Transitioning 4*->5*

shardwick

If I were you I would stay in 4* land, champ all of your 4s and slowly build up your 5s with them. Plenty of guys do that and are very successful at it and don't have a single champed 5 even though their 5s are fully covered.

ThaRoadWarrior

I was going to link you to my original Grand Experiment thread, which chronicled my experience transitioning with Ghost Rider Robbie Reyes in the Kitty/Rocket meta and how delightful that wasn’t, but it seems to have been unsearchably archives or something. Long story short - if you are used to your 4* float points and where you can walk away in an event without shielding and come back, assume you will no longer have float points with a non meta 5* for awhile. If you champ 2 5*s, assume you will only see single champs with a max-champ 4* sidekick. The good news is that your champable 5s are qualitatively MUCH better than GRRR, so you’ll at least have a playable team that can compete with most of the meta teams you’ll be matched against. 

fractalvisions

I often see the phrase "making the jump to 5* land". Should I take it from this that many players keep their 5* character levels low (around 270?) until they decide to move to 5* land, at which point they champ these characters in one go? Is there really anything wrong with "making the stroll to 5* land" (i.e. gradually levelling up 5* characters when you get more covers for them)? I now have 27 champed 4* (none higher than lvl 280) and have already levelled four 5* to 330 (Apoc, OML, Yellowjacket and Colossus) and didn't really notice an impact on the difficultly of my PVP opponents. I have enough covers on Yellowjacket to take him a little higher (up to 360 I think) but have been wondering if I should hold back on that until I have a few more 5* ready to go up too (preferably meta ones of course).

entrailbucket said:

There is always some very small degree of variation but mostly, if you're trying to win, and you can only use two characters, there is no reason to ever use anyone besides the best two characters.

I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head.
1. Wanting to save on healthpacks.
2. Variety. It can get a bit boring playing the same teams all the time. Besides, what's the point on having so many characters if you're not going to make use of them.
3. The sheer joy of beating a meta team with a non-meta team.

Jacklag

In the few times I did got to fight a Hulkoye team (even baby champed ones) I could agree with the statement there was no point playing anything else.

In 4*land, there was also no point playing anything but Juggernaut+GRocket until Polaris was introduced and there would be no point in playing anything but Polaris+GRocket if it wasn't for Sabertooth.

So maybe once Wanda and Knull start getting around there will finally be a reason to play something else.

Jacklag

Thanks for all the advice. I think I will start by champing the 6 4*s I use the most. If I don't regret that, I'll champ the one's that give 5* covers as rewards and move slowly towards 5*lánd.

JackDeath666

Be bold. Have ambition. Just do it. Everything will be faster, more fun and you'll be working towards high end play. Or just sell all your roster and soft cap your 1*s.

entrailbucket

fractalvisions said:

I often see the phrase "making the jump to 5* land". Should I take it from this that many players keep their 5* character levels low (around 270?) until they decide to move to 5* land, at which point they champ these characters in one go? Is there really anything wrong with "making the stroll to 5* land" (i.e. gradually levelling up 5* characters when you get more covers for them)? I now have 27 champed 4* (none higher than lvl 280) and have already levelled four 5* to 330 (Apoc, OML, Yellowjacket and Colossus) and didn't really notice an impact on the difficultly of my PVP opponents. I have enough covers on Yellowjacket to take him a little higher (up to 360 I think) but have been wondering if I should hold back on that until I have a few more 5* ready to go up too (preferably meta ones of course).

entrailbucket said:

There is always some very small degree of variation but mostly, if you're trying to win, and you can only use two characters, there is no reason to ever use anyone besides the best two characters.

I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head.
1. Wanting to save on healthpacks.
2. Variety. It can get a bit boring playing the same teams all the time. Besides, what's the point on having so many characters if you're not going to make use of them.
3. The sheer joy of beating a meta team with a non-meta team.

Ah, but I said "if you're trying to win."

If you're using a different team for any of these reasons, your main goal isn't to win, you're trying to have fun or save HP or mess with people.  Those are perfectly valid goals, of course, but they're not the goals many people have!

shardwick

fractalvisions said:

I often see the phrase "making the jump to 5* land". Should I take it from this that many players keep their 5* character levels low (around 270?) until they decide to move to 5* land, at which point they champ these characters in one go? Is there really anything wrong with "making the stroll to 5* land" (i.e. gradually levelling up 5* characters when you get more covers for them)? I now have 27 champed 4* (none higher than lvl 280) and have already levelled four 5* to 330 (Apoc, OML, Yellowjacket and Colossus) and didn't really notice an impact on the difficultly of my PVP opponents. I have enough covers on Yellowjacket to take him a little higher (up to 360 I think) but have been wondering if I should hold back on that until I have a few more 5* ready to go up too (preferably meta ones of course).

entrailbucket said:

There is always some very small degree of variation but mostly, if you're trying to win, and you can only use two characters, there is no reason to ever use anyone besides the best two characters.

I can think of a few reasons off the top of my head.
1. Wanting to save on healthpacks.
2. Variety. It can get a bit boring playing the same teams all the time. Besides, what's the point on having so many characters if you're not going to make use of them.
3. The sheer joy of beating a meta team with a non-meta team.

I would leave YJ where he is. He's fun and works well with Apoc but it's not like he's meta and will scare teams away.

Jacklag

fractalvisions said:

I often see the phrase "making the jump to 5* land". Should I take it from this that many players keep their 5* character levels low (around 270?) until they decide to move to 5* land, at which point they champ these characters in one go? Is there really anything wrong with "making the stroll to 5* land" (i.e. gradually levelling up 5* characters when you get more covers for them)?

I think the game is flawed in that regard. I'm not as old player as to remember the introduction of the first 5* (which I believe was Silver Surfer, good times I imagine), but I imagine there is a reason why there is such a huge gap in starting level from 4*to 5*. Most players back then probably had their 3*roster full of 266 characters and many championed 4*s so a new tier character starting at level 90 or 100 would probably feel less compelling to earn.

Nowadays when a new player gets a single cover 5* too early in the game the MMR system will start matching him against new opponents with champed or nearly champed 4*s which he won't be able to beat cause a single cover 5* is usually pretty useless. So I figure these are the players who quit the game for making the jump too early.

OTOH, 4* land is now so diluted that it takes forever to complete the tier, but even at few covers the newest 4*s are far stronger that a champed 3*, even at a lower level. So the idea of playing a team of lower level than your maximum available must raise naturally as one plays this stage of the game.

This is my 2cp.

Srheer0

Jacklag said:

I have had my feet firmly planted in 4* land for several months now and it's finally become boring. I softcap my 4*s unchampioned as to not increase my MMR above the minimum necessary, as not leveling any 5*s, even though many are fairly well covered. 

My gripe is that I also have all 4*s fully covered now and I don't have any reason to Target any 4* unless they are brand new, and even then it takes very few pulls to cover them.

I'm considering making the jump to 5* land, now that we no longer have the Bishop wall of old and the waves of Hulkoye tend to fane now that there are two proper counters (Wanda and Knulls). Although I don't have a Hulkoye of my own.

I have Apocalypse, Beta Ray Bill and Prof. X ready to be championed, plus 5*Carnage at a 1/5/1, Deadpool at 3/4/3, Heimdall at 4/3/1, Onslaught at 2/4/1, Thor at 5/3/1 and Old Man Daken at 4/2/0. A few less important 5*s are at one single cover. No Okoye and only 1 Black iHulk.

I could use some advice. Would I face too much struggle at 5*land, or could the benefits outweigh that?

Thanks all.

I was in a similar position to you some years ago. 

Meta was a bit different then (no Ihulk), and I had all the 4s champed. I had a Kitty with bad cover distribution ready to champ and held off for too long on making the jump.  

As soon as I champed her, I could easily get another 300 points per pvp event without much effort.  


Nowadays I have 25 5s champed, and in PVP I only use about 7 of them. The combination I find easiest to climb with, without taking too much damage in return is Polaris and BRB.

You might struggle once you get to 800 points (I always aim for 900-950 points). My strategy is to get to about 600 points in one climb from 0 when there is 48-24 hours left in the event. Wait for my free healthpacks to regen, then push to 900+ points. When I get to 700ish I start using blue AP boosts to get a quicker stun off. Shield when appropriate. The less time there is left, the more likely you are to get hit.  

Apoc, BRB and Pr5fX are all very good for pvp. Maybe not great vs Wanda teams. But strong nonetheless with their powers and passives.

Srheer0

Nowadays when a new player gets a single cover 5* too early in the game the MMR system will start matching him against new opponents with champed or nearly champed 4*s which he won't be able to beat cause a single cover 5* is usually pretty useless. So I figure these are the players who quit the game for making the jump too early.

Yep. I made that mistake in the first 3 months. Pulled a Gh5strider cover when Thor was in latest and my accomplishment was quickly belittled . 

DAZ0273

Jacklag said:

fractalvisions said:

I often see the phrase "making the jump to 5* land". Should I take it from this that many players keep their 5* character levels low (around 270?) until they decide to move to 5* land, at which point they champ these characters in one go? Is there really anything wrong with "making the stroll to 5* land" (i.e. gradually levelling up 5* characters when you get more covers for them)?

I think the game is flawed in that regard. I'm not as old player as to remember the introduction of the first 5* (which I believe was Silver Surfer, good times I imagine), but I imagine there is a reason why there is such a huge gap in starting level from 4*to 5*. Most players back then probably had their 3*roster full of 266 characters and many championed 4*s so a new tier character starting at level 90 or 100 would probably feel less compelling to earn.

Nowadays when a new player gets a single cover 5* too early in the game the MMR system will start matching him against new opponents with champed or nearly champed 4*s which he won't be able to beat cause a single cover 5* is usually pretty useless. So I figure these are the players who quit the game for making the jump too early.

OTOH, 4* land is now so diluted that it takes forever to complete the tier, but even at few covers the newest 4*s are far stronger that a champed 3*, even at a lower level. So the idea of playing a team of lower level than your maximum available must raise naturally as one plays this stage of the game.

This is my 2cp.

Single or low amount cover 5* MMR is a bit murky. I think the problem there is if you level it. 5* covers are unique in that they can be levelled straight away to 270 which is higher than max champed 3* MMR and level to baby champed 4* MMR. If you do that with three 5* you are creating a potential problem with your roster if it is otherwise baby champed 3* or lower. You are basically tricking the game (but not in your favour!). New players are never told this - I have advocated for years that there should be an in game warning that this action may affect PvP. I guess the Devs want zero information on MMR available to players.

I soft capped my 5* whilst I was gathering the covers for those I could champ and gradually raised their levels. Once I hit a certain point after a period of just gradually experimenting I realised that I was in single 5* MMR and at that point it just seemed no point in handicapping myself any longer when most of my queues had a champed 5* and high level 4*. What the above did though was give me time to put together the majority of the meta so I could transition with Apoc (thanks Milestones!), BRB, Kitty and Prof X with JJ and Cable as filler. I then champed Thor shortly after this and have a bunch of others positioned within champing range (including Okoye). Jumping with more than 2 or 3 champed 5* options gives you some level of flexibility so I don't have to double down on one team only.

As somebody who made the transition in February, here is my feedback: The only 4* I see is Polaris, with the rare R4G appearance (unless of course there is a featured 4*) so when you go, expect to go full. However, she is not really used if the enemy player has 5* options in my experience. 5* MMR can also be a bit punishing - whilst I can punch up with an Apoc/Thor team, MMR seems to stretch to rosters with 20 or 30 covers on mine as fairly standard thrown into the mixer and then of course up to 500+ if I break MMR and just stand there waving "Look at me!". However, there are also a bunch of other rosters that look a bit like mine too so it isn't like a constant being punched but you do have to work. If like me you also had a wide range of decently levelled 4's and you were cruising at that soft capped level, it is probably a short sharp shock that you are now basically a guppy in a tank that has some sharks.

KGB

Jacklag said:

I think the game is flawed in that regard. I'm not as old player as to remember the introduction of the first 5* (which I believe was Silver Surfer, good times I imagine), but I imagine there is a reason why there is such a huge gap in starting level from 4*to 5*. Most players back then probably had their 3*roster full of 266 characters and many championed 4*s so a new tier character starting at level 90 or 100 would probably feel less compelling to earn.

Nowadays when a new player gets a single cover 5* too early in the game the MMR system will start matching him against new opponents with champed or nearly champed 4*s which he won't be able to beat cause a single cover 5* is usually pretty useless. So I figure these are the players who quit the game for making the jump too early.

OTOH, 4* land is now so diluted that it takes forever to complete the tier, but even at few covers the newest 4*s are far stronger that a champed 3*, even at a lower level. So the idea of playing a team of lower level than your maximum available must raise naturally as one plays this stage of the game.

This is my 2cp.

When Surfer was released the championing system didn't exist yet so 3* topped out at 166 and 4* at 270 so a single 255 5* cover that could immediately be leveled to 270 felt fairly strong due to match damage + heath alone.

I agree that new players get 5* too early. A 5* should not be able to be drawn from LT's until you at least champ your 1st 3* character. The game should explicitly state that before they open LT's that they can't get a 5* cover so they know to hold on to them until they champ their 1st 3* (obviously they could still open at get 4* only if they wanted).

KGB