A question for veteran players

Akoni

A post by @PiMacleod regarding player desire against 6* characters made me wonder what players thought during the introduction of 5* characters. I started playing after the introduction of 5* characters. Furthermore, I didn't begin participating in the forum for some time after that. As a result, I have no idea what it was like for players when epic rarities hit the field.

Was there excitement or angst?

Did players welcome or resist?

Did opinions change after they arrived?

DAZ0273

You can get an indication here:

https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/32590/silver-surfer-skyrider/p1

Sekilicious

Awww 2015. Such a simpler time 

DAZ0273

When I started there were four 5* - Surfer, Phoenix, OML and BSSM. The interesting thing was how quickly things started to creep slowly and in a measured way in terms of how good they were - by the fourth release Surfer was already considered the worst one, yet he was better in every possible way than champed 4*. OML & Phoenix had synergy and BSSM had his niche anti-strike tile thing. Although OML's yellow was overpowered, none of them seemed game breaking and you had a bit of a rock paper scissors thing as Surfer could counter Spidey's cheap stun and Spidey could counter OML/Phoenix strike tile generation/spam and all of them could kick Surfer's butt.

So I guess it all seemed reasonable enough.

I think the true fear of a 6* tier comes from the idea that all that work and effort put into 5* characters will be a huge waste of time and to stay relevant you would have to start again.

ThaRoadWarrior

For me it would be how you aquire them. I think the closest thing we've seen to what I imagine they'll do is how you get supports - a vault that has N items in it with a single token to a store that's only open if you have tokens, and then that token only gives you some low random chance to get one...and then as we've seen with 5* characters already what happens if the character is a dud? Or if it's wildly OP? The other way you might aquire them would be via an HP store with infinitesimally low odds, like we already see on 5* release stores. Also I guess there is the cognitive dissonance we already have from street level characters or c-list characters dominating the meta (Okoye has no powers, but...) that will have to happen once 6*s show up. Like what if the first 6* is a tie in to Flaptain and Bucky? Like a 6* John Walker (lol)? Like mechanically that's fine, but at some level it's like "...."

DAZ0273

For years one of my biggest headscratchers with the 5* tier was not only did they make them hard to acquire, they didn't even give the player base a taster to want to chase them. A 5* release was just an empty gesture with a hand stretched out for CP. It was almost like they didn't want us to go after them. At least now we get several ways to try out a loaner and an actual PvP to test them in.

BlackBoltRocks

DAZ0273 said:

they didn't even give the player base a taster to want to chase them.

They did. When Surfer was released, there was a node in PvP where you could use a solo Surfer against Hulkbuster/Teen Jean/C4rnage, who were the best 4* at that time. Surfer made mincemeat out of all three of them; there was a challenge where people (including myself) attempted to intentionally make Surfer lose to that trio. OML had a 1v3 node as well iirc, but PhoenixJean didn’t.

Sekilicious

There kind of already is a 6* tier as the 550s greatly outclass the 451s. Especially the meta characters.  It is hidden in plain sight, there just isn't the uproar against them because people are happy calling themselves 5* players.  Apparently all you need to get a 550 is 1800 pulls from Legendary tokens or the equivalent special token. So, for there to be a 6* tier it would have to eclipse that, in terms of rarity (i.e. cost) and power. I cannot imagine how they would eclipse a 550 Okoye. Make a 1000 level Polaris I guess.  

DAZ0273

BlackBoltRocks said:

DAZ0273 said:

they didn't even give the player base a taster to want to chase them.

They did. When Surfer was released, there was a node in PvP where you could use a solo Surfer against Hulkbuster/Teen Jean/C4rnage, who were the best 4* at that time. Surfer made mincemeat out of all three of them; there was a challenge where people (including myself) attempted to intentionally make Surfer lose to that trio. OML had a 1v3 node as well iirc, but PhoenixJean didn’t.

Ah, fair enough, those three were just before my time although I knew about Surfer. Seems crazy we had so many releases after this with no real promotion apart from "Here is your CP store". I guess we got to fight against Cap & Iron Man in Civil War but all those PvP's we could have had with loaners to try out.

ThaRoadWarrior

There seemed like a real hesitance a couple years ago to do 5* PVP for whatever reason. There was at one point even a big announcement that there was going to be more (any) 4* pvps as well, which largely seems to have taken the form of release events rather than regular rotations. I don't know if there is a fear of MMR interactions with new players or what, but PVP seems like they really want to saddle you with low-level loaners, maybe for healthpack reasons? 

LavaManLee

This game boxed itself into a corner by overstaying its welcome (that is, it has lasted WAY longer than anticipated).  Most mobile games, you unlock a character (let's say at 1*) and can use them right away and then add resources to level them up to 2*, 3*, 4*, etc.  In this game, the character is given to you already at a * level and then you add covers to increase it and THEN you champ it and THEN you add more levels to it.  This is very different and puts them in a quandry.

ThaRoadWarrior

Champing wasn't even a thing until a few years into the life of the game as I recall

fractalvisions

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Champing wasn't even a thing until a few years into the life of the game as I recall

Yes, I remember when they brought in champing. I almost gave up on the game before that. Maybe I even temporarily did. I'd got a lot of my 3* to their max level and it was so hard to get 4*, so it felt a bit pointless. It was certainly a good thing that they introduced champion levels.

Kolence

We kinda already have a ~6* tier all but in name, due to power creep, both in abilities (especially passives) and in match damage and health. 

Warbringa

Kolence said:

We kinda already have a ~6* tier all but in name, due to power creep, both in abilities (especially passives) and in match damage and health. 

Agreed. The older 5* are the true 5* tier and the newer meta characters (along with a Thor and Okoye) do feel like 6* basically.  The difference in health and match damage alone set that distinction, let alone the ability of powers. You actually see some similarities in 4* tier too but at least more of the older 4* still can hold up better relatively to the newer 4* in that tier compared to 5* comparisons. 

ThaRoadWarrior

Which 5* was the first 6* to those of you saying that? Apocalypse?

Kolence

ThaRoadWarrior said:

Which 5* was the first 6* to those of you saying that? Apocalypse?

It's more a gradual increase thing. 

See the health of 4-stars, then starting 5-stars, and then compare with current 5-stars.

Apocalypse would qualify for my taste, yes.

ThaRoadWarrior

It’s easy to look at Colossus and Surfer, but it’s interesting to me to see the tipping point lol.

Kwahder

I think 5 star Carnage was the first with noticeably increased match damage, but Apoc was the first to have both match damage and health.

Bad

For a 6* calling itself rightfully a 6* it should feature rightful stats. It should have at least more match damage than colossus or AW, and more health than colossus. 
Lets say 12k match damage and 200k health. 
Following this supposition on 6* land playing with 4*s would be totally ridiculous as 3 cascades would kill a 4* in one turn.
And guess who would be the best friend of a 6*. Good old sighclops!
For not talking about the damaging powers of a 6*s.
No, I think it is not desirable the appearing of 6* characters as it would totally change the game as it is played now.
It should add SCLs or new pves. It would be a new tier starting from 0, without actually adding much.

However I think it could be positive new special characters addition being on better tier than existing 5*s but actually doing extra new things. Perhaps those characters could be focusing on affiliations, and adding new sinergies to the table.

HoundofShadow

If 6* is out, match damage has to be at least 4-5 times of latest batch of 5*. So, we are talking about 900*3*5 = 13,500. Critical hit would one-shot many baby champed 5*. Then, players who have so many champed 5* would probably quit.

If they restructure the differences wide gap between 4* and 5* for the sake of 6*, it's as good as putting lipstick on a pig.