, the dev need to be able to prove that the MPQ IGN, Line ID, email, phone number and conversations and whatever belong to the same person. In order to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, it will involve contacting LINE, the accused's telecom provider, some other methods of verification to prove that the accused and the holder of all these accounts are the same person. They banned your account because you proved to them you are the holder of the hacked account and you have shown them how it was done. However, this doesn't mean that the accused done the same thing. They will need to go through their system and look at the metrics or variables to determine if it's congruent with what you said.I don't condone hacking and I understand that it's infuriating that someone hasn't gotten the punishment they deserve and they are taunting and laughing in your face. Unfortunately, it's going to take them some time for them to do the right thing.
DAZ0273 said: HoundofShadow said: The main point is, you and the dev has different ways of handling cheating.You think that, with screenshot, conversation etc, it's sufficient to get someone banned for cheating quickly or immediately. Put yourself in the shoe of the other party. They will likely ask, "how can I verify that those evidences are authentic and not doctored?" The answer is there's no reasonable way they can verify those conversations are authentic because there's a possibility that you have two accounts and you are talking to yourself.Let's break things down. In order to prove that the accused in question is using the particular MPQ IGN and particular LINE id, the dev need to be able to prove that the MPQ IGN, Line ID, email, phone number and conversations and whatever belong to the same person. In order to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, it will involve contacting LINE, the accused's telecom provider, some other methods of verification to prove that the accused and the holder of all these accounts are the same person. They banned your account because you proved to them you are the holder of the hacked account and you have shown them how it was done. However, this doesn't mean that the accused done the same thing. They will need to go through their system and look at the metrics or variables to determine if it's congruent with what you said.I don't condone hacking and I understand that it's infuriating that someone hasn't gotten the punishment they deserve and they are taunting and laughing in your face. Unfortunately, it's going to take them some time for them to do the right thing. Again...stop with the beyond reasonable doubt! I don't disagree too much otherwise but the burden of proof you are talking about is a criminal one whereas this would clearly be a breach of terms of service/contract. Unless there was some world wide MPQ cartel smuggling CP for drugs or something...
Phumade said:So there is plenty of precedent to make arbitrary and capricious decisions on who's allowed to post etc... and we can either accept it or simply leave.I distinctly remember when tapping was a thing and the developers UNILATERALLY decided that they didn't want that play behavior in the game and changed how nodes refreshed points.
HoundofShadow said: Burden of proof is required if it's reasonable enough, regardless of whether it is a criminal case or not. Can you imagine getting setup with that kind of flawed and one-sided evidences? I've already pointed out the loopholes in his evidences and any reasonable person would see those as loopholes. The only way that his evidences can be substantiated is when the dev check it against their system. Then, it is up to the dev to decide how they want to solve the cheating problems. If they chose not to solve it, then they will simply shutdown due to poor revenues.It's the same thread every few months:Someone from the LINE community come to the forum to create threads about cheating, talked about how unhappy and toxic the "community" had become due to cheating and how the devs are doing nothing. After the dev solves the particular cheating/exploits, these players go back and hide in their caves, until another exploits get discovered. Rinse and repeat. The funny thing is these players are also the one who hack the game and datamine info.
Bad said: Phumade said:So there is plenty of precedent to make arbitrary and capricious decisions on who's allowed to post etc... and we can either accept it or simply leave.I distinctly remember when tapping was a thing and the developers UNILATERALLY decided that they didn't want that play behavior in the game and changed how nodes refreshed points. In this forum there are rules wich allow users to fully expressate in a civic way.The mod throws warnings and if the one receiving doesn't hear them, he is banned. So easy as that.I think you are wrong in your approach that cheaters are stealing: they are not stealing because they won't pay money. The risk at being sandboxed makes it useless all the cheating they can do.Devs changing unilaterally is pretty ok: the game is theirs, and not of the ones competing in the tops. Also a reminder that they know everything and they track everything at all tiers. Possibly the tier that you are playing is not the tier that the most people playing is at. So there could be issues wich need to be changed.Finally I have an interesting question for to change perspective a bit: Do you think people waiting staring at spreadsheets are not cheating? Because I am not so sure of the answer.
Bad said: Another question: was the game conceived for to announce turns on Line for gaining points on pvp? Isn't that another way of cheating?And the buyclubs?Obviously that cp hack must be punished, but looking at this thread it seems everyone is a saint and never took advantage of anything. For to have a fair play all these things should be forbidden, imo. It is possible? I'm not sure of it another time.
Phumade said: I fully endorse you starting a 2 new threads to hone in on those topics.
Bad said: Phumade said: I fully endorse you starting a 2 new threads to hone in on those topics. I don't think those topics are so extrinsic to this theme, and I was just pointing out that devs cannot fix all the things we players think out for "bending the rules".In any way the topic on this thread has been already exposed and the outcome scapes from our hands.
HoundofShadow said: I'm referring to those LINE players who only come to post in the forum when they need to rally support against developers. You hardly see them posting in character discussion threads etc. All these discussions are probably held in LINE because they already knew their abilities two months in advance.Players exploits the game mainly to give themselves an advantage. I don't think those players in LINE who datamine info are any different. It's just the lesser of two evils. Also, it seems like there are a lot of "politics" in SCL 10 T5 or maybe T10 placement, and this is something that most of your players won't see. As a matter of fact, none of them knows that you guys coordinate in LINE and rotate season placement rewards among yourselves.Anyway, cheating is for losers and it's up the developers to determine how losers get dealt with.