Make an argument when to pull if you want Shang-Chi

tonypq

For anyone who wants Shang-Chi and has yet to start pulling....

When do you all think is the best time to pull for him regarding the current or soon/future to rotate trio of 5s in the LL store ?

If I understand correctly Electro will rotate out for Ultron. I'm not sure which of those two I like more or would actually use. Then the next rotation would be Odin leaving for Gamora, also not sure which of these two I'd like more. However I don't think I'd want to pull when it's Shang/Ultron/Gamora personally. 

Electro- She's not a bad character at all, not a must have but she's decent. Her green deals decent damage+board shake for the AP. Her black deals good damage for the cost and more depending on TU tiles present, the damage reduction is a nice bonus if on a all villain team. Her yellow will have it's uses, the strike tile and yellow AP is nice. I don't think I'd pick her over any other characters I currently use, but she's fun and her powers are all pretty decent, should be fun boosted. 

Odin- Lot of people seem down on him. I feel like too many are trying to find the perfect team to build around him, or are focusing too hard on how to make him shine on his own in PVE or PVP. Like many I'm certainly disappointed that Odin finally gets released and doesn't pack much punch, but I still think he's a really good and unique support/niche character. He's still pretty interesting IMO and brings something to the table most other characters don't especially in *5 land. Of course he'll never be an ideal teammate in any pick 2s most occasions, but his tanking big hits and damage reduction when fortified tiles are on board is still very nice. I could see myself using him often enough in challenge nodes and such. He's got decent enough health as well that he'll be quite annoying when boosted. His blue could be handy as well boosting everyone's cover levels when you meet the conditions. In quite a few scenarios he might save you a lot of health packs as well, if you're doing some PVE or PVP clears where you you already have two powerhouse characters that stand on their own and can afford to bring Odin along. I think out of Electro/Odin/Ultron/Gamora, Odin might be the one I'd actually use most often.

Ultron- I can't see myself using Ultron much, his blue isn't too bad but his other abilities are straight trash IMO. The only use I feel I'd get from Ultron is when he's boosted, or when I run maybe Kitty/4Rocket and want someone with more health and match damage then Polaris for some reason. I do think he can be fun with 5Carnage and a few others. Just another sad and poorly released *5, Ultron and Knull will both go down as the two biggest letdowns for me in 2021. Ultron could have been designed to be way cooler then what we got, especially with some cool abilities the enemy bots have that could have been borrowedin some fashion. 

Gamora- As far as Gamora, I'm not a big fan. To me there is a slight saving grace that her powers are fairly cheap and all deal damage which is nice, especially when boosted. Her red is ok for wave missions but aside from that is meh. Her black just seems like an annoying mini game to me and not worth the effort, especially when other characters may have a black that makes more sense to use. She doesn't have a lot health either and could be taken out fairly quickly where you can't even get off the bonus damage. Her yellow is nifty although repeater tiles are very lame and get matched or destroyed way too easily. The stun component is weak as well at just one turn. Overall she's not terrible IMO, just can't see myself forcing her onto any of my teams over other characters I already use. 

I'm interested to hear some opinions you all have. For me I do SCL 10 PVE/PVP. I don't really play for hardcore placement, but I do all the PVE clears and usually PVP to get the 10 CPs. My champed 5s are Apoc, Kitty, BRB, Colossus, Switch, Captain Marvel, Thanos, Doom, Knull, ProfX, OML, Carnage, Hela, Okoye, Panther, Thor, Strange, and Ihulk under leveled w/13 covers. 

I personally think Shang/Ultron/Odin isn't a terrible trio of 5s and likely the trio I'd want to pull if going after Shang. Although each pull I'd make I wouldn't be able to help cringe a bit knowing how much of a letdown Ultron is. I think I'd get more use out of Odin than Electra or Gamora, I just feel Odin is unique enough especially at the *5 level that he'd have more uses for me than Electra/Gamora. Any team I'd have Electra/Gamora in, I feel like unless I'm missing a color, I'd rather be using one of the other characters abilities. I can see myself wanting to use Odin to tank in some cases or simply just be a meat shield and take hits to protect others. He could also make some fun combos with other defensive characters we have now or may get get in the future. I think he has quite a bit potential to fit nicely in teams with some new characters we may get down the road. 

Borstock

I haven't found a reason to run with Electro or Odin. I've tried. If it's there, it has eluded me thus far.

I'm as down on Ultron as possible.

Gamora at least has the power that nullifies offensive power reduction. I'm mildly interested to see if that works in practice. 

shardwick

I was high on Odin after his pvp event but honestly after having champed him he's pretty bad. The only upside is that he'll jump in front and eat a nuke. I started hoarding after he went into tokens and I champed him, and so I'm currently saving up for Shang Chi, Ultron and Gamora to all be in tokens. I kinda like Ultron although I wish he had invincibility or at least some condition that made him invincible. Shang Chi is amazing and as for Gamora I think she looks pretty good so far. 

Timemachinego

I've already got SC at 8 so my pov might be a little different; Electro is fine but I've had no luck drawing for her and I have absolutely no use for Odin whatsoever. I'll be waiting for the Gamora/Ultron/SC store to complete SC if needed. Ultron at least pulls his weight as an essential and while Gamora's abilities are still being balanced I think she's pretty interesting. They're definitely a PVE set though, so if you've already got a meta team like Hulkoye then maybe Odin is more interesting for his ability to be really annoying in PVP?

Tiger_Wong

Borstock said:

I haven't found a reason to run with Electro or Odin. I've tried. If it's there, it has eluded me thus far.

Elektro + Wanda is money. Especially vs Hulkoye. 11 AP (Wanda’s purple is 3, Elektra’s black is 8) and 7 or less TUP and you can one shot a bunch of full health 5* characters. 

Odin + Heimdall seems to work only as a helper duo to protect, heal, and speed up another character who shoots a bunch of damage (Like Ronan, Apoc, Shang-Chi, and Havok…. Maybe Gamora too?) As someone smarter than me already said, Odin isn’t a character you build a team to feature. He’s a support character….. strange as that may seem to anyone who’s read Thor comics. 

entrailbucket

You're going to get a lot of different answers, but honestly, all of your choices here are pretty mediocre and I don't see much difference.  Ultron is likely quite bad, but everyone else is about the same level of situationally usable.

Flip a coin?

LavaManLee

My thought on this is that if you like Shang-Chi, and everyone else is a bit "meh", then I would try to get him champed as quickly as possible so you can enjoy using him in the game.  No reason waiting a couple of months when you could use him sooner.

VizMantis

entrailbucket said:

all of your choices here are pretty mediocre and I don't see much difference.  Ultron is likely quite bad, but everyone else is about the same level of situationally usable.

If everyone but ultron is situationally usable, wouldn’t that mean pulling now for electro/odin is the best bet to get the most usable characters?  I’ve been try to answer this question myself, and I was leaning toward ultron/gamora because gamora sounded slightly better than then rest, but maybe she’s not actually any more usable than electro or odin?  Or at least not better enough to justify wasting pulls on ultron?

entrailbucket

I guess if I was forced to rank them I'd go Gamora, Electro, Odin, Ultron.  All of them will fall into the "usable when boosted" category (except perhaps Odin, who has a very high threshold to jump in front when he's boosted). 

Ultron is definitely the worst of the group, but Gamora is probably the best.  A power boost ability is the best thing a character can do, even if her ability is very situational.

VizMantis

entrailbucket said:

I guess if I was forced to rank them I'd go Gamora, Electro, Odin, Ultron.  All of them will fall into the "usable when boosted" category (except perhaps Odin, who has a very high threshold to jump in front when he's boosted). 

Ultron is definitely the worst of the group, but Gamora is probably the best.  A power boost ability is the best thing a character can do, even if her ability is very situational.

Honestly, I don’t see myself using Odin or Ultron outside of essential.  So I guess for me at least, it’s just a question of whether I’d rather electro or gamora.  I agree with your assessment (barring any aggressive nerfs to gamora’s black) so I guess I’ll go with ultron/gamora and hope fortune favors me with a low pull rate on ultron.

SuperCarrot

I am also having this struggle. Really want SC covered and have been hoarding. My Electro is 1/2/1 with 475 shards, highly considering pulling now. I think Electro seems better than Gamora and Ultron, could be wrong. 

VizMantis

SuperCarrot said:

I think Electro seems better than Gamora and Ultron, could be wrong. 

Electro better than ultron seems a no brainer, but electro better than gamora seems a bit less obvious.  Care to elaborate on why you think that?  Not arguing for gamora persay, just trying to figure it out myself, as gamora read better to me.  But I also haven’t really paid much attention to electro.

SuperCarrot

VizMantis said:

SuperCarrot said:

I think Electro seems better than Gamora and Ultron, could be wrong. 

Electro better than ultron seems a no brainer, but electro better than gamora seems a bit less obvious.  Care to elaborate on why you think that?  Not arguing for gamora persay, just trying to figure it out myself, as gamora read better to me.  But I also haven’t really paid much attention to electro.

The damage reduction I am pretty high on. Her green is kind of fun for me because of potential cascades.  I honestly don’t have a good reason. Never easy trying to evaluate a character that has yet to be piloted. 

entrailbucket

VizMantis said:

entrailbucket said:

I guess if I was forced to rank them I'd go Gamora, Electro, Odin, Ultron.  All of them will fall into the "usable when boosted" category (except perhaps Odin, who has a very high threshold to jump in front when he's boosted). 

Ultron is definitely the worst of the group, but Gamora is probably the best.  A power boost ability is the best thing a character can do, even if her ability is very situational.

Honestly, I don’t see myself using Odin or Ultron outside of essential.  So I guess for me at least, it’s just a question of whether I’d rather electro or gamora.  I agree with your assessment (barring any aggressive nerfs to gamora’s black) so I guess I’ll go with ultron/gamora and hope fortune favors me with a low pull rate on ultron.

I don't know what else you've got, but I'm not sure anybody I know would use Electro or Gamora outside of their essentials or boost week either.  All 4 of these guys will be usable when boosted -- no one is *that* bad.

We're talking about relatively small differences in power level here.  Maybe pick the comic/movie  characters you like better, or try to predict who will get a combo partner in the future...or just flip a coin.

entrailbucket

*Additional disclaimer*

Shang-Chi is extremely powerful (he's capable of taking down the CL10 challenge node by himself) but a lot of people are really going to dislike the way he plays.  He's pretty unique in the game right now.

If you haven't spent a significant amount of time playing with him, you may want to do that before you commit your resources to him. 

MPQ doesn't have a return policy!

TheRiddler

I was planning on going Shang-Chi/Ultron/Gamora but after looking over all the characters and thinking about it from multiple angles.... I'm gonna go Electro/Odin/Shang-Chi.

Part of my reasoning there is that Odin>Ultron. If nothing else Odin has a passive with multiple effects, a higher health pool and some ultilities that could come in handy down the road with future release (unlikely but still).

The other part is that while I'm torn between Electro and Gamora I think Electro may have more future utility. Gamora has a red that I think is pretty good due to the team damage. If I want team damage I can bring characters like iHulk or Warlock and do it passively. Gamora's black is a nuke but it requires multiple hits of damage to set up and then the character to fire a power. The yellow power is interesting and could have uses against anybody with damage reduction abilities but is tied to a single repeater.

Whereas with Electro you have a green that is up to 3 rounds of board shakes which has multiple uses. Her black is a big nuke that all the setup is making sure there are x amount of teamup tiles on the board. Also has a passive where she takes 25% less damage for each villain on the team. Yellow's active is meh creating a 1k or so strength strike tile. But has a passive that negates up to 6k team damage and creates 5 yellow AP. Making this useful against any opponent that does team damage or anybody who is good with yellow AP.

To sum up. I think Electro has just as much potential utility as Gamora. Neither are meta so that's why I'm saying utility. And Odin I think has more than Ultron.

Then the final issue is that I already have 2 covers on Electro and 4 covers on Odin. So I could potentially get them all 3 champed quicker and save more pulls for the next hoard. Who knows potentially I could end up pulling for Gamora/x/x anyways.

HoundofShadow

Electro will be useful down the line against enemy with AoEs in special PvPs where the best usage is againt iHulk and Juggernaut. The constant feeding of yellow due to Juggernaut is crazy. I think one of the challenge nodes has Juggernaut? In PvPs, Okoye or iHulk boost week will be useful. I used Wanda with Electro and damage was reduced significantly. Choose yellow and your power are increased by 150% without much work. Electro's black already hits pretty hard. Boosted 150% and it's almost 90-100k damage depending on your level.

Think of Odin as an insurance to protect your other allies against nuke or big match damage. He's there for a peace of mind. The healings are like payouts to alleviate your pain a little and makes your team a little stronger.

Ultron will be good against goons + protection against low number of strike tiles on the board. Ultron will passively create up to 5 and Kitty needs a max of 5 on the board. Think of him as increasing Kitty's buff by 32% each turn. 

As for Gamora, they are still finalising her numbers. However, her power seems to target wave nodes or last full health enemy. Her yellow will be great in shield sim or other pvp with Wanda, BRB, Colossus or whoever running on the board. In pvp, where people are using Wanda/Colossus, you will use her with other boosted character to one shot Colossus or Wanda. Your match damage will be back to "normal" to after she put the repeater on the board.

VizMantis

entrailbucket said:

I don't know what else you've got, but I'm not sure anybody I know would use Electro or Gamora outside of their essentials or boost week either.  All 4 of these guys will be usable when boosted -- no one is *that* bad.

I’ve been playing since game release, but pretty casually.  I have pretty much all the meta 5s baby champed.  But only a few covers of every 5* in between.  I mostly focus on PvE, but for progression only.  I play pvp up to 13 wins for the 10 cp.  I hoard and can usually pull for latest 3 to baby champ every 6 months or so.  You’re probably right though, any of them will collect dust along with the rest of the meta adjacent 5*s I’ve collected.  Per your disclaimer, I think I’m sold on Shang chi.  He fits my play style of going for placement only and needing help with the later clears of challenge nodes.  Also he seemed like he was fun to play, but I can’t claim I spent a lot of time with him.

I guess my main reservation with going gamora over electro is that it sounds like gamora is more of a boon to pvp.  And as I mentioned, I’m way more interested in pve performance.  So far this discussion keeps making me think I know what I’m gonna do and then I read some more replies and then I don’t. 😝

dianetics

I already have Electro champed. She's pretty good and has made it onto one of my regular rosters.
If I didn't have her champed though I would wait for Gamora.
I think Gamora > Electro > Odin > Ultron
But I'm pretty low on both Odin and Ultron and I really don't know which character between the two is better or worse. I don't really see either of them making to any of my active teams. Maybe Ultron is a little better because he has partners, but Odin really doesn't right now.

Theghouse

If you don't have Wanda and struggle with iHulk teams, you want Electro.  Otherwise there's rarely a situation where electro will be better. Wanda does passive damage and her reduction works on cascades and multi hit powers not just AOE.

Odin is not useful.  In the age of god boosted 5*, he suffers from the same problem as all characters with damage thresholds, when he is boosted the threshold is too high to be met under desired circumstances.

Ultron is also not useful. You will never pick Ultron over Polaris.  Polaris has a cheaper, more reliable, and longer stun, has no limits on her SAP tile duplication unlike Ultron, and multiple sources of passive damage.

Gamora is yet to be seen but her nullification of damage reduction has the most potential of the group.  In the 5* tier alone it could be used to nullify BRB, Apoc, Kitty, and Rescue protect tiles, plus damage reduction powers of Wanda, Colossus, Electro, Odin, Prof X, Iceman, Panther, Heimdall, IM46, Kingpin, Sinister, even BSSM and OMDaken (maybe... the wording of their tile reduction powers makes their interactions tricky). The announcement post also said they are balancing her black power which triggers when a targeted enemy fires a power. Maybe they will change that to an instant kill (like 4* Gamora) which would raise her power level drastically.

So unless you are missing Wanda and really need electro to fill that role as an AOE damage reducer, I'd take a chance on Gamora.

Captain_Trips88

I have a similar approach to the game as you - PVE progression is main goal, and then I hit up PVP late in a slice to sneak in some placement rewards. I went all in for shang chi and have him at 2/4/5 and very glad I did. every SCL 10 node is winnable with him, as are most PVP fights - he offers no defence though so have to accept plenty of retaliation. 

I really don't think it matters who you get with him, if your goal is to use him a lot then there are better partners for him than any of these 4 so it becomes immaterial. Just start pulling for him and enjoy his unique play style.