***** Electro (Francine Frye) *****

Vhailorx

I don't think her black will play as good as it looks on paper.  38k for 8ap is good. But <7 teamup is going to be a difficult threshold to hit in practice (for comparison, how often does 2* daken not heal?).  And even if you could hit it reliably, GED has a self-fed black that hits almost as hard for +1 ap and that + true healing still isn't quite enough to get him into the meta. 

Electro's aoe reduction will make her a great pve tool though, and she will be borderline essential if ihulk or someone similar ever comes along (wish the cap were more than just a ~50% bump over quake though). 

Her green doesn't seem especially good to me either, as you have to wait 3 rounds and protect three different tiles just to get a vase damage ratio similar to apoc's red (with less multihit potential too).

I think she will be on the vast array of "good-but-noy-great" modern 4*s with a niche use.

Finally, is it thematically appropriate for a character that grows stronger with less "teamwork" on the board to also have a power protecting her allies?

entrailbucket

Yeah, friendly fire damage like Hulk's revival, Thanos's friendly team court death, Sentry's self damage, etc, can't be prevented or reduced by *anything*.  I'd be very surprised if Electro changed that.

KGB

RickOShay said:

Free of Charge - 5  AP
Francine grounds herself and drains the energy all around her, channeling the excess into the earth. Creates a strength 189 Strike tile in the bottom row. (Max level creates a strength 759 Strike tile)
(PASSIVE) Whenever an enemy power would deal damage to Electro's entire team, reduce that damage by 884 (to a minimum of 1) and generate 5 Yellow AP. (Max level reduces 3553 damage)

Unless you are referring to the 25% to 50% thing, which doesn't specify state 'enemy damage".

@KGB
@tonypq

Ah, yeah I missed that enemy power part. Makes her useless to team with Hulkoye then since she can't reduce his self damage and they are both heroes so they don't help her with 25/50% reduced damage.

Not sure who is going to make a good team with her in 5* land if you want another (or 2 for Sim) villain since there aren't many that don't color overlap with her are are worth using.

KGB

HoundofShadow

Her max cap for max reduction is only 50%. I guess it's a fair trade because it allows her to be used with wider number of characters, compared to just teaming her with only Sinister Six. 

Her black power hits for 38761 damage and two 5* can help her reduce teamup tiles on the board: Onslaught and Storm. If not, ask for 3* Magneto teamup.

The yellow ap generated can be used for Apocalypse instead. If you don't mind the lack of damage reduction, 5* Storm could work to generate more black tiles on the board so that you can quickly down the opponent with easy access of black power.

Her best partner is probably Apocalypse/Onslaught or Apocalypse Wanda against iHulk. I think she will be more fun for 4* players though, as long as they don't disable the interaction against 4* Juggernaut.

tonypq

RickOShay said:

Free of Charge - 5  AP
Francine grounds herself and drains the energy all around her, channeling the excess into the earth. Creates a strength 189 Strike tile in the bottom row. (Max level creates a strength 759 Strike tile)
(PASSIVE) Whenever an enemy power would deal damage to Electro's entire team, reduce that damage by 884 (to a minimum of 1) and generate 5 Yellow AP. (Max level reduces 3553 damage)

Unless you are referring to the 25% to 50% thing, which doesn't specify state 'enemy damage".

@KGB
@tonypq

Yeah I misread the description for sure. 

entrailbucket

If Scarlet Witch didn't already exist, Electro would immediately slot into the PvP meta as anti-Hulk tech, with Okoye/Electro as the dominant team.

The problem is that Scarlet Witch exists, counters Hulk better, and pairs with Okoye better, so I don't really see Electro having any role.  Aside from her yellow passive power (which, to be fair, is really, really good if you're getting hit by AoEs all the time) her kit is mediocre/average.  Characters like that just don't get used at all.

Hey, she'll probably be good when boosted +100 levels!

entrailbucket

BlackBoltRocks said:

SnowcaTT said:

Seems like everyone 'hated' iHulk (from what I have read on the forums, odd then that so many used that fast team and now we hear complaints that it is gone).

So no, one (SW) and two (Knull) nerfs aren't enough, let's make sure it is gone for good!

Next up: triple BRB (tile) nerf-through-character-release please!

How to nerf BRB via other characters? You need to stop him from creating Protect tiles at all. One way is to have a 5* with Th4nos' Blue.

The best is still a nerf to BRB himself. Make it so he only generates AP when his team matches or destroys Protects, not the enemy team. His blue countdown should only proc protects on enemy power damage. And unfortify the countdown tile.

There's plenty of ways to go at it, the tricky part is balancing the counter ability with the rest of their kit.  A BRB counter could have a passive that prevents all protect tiles from being created, or passively converts all protect tiles to basic tiles at the start of the turn.

The tricky part is: what would the rest of his powers do?  He'd have to be useful but he can't be too good if he completely shuts down another guy.


If they're doing actual counters now I really don't understand why they're continuing to pile on Hulk's corpse and completely ignoring Okoye.  Give us a guy with a passive that sets the enemy's TU AP to 0 every turn!

wymtime

After seeing the numbers I am saying 5,5,3.  Run with a villain and SW.  green should be decent enough with potential for cascades and multiple fires.  Black needs a villain but needs SW more.  SW will change TU and also reduce damage.  She will also give a boost to Electro active black.  38k direct damage will scale really quickly with a 5% boost for each AP.

yellow is just meh.  Strike tile is nice but AP generation is the same at level 3.  Also with IHulk less PVP meta it isn’t that necessary.

Bad

A nerf for brb? I thought mantis and morbius can counter him pretty good. Another brb and polaris can beat him. Colossus can erase his cotw tile too, and there is kitty.
If that was when he was released I could understand the need for a nerf, but what is the point now after 2 years.

Alex502

Did I miss some other Electro being released before some how? I'm confused why this version was chosen. Not really complaining, just thought that variants would come after the original version.

Daniel2121

DAZ0273 said:

So assuming the wikipedia entry is correct (and I have no reason to think it isn't), I just found out something interesting. It would appear that Green Goblin (Norman Osborn) has never actually featured on a team actually called The Sinister Six. His first appearance is listed as being the 6th incarnation but in fact is called The Sinister 12 because you guessed it, there were 12 members. Norman does not appear next until the 12th version of the group where most of these were holograms and they have far more members than 12. Then Osborn shows up again in the 15th grouping which has 60 members!

The only time he is ever part of a group which has 6 members are in alternate reality timelines such as Marvel Zombies and Spider-man: Into the Spider-verse where he is part of the bad guy team but I don't believe they are ever called by that name.

Did you look into continuities for other media, namely cartoon animated series?

Tiger_Wong

entrailbucket said:

If Scarlet Witch didn't already exist, Electro would immediately slot into the PvP meta as anti-Hulk tech, with Okoye/Electro as the dominant team.

The problem is that Scarlet Witch exists, counters Hulk better, and pairs with Okoye better, so I don't really see Electro having any role.  Aside from her yellow passive power (which, to be fair, is really, really good if you're getting hit by AoEs all the time) her kit is mediocre/average.  Characters like that just don't get used at all.

I’m really not seeing how Wanda counters IHulk “better” than Electro or pairs with Okoye “better” when

1) If Wanda’s tile gets matched/destroyed, you’re gonna take all that IHulk damage. Electro’s AOE reduction is a passive. 

2) Wanda’s purple is counter-intuitive with Okoye’s damage buff, as it’s taking TUPs off the board. But you could target yellow with it, right? For Okoye’s indomitable Spirit? Yeah you could do that and fire 2 powers to get what you want. Or…..

3) vs IHulk, you’re getting 5 yellow each turn for free with a passive and you don’t have to chase TUPs that are changing at the start of every turn. 

Vs IHulk, Electro allows you to have a character that goes with Okoye more naturally and passively and accelerates Okoye better. You don’t have to worry about RNG wiping out that precious (unfortified I might add) tile then getting cracked on for the rest of the turn.  With no reprisal, because her being an IHulk counter depends on that one tile. 

KGB

@Tiger_Wong- I suspect more people are running Wanda with Apoc against Hulkoye teams rather than running her with Okoye.

The benefit of Wanda is that all damage creates a charge into her tile so match damage / cascades etc all add up and damage gets reduced by large amounts as long as you don't lose the tile (as you obviously know and pointed out). Electro only helps against the initial AOE damage from iHulk and nothing else plus has low health and won't get any villain benefit with Okoye.

It's a trade off using one over the other. Electro is much more specialized than Wanda since her passive works against all damage sources.

I think Electro will get much more play in 4* land countering Juggs since she will be a lot more useful than Quake with her 5* match damage, constant ability to add a strong strike tile and Black Nuke.

KGB

entrailbucket

Tiger_Wong said:

entrailbucket said:

If Scarlet Witch didn't already exist, Electro would immediately slot into the PvP meta as anti-Hulk tech, with Okoye/Electro as the dominant team.

The problem is that Scarlet Witch exists, counters Hulk better, and pairs with Okoye better, so I don't really see Electro having any role.  Aside from her yellow passive power (which, to be fair, is really, really good if you're getting hit by AoEs all the time) her kit is mediocre/average.  Characters like that just don't get used at all.

I’m really not seeing how Wanda counters IHulk “better” than Electro or pairs with Okoye “better” when

1) If Wanda’s tile gets matched/destroyed, you’re gonna take all that IHulk damage. Electro’s AOE reduction is a passive. 

2) Wanda’s purple is counter-intuitive with Okoye’s damage buff, as it’s taking TUPs off the board. But you could target yellow with it, right? For Okoye’s indomitable Spirit? Yeah you could do that and fire 2 powers to get what you want. Or…..

3) vs IHulk, you’re getting 5 yellow each turn for free with a passive and you don’t have to chase TUPs that are changing at the start of every turn. 

Vs IHulk, Electro allows you to have a character that goes with Okoye more naturally and passively and accelerates Okoye better. You don’t have to worry about RNG wiping out that precious (unfortified I might add) tile then getting cracked on for the rest of the turn.  With no reprisal, because her being an IHulk counter depends on that one tile. 

It's really simple...SW has a passive that does damage, that is boosted by Okoye.  So you only need to match TU or yellow, and SW will passively kill the enemy. 

Electro's damage powers are both active.  So she'll feed Okoye yellow for indomitable spirit, but you need to match black or green tiles then actually cast powers to do damage. 

In this meta, active, unfed powers are generally unusable.  You might not like that!  I certainly don't.  But that's the game now.  If your team can't operate almost completely independent of player control, it's not good enough.

Tiger_Wong

@KGB I know why Wanda is a better overall character than Electro. That’s not the point I’m trying to make. My point is, with Okoye, vs IHulk, Electro is probably the better fit. Chasing TUPs and firing Indomitable Spirit should be easier. 

@entrailbucket having a passive that does damage is more of a help for Wanda. It doesn’t help Okoye at all. That’s why Electro goes better with Okoye. Wanda’s powers are buffed by Okoye. How does she enhance/speed up Okoye? She doesn’t. Wanda helps Okoye by helping her stay alive longer with the feedback tile. But Electro does that as well, reflexively, and she speeds her up. This ain’t about being a future meta character or team or whatever. I’m talking about Wanda/Okoye vs IHulk and Electro/Okoye vs IHulk. 

Or

Wanda/Hulkoye vs Hulkoye or Electro/Hulkoye vs Hulkoye. 

I think Electro will help Okoye better with similar damage mitigating abilities. 

On paper obviously. I gotta try it out. 

entrailbucket

Okoye...doesn't particularly need any help?  She has infinite HP so damage mitigation doesn't really matter.  She also doesn't really need speeding up.  She wants to be paired with someone who does passive damage every turn so she can boost it.

The only question relevant to the current meta is "can you win 100% of fights while playing this team without looking at the board/while mashing at it randomly?" and Okoye/Scarlet Witch fits that criteria vs Hulk while Okoye/Electro does not.

If you're talking about playing jank/off-meta/suboptimal teams, you're evaluating characters on a different axis than I am, and how other endgame 5* players generally are.

Tiger_Wong

entrailbucket said:

Okoye...doesn't particularly need any help?  She has infinite HP so damage mitigation doesn't really matter.  She also doesn't really need speeding up.  She wants to be paired with someone who does passive damage every turn so she can boost it.

The only question relevant to the current meta……

I never asked a question about the meta with Electro because that’s undetermined as she hasn’t been released yet. I don’t know why you keep bringing that up. Again. This is Okoye/Electro or Okoye/Wanda vs IHulk or Hulkoye. Or if you want Hulkoye/Wanda or Hulkoye/Electro vs Hulkoye. 

Okoye has “infinite health”? Gee. I wonder how that happens? Oh yeah! Because she activates her yellow to heal. How does Wanda help that in any way, other than counter-intuitively? 

She wants someone who does damage every turn passively right? Yeah. That’s what IHulk is for. And Okoye boosts that by matching TUPs. Wanda’s purple is counter-intuitive to that. Electro is not. She helps put more TUPs on the board. 

entrailbucket

Tiger_Wong said:

entrailbucket said:

Okoye...doesn't particularly need any help?  She has infinite HP so damage mitigation doesn't really matter.  She also doesn't really need speeding up.  She wants to be paired with someone who does passive damage every turn so she can boost it.

The only question relevant to the current meta……

I never asked a question about the meta with Electro because that’s undetermined as she hasn’t been released yet. I don’t know why you keep bringing that up. Again. This is Okoye/Electro or Okoye/Wanda vs IHulk or Hulkoye. Or if you want Hulkoye/Wanda or Hulkoye/Electro vs Hulkoye. 

Okoye has “infinite health”? Gee. I wonder how that happens? Oh yeah! Because she activates her yellow to heal. How does Wanda help that in any way, other than counter-intuitively? 

She wants someone who does damage every turn passively right? Yeah. That’s what IHulk is for. And Okoye boosts that by matching TUPs. Wanda’s purple is counter-intuitive to that. Electro is not. She helps put more TUPs on the board. 

Why would it be undetermined?  Evaluating characters is about evaluating their place in the metagame.  It's pretty easy to predict which characters will be used and which ones won't, based on their abilities. 

Okoye/SW will continue to be used against Hulk, and Okoye/Electro won't.  In fact, after her initial boost ends, we won't see Electro much at all.

Bookmark this post, and after her release, I'll happily admit I'm wrong, if I'm wrong!

DAZ0273

Daniel2121 said:

DAZ0273 said:

So assuming the wikipedia entry is correct (and I have no reason to think it isn't), I just found out something interesting. It would appear that Green Goblin (Norman Osborn) has never actually featured on a team actually called The Sinister Six. His first appearance is listed as being the 6th incarnation but in fact is called The Sinister 12 because you guessed it, there were 12 members. Norman does not appear next until the 12th version of the group where most of these were holograms and they have far more members than 12. Then Osborn shows up again in the 15th grouping which has 60 members!

The only time he is ever part of a group which has 6 members are in alternate reality timelines such as Marvel Zombies and Spider-man: Into the Spider-verse where he is part of the bad guy team but I don't believe they are ever called by that name.

Did you look into continuities for other media, namely cartoon animated series?

Goblin does not feature as part of the team in any of them that I can see apart from the Ultimate Spider-man cartoon where he is in version 3 of the group but I think that one actually has 7 members.

Bad

Electro could have her role on a apocalypse onslaught team(finally the villains mutant team I was mentioning, but actually one of the effective teams). She will get all her bonus, plus she covers the rainbow with her cheap green. 
Ranging form 1 to 3 her red cds and not repeating columns that means on 3 turns there will be pretty predictable shake boardings and onslaught loves that for having TU available.
Her black will extra damage with onslaught, plus she can provide yellow to apocalypse. 
And they can hit ihulkoye teams thanks to electro.
As it can be seen, not all the game gravitates around okoye.
Edit: By the fact in pvp Im seeing okoye is feeling pretty bad with the fall of her husband, and wanda is not consolating her lost.