The time for Buffs is Now

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

You can usually only make, at absolute most, usually 3-4 matches with it before you simply run out of blue on the map, though. Usually I'll only use it once, maybe twice, in a turn, and that's it until blue replenishes a bit. It's not infinite turns like Ragnarok used to be.

I agree that alone, his blue powers do not guarantee infinite turns. However, match that along with his red power, and you can get infinite turns by using his red to shuffle the board until you get enough blue.

Polares

Toxicadam wrote:

His blue is what makes him 'infinite turns' though. You can use it as an AP collector or crit tile creator and then it instantly replenishes itself. So, you never take damage, collect AP for other abilities, and you never relinquish your turn.

That's just not how the game is supposed to be.

Maybe it could work like GSBW's. Remove the defense aspect of it and have the blue create purple tiles, but increase the costs of his purple ability slightly.

Polares wrote:

Blue as random shield generator is a useless ability. If you do that you kill Magneto as a viable character

Not true at all. His purple is still one of the most powerful single-shot abilities in the game and his Red is still effective when paired with strike tiles (with a chance to cause cascades). It's a great way to finish off enemies that have low hps. Which is an underrated utility in this game.

Ok with Purple, but red will be nerfed for sure, so a character with 3 great abilities will be left with just one (or zero, because maybe purple will be nerfed too, see Spidey, they touched all his abilities).

And with just blue he is not 'infinite turns', he needs red too. Just using blue you usually get two to four lines in general. More if you are very lucky.

Unknown

Ben Grimm wrote:

You can usually only make, at absolute most, usually 3-4 matches with it before you simply run out of blue on the map, though. Usually I'll only use it once, maybe twice, in a turn, and that's it until blue replenishes a bit. It's not infinite turns like Ragnarok used to be.

Some of that depends on who he is allied with. If you run with Loki (in lightning rounds), Thor, GSBW or others that have the ability to cause major tile turnover, you can collect AP for their abilities and get another round of 2-3 blues off once the board resets. By then, with the amount of damage you've inflicted on the enemy you're just mopping up the battle at that point.

Cmag himself can turn the board over if you bank enough red before you start launching into your blue combos.

akboyce

Polares wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

His blue is what makes him 'infinite turns' though. You can use it as an AP collector or crit tile creator and then it instantly replenishes itself. So, you never take damage, collect AP for other abilities, and you never relinquish your turn.

That's just not how the game is supposed to be.

Maybe it could work like GSBW's. Remove the defense aspect of it and have the blue create purple tiles, but increase the costs of his purple ability slightly.

Polares wrote:

Blue as random shield generator is a useless ability. If you do that you kill Magneto as a viable character

Not true at all. His purple is still one of the most powerful single-shot abilities in the game and his Red is still effective when paired with strike tiles (with a chance to cause cascades). It's a great way to finish off enemies that have low hps. Which is an underrated utility in this game.

Ok with Purple, but red will be nerfed for sure, so a character with 3 great abilities will be left with just one (or zero, because maybe purple will be nerfed too, see Spidey, they touched all his abilities).

And with just blue he is not 'infinite turns', he needs red too. Just using blue you usually get two to four lines in general. More if you are very lucky.

Bolding by me.

It is true they touched all his abilities but they were not all nerfs.

His yellow was a buff for a low web tile board (5 yellow: 2314 versus 741 @1, 2314 versus 1482 @2, 3248 versus 2223 @3) (3 Yellow: 1602 versus 741 @ 1, 1602 versus 1482 @2, 2534 versus 2223 @3). Admittedly it now costs 12 compared to 11 to 9 but still not a pure nerf. This is a good change especially with how much harder it is to get web tiles.

His purple WAS a pure and unimaginable beating of a nerf. Until they fixed it. We see a 38 increase at the 0 tile level (104 versus 66). True they become worse at 1 web tile but this is a strong buff to him when paired with someone who uses purple and when you have something else you want to use blue for (Magneto perhaps?). I am not sure when it happened (and it is incorrectly listed on the wiki and his overview page in character discussion) but his maximum protect tiles has also been increased to 4 (from 3) at level 4+. This is a small buff but definitely out of the realm of pure nerf.

Now his blue was clearly a pure nerf but to be fair it needed it. Now it may have been a bit too much but imo better to over nerf than to have to repeatedly nerf. Every time they nerf they have to do the resale thing and it makes people unhappy. If after looking at the data they see spidey is now too bad off they can buff him which will be a good thing. So better to have one loud RABBLE followed by some hurrahs than multiple probably similarly volumed RABBLES. So they could touch all of Magneto's abilities without nerfing them all.

On the topic of Magneto I have to respectfully disagree that making his blue cost one more will fix it. Effective cost of 1 blue is still way too good for clearing a line and creating a crit tile. That fix also leaves the problem of how vastly different Magneto is on offense and defense. With stun lock spidey out of the picture Magneto now has the biggest difference in AI versus human performance resulting from his abusable blue (which AI cant abuse) and spammable red (which AI is limited to one per turn) and potentially wiffable purple. Its true other characters suffer from this a little bit but none to the extent of Magneto where the blue goes from game breaking to mild annoyance while his other abilities suffer mildly from it.

From a pure balance stand point and to bring the performance differences more in line I agree with Toxicadam's idea of pure random placement (probably with a buff to defensive strength). But I also agree that would DRASTICALLY change the feel and enjoyment players have from the character. He could still be viable and strong... but he would not be the Magneto many players know and love. Sadly that may be whats "best" for long term growth and balance of the character...

PorkBelly

The fact that everyone is basically making nerf suggestions in the buff thread is somewhat depressing to me.

So, I'll start-

Not original but give Doom a 3rd power.

Technopathic Strike could remove blue tiles from the board which would combat C Mags blue that everyone is complaining about.

You'd be able to level him to to 141 to increase match damage & he's already got pretty good health at 115.

He covers purple so that would make sense for the 3rd power & something that either dealt direct damage or weakened the attacks from the opposing team would both be good.

Giving other characters compensatory powers should always be prioritized over nerfing, in my opinion.

Nonce Equitaur 2

I'm actually liking the side nerf discussion -- because there is no consensus. Leaving Mags alone will not hurt the game. He's soft on defense.

On the Buff side, there is a huge consensus on which characters need buffs. Therefore, the time for buffs is now.

Unknown

Sorry for side-tracking the thread, but I feel like talking about buffs is beating your head against the wall. ((edit: Although, I guess speculating on nerfs is in the same category)). They are most likely not going to happen in the next few months (aside from X-farce), if ever.

The precedent with the Lazy Characters has been set. If they are going to bother making a new Loki/Doom ability or trying to 'fix' some of their two-star characters like Hawkeye/Bullseye etc, they are going to introduce a new re-skinned character instead.

Writing paragraph after paragraph of how they can 'fix Spidey' is probably the most pointless exercise ever. He's done.