The time for Buffs is Now

Nonce Equitaur 2

Based on feedback, I've adjusted the list.

SLIGHTLY OP: C Magneto

BALANCED: Cap, Daken, Human Torch, The Hood, The Hulk, Punisher, Patch, Ares, Magneto MN, Storm (Classic), Wolverine, Thor, OBW, Black Panther, BWGS, Psylocke

SLIGHTLY UP: Daredevil, IM40, Spider-Man, Doctor Doom, Moonstone, IW, Falcon

UNDERPOWERED: Loki, 2* Hawkeye, Bagman, Wolverine X-Force


It occurred to me that Black Panther will get a boost when Storm Mohawk comes out if she can collect environment tiles. The Hood would also get a boost from that. The Hulk has gotten a boost from the new Daken.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Based on feedback, I've adjusted the list.

SLIGHTLY OP: C Magneto

BALANCED: Cap, Daken, Human Torch, The Hood, The Hulk, Punisher, Patch, Ares, Magneto MN, Storm (Classic), Wolverine, Thor, OBW, Black Panther, BWGS, Psylocke

SLIGHTLY UP: Daredevil, IM40, Spider-Man, Doctor Doom, Moonstone, IW, Falcon

UNDERPOWERED: Loki, 2* Hawkeye, Bagman, Wolverine X-Force


It occurred to me that Black Panther will get a boost when Storm Mohawk comes out if she can collect environment tiles. The Hood would also get a boost from that. The Hulk has gotten a boost from the new Daken.

I liked your old list better, as in OBW and LT being overpowered. Of course I would still make some slight adjustments from my viewpoints, but the list is pretty much accurate in general.

Dormammu

BelligerentGnu wrote:

Dormammu wrote:

I don't believe in nerfs. Nerfing is lazy programming. What good games/developers do is buff the rest of the cast up to the level they need to be to compete, which the original poster suggested in most cases. That's what will add more variety to the game. Like the poster said, nerfing Spider-Man didn't suddenly force players to start using BP, Daredevil, and Model 40. Instead, we just see more Patch/Punisher & C.Mags, or Lazy Thor & OBW.

I was with you up to here. I actually think nerfing can be really healthy, provided A) characters have clearly defined strengths and weaknesses, and b) the strengths are strong enough to feel powerful. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I actually think The Hood is a really well designed character - very low HP and a low-damage skillset in exchange for *immense* utility. The Hulk is fantastic on defense, kind of a lump on offense. Patch is high risk/high reward. Etc. If you have a large number of champs with this level of power, then nerfing any particular one who gets too strong is much better than buffing everyone. It's more efficient, less likely to cause unintended consequences, and it keeps the speed of the game about the same. If you buffed all the weaker characters, eventually you end up with a game where matches end earlier and earlier, until there's hardly any tile matching going on anymore.

The problem though, specific to MPQ, is that nerfing isn't making the weaker characters more viable - it's simply pulling one of the popular-use characters out of the pool and reducing the number of characters everyone is using. It's narrowing the field, not expanding it. OBW was in 75% of my matchups in PvP prior to the Spider-Man nerf. Now she is in 95%.

Unknown

Dormammu wrote:

BelligerentGnu wrote:

Dormammu wrote:

I don't believe in nerfs. Nerfing is lazy programming. What good games/developers do is buff the rest of the cast up to the level they need to be to compete, which the original poster suggested in most cases. That's what will add more variety to the game. Like the poster said, nerfing Spider-Man didn't suddenly force players to start using BP, Daredevil, and Model 40. Instead, we just see more Patch/Punisher & C.Mags, or Lazy Thor & OBW.

I was with you up to here. I actually think nerfing can be really healthy, provided A) characters have clearly defined strengths and weaknesses, and b) the strengths are strong enough to feel powerful. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I actually think The Hood is a really well designed character - very low HP and a low-damage skillset in exchange for *immense* utility. The Hulk is fantastic on defense, kind of a lump on offense. Patch is high risk/high reward. Etc. If you have a large number of champs with this level of power, then nerfing any particular one who gets too strong is much better than buffing everyone. It's more efficient, less likely to cause unintended consequences, and it keeps the speed of the game about the same. If you buffed all the weaker characters, eventually you end up with a game where matches end earlier and earlier, until there's hardly any tile matching going on anymore.

The problem though, specific to MPQ, is that nerfing isn't making the weaker characters more viable - it's simply pulling one of the popular-use characters out of the pool and reducing the number of characters everyone is using. It's narrowing the field, not expanding it. OBW was in 75% of my matchups in PvP prior to the Spider-Man nerf. Now she is in 95%.

Don't you think that OBW isn't the problem, but that the lack of different color abilities besides green, red, and yellow is the problem? I think that 2* mags is the only other 2* with a similar color palette in the 2* range, but no one else. Release some other characters with purple, blue, and black, and then you'll see OBW use come way down once everyone has access to different colors and not only narrowing down one unique set of colors to one character, like OBW.

Dormammu

GT-47LM wrote:

Don't you think that OBW isn't the problem, but that the lack of different color abilities besides green, red, and yellow is the problem? I think that 2* mags is the only other 2* with a similar color palette in the 2* range, but no one else. Release some other characters with purple, blue, and black, and then you'll see OBW use come way down once everyone has access to different colors and not only narrowing down one unique set of colors to one character, like OBW.

No. I think it's because she's the only one with a viable heal that allows players to play for more than 20 minutes without having to buy healing packs.

Unknown

Dormammu wrote:

GT-47LM wrote:

Don't you think that OBW isn't the problem, but that the lack of different color abilities besides green, red, and yellow is the problem? I think that 2* mags is the only other 2* with a similar color palette in the 2* range, but no one else. Release some other characters with purple, blue, and black, and then you'll see OBW use come way down once everyone has access to different colors and not only narrowing down one unique set of colors to one character, like OBW.

No. I think it's because she's the only one with a viable heal that allows players to play for more than 20 minutes without having to buy healing packs.

So her colors, which other 2*s don't have and are by far the best abilities in the 2* category (even better than most 3* characters with the same colors), have nothing to do with her wide usage in the 2* and 3* category?

Unknown

Why not both? I mean hell, even among 3 stars the only two characters with those colours are Dr. Doom and LDaken - of whom one has 2 abilities, and the other has black/purple/green as strong colours. That, and there's also only 2 healers in the game, one of whom really isn't worth a slot anymore.

Unknown

BelligerentGnu wrote:

Why not both? I mean hell, even among 3 stars the only two characters with those colours are Dr. Doom and LDaken - of whom one has 2 abilities, and the other has black/purple/green as strong colours. That, and there's also only 2 healers in the game, one of whom really isn't worth a slot anymore.

Yeah, that's what I mean. Not counting 1* characters, their are only a few 2* and 3* characters with good purple, black, and blue abilities. We already have enough diversity of green, yellow, and red ability characters, now give us the same with the other three remaining colors.

Unknown

Dormammu wrote:

No. I think it's because she's the only one with a viable heal that allows players to play for more than 20 minutes without having to buy healing packs.

She's also effective AP stealer. Put that in the same bundle with her healing ability and you every single 2* and 2*/3* team using OBW in every situation possible. We definitely could use more of AP stealing or healing abilities in 3* tier. So far we have only Hood and Psylocke and **** Spidey for healing. No wonder OBW is popular, she is squishy with low HP but also has not only one but TWO highly useable skills (well, three if you can activate her black ability).

Unknown

Dormammu wrote:

Magneto is only overpowered when he's combined with a strike tile artist like Punisher, which is the new fashionable default tandem for PVP among maxed 3* players. Why heal when you don't have to take any damage at all? With red/yellow, green/black, blue/purple boosts it takes about 4-6 turns to get a 5/5/3 Magneto rolling enough to potentially take out the opposing team without them getting another turn (after strike tiles are out). A simple increase in AP cost (even as little as 1 AP) as the original poster suggested for his red and blue would go a long way to solve the unbalance.

Hmm, so are we trying to say that any character with a possible synergy is OP? Not trying to argue with you but just because there is a character combo that is OP does not mean that a specific character is (this effect is just as much the fault of Pun or Patch). Hood with Shieldbro is sick as hoods black allows cap to stunlock and hit for 3.5k every 2 turns. Neither of these characters has been considered broken.
I do appreciate the "neverending turn" point raised but any character like GSBW or BP can end any match in 1 turn with either of those 2 strike tile generators in play, difference being that it takes longer in play time to do it with CMags as you have to press more than 1 button.
I do use CMags in my A team so will try to defend him but would much rather see him in opponent team than BP.
Anyway this is just food for thought.

Unknown

Honestly I think if the company spends its time buffing the bottom of the list up and in some cases the mid tier as well you will have a much better reaction that the nerfs at the top only we've been seeing. Yes Thor is good. So is Magneto. But why not make them all good? Its a super hero game. Marvel Hero's another free to play game has taken this approach and its been working out really well for them.

No one was really happy with the spiderman changes you made. They were extreme. people get nervous when they see character listed as OP. people put real $ into those characters and are still continuing to. Make the other characters better. People will be happy. People will play more.

Unknown

repronaz wrote:

Magneto is only overpowered when he's combined with a strike tile artist like Punisher, which is the new fashionable default tandem for PVP among maxed 3* players. Why heal when you don't have to take any damage at all? With red/yellow, green/black, blue/purple boosts it takes about 4-6 turns to get a 5/5/3 Magneto rolling enough to potentially take out the opposing team without them getting another turn (after strike tiles are out). A simple increase in AP cost (even as little as 1 AP) as the original poster suggested for his red and blue would go a long way to solve the unbalance.

I think you are right when it comes to red. Its very good due to strike tiles. I'm not advocating a change because I think characters on teams should be good in games like this. However I wouldnt be surprised to see a change to it to bring it more in line with psylockes ap cost. (5 red or 6 black)

When it comes to blue I think just like spiderman increasing the cost breaks the power. Spiderman cant get out webs now to make the ability good. Magneto will be doing small amounts of damage for the ap spent. There are many ways they could change it without raising the AP cost but if the spiderman changes are any indication they wont spend much time on it.

LEAVE HIS PINK ability ALONE. Its needed to deal with the Hulks of the world when you have a low AP casting character like Mag that just chips away at hulk making lots of anger tiles. Mag needs a heavy hitting ability .

We dont need another massive nerf like SM to kill a character so fun.

Unknown

IMO these threads should just be about buffs. Not nerfs. This dev has shown they will look at nerf feedback and over react. We need to stop feeding the machine. Lets just discuss buffs.

Polares

Please devs buff XForce now, this is a must

Please devs nerf just magneto's red (leave blue alone). I think that what makes magneto OP is the combination of both, blue on its own is not that OP, is a very powerfull ability, but not more OP than Call the Storm or Rage of the Panther, and blue is the most fun ability in the game.

Unknown

Polares wrote:

Please devs buff XForce now, this is a must

Please devs nerf just magneto's red (leave blue alone). I think that what makes magneto OP is the combination of both, blue on its own is not that OP, is a very powerfull ability, but not more OP than Call the Storm or Rage of the Panther

I agree on blue. That to me is what makes him fun.

Unknown

repronaz wrote:

Hmm, so are we trying to say that any character with a possible synergy is OP? Not trying to argue with you but just because there is a character combo that is OP does not mean that a specific character is (this effect is just as much the fault of Pun or Patch). Hood with Shieldbro is sick as hoods black allows cap to stunlock and hit for 3.5k every 2 turns. Neither of these characters has been considered broken.

I do appreciate the "neverending turn" point raised but any character like GSBW or BP can end any match in 1 turn with either of those 2 strike tile generators in play, difference being that it takes longer in play time to do it with CMags as you have to press more than 1 button.
I do use CMags in my A team so will try to defend him but would much rather see him in opponent team than BP.
Anyway this is just food for thought.

Nah, C.Mags is broken beyond what any other character currently is. Strike tile generators just exacerbate it. It's not 'synergy'.

He's pretty easy to fix though. Just increase his red AP slightly (and add more damage) and make his blue tiles random (so they are defense only).

Will they do that? I don't trust them to.

PorkBelly

Toxicadam wrote:

repronaz wrote:

Hmm, so are we trying to say that any character with a possible synergy is OP? Not trying to argue with you but just because there is a character combo that is OP does not mean that a specific character is (this effect is just as much the fault of Pun or Patch). Hood with Shieldbro is sick as hoods black allows cap to stunlock and hit for 3.5k every 2 turns. Neither of these characters has been considered broken.

I do appreciate the "neverending turn" point raised but any character like GSBW or BP can end any match in 1 turn with either of those 2 strike tile generators in play, difference being that it takes longer in play time to do it with CMags as you have to press more than 1 button.
I do use CMags in my A team so will try to defend him but would much rather see him in opponent team than BP.
Anyway this is just food for thought.

Nah, C.Mags is broken beyond what any other character currently is. Strike tile generators just exacerbate it. It's not 'synergy'.

He's pretty easy to fix though. Just increase his red AP slightly (and add more damage) and make his blue tiles random (so they are defense only).

Will they do that? I don't trust them to.

If you make that change to the blue, the character becomes way less fun to play & would be relegated to the same status as post-nerf Spidey.

Polares

Toxicadam wrote:

repronaz wrote:

Hmm, so are we trying to say that any character with a possible synergy is OP? Not trying to argue with you but just because there is a character combo that is OP does not mean that a specific character is (this effect is just as much the fault of Pun or Patch). Hood with Shieldbro is sick as hoods black allows cap to stunlock and hit for 3.5k every 2 turns. Neither of these characters has been considered broken.

I do appreciate the "neverending turn" point raised but any character like GSBW or BP can end any match in 1 turn with either of those 2 strike tile generators in play, difference being that it takes longer in play time to do it with CMags as you have to press more than 1 button.
I do use CMags in my A team so will try to defend him but would much rather see him in opponent team than BP.
Anyway this is just food for thought.

Nah, C.Mags is broken beyond what any other character currently is. Strike tile generators just exacerbate it. It's not 'synergy'.

He's pretty easy to fix though. Just increase his red AP slightly (and add more damage) and make his blue tiles random (so they are defense only).

Will they do that? I don't trust them to.

Blue as random shield generator is a useless ability. If you do that you kill Magneto as a viable character, and break the most fun ability in the game. So I hope they don't do such a thing, but they will probably do (maybe buff the shield strength in return).

Unknown

His blue is what makes him 'infinite turns' though. You can use it as an AP collector or crit tile creator and then it instantly replenishes itself. So, you never take damage, collect AP for other abilities, and you never relinquish your turn.

That's just not how the game is supposed to be.

Maybe it could work like GSBW's. Remove the defense aspect of it and have the blue create purple tiles, but increase the costs of his purple ability slightly.

Polares wrote:

Blue as random shield generator is a useless ability. If you do that you kill Magneto as a viable character

Not true at all. His purple is still one of the most powerful single-shot abilities in the game and his Red is still effective when paired with strike tiles (with a chance to cause cascades). It's a great way to finish off enemies that have low hps. Which is an underrated utility in this game.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

His blue is what makes him 'infinite turns' though. You can use it as an AP collector or crit tile creator and then it instantly replenishes itself. So, you never take damage, collect AP for other abilities, and you never relinquish your turn.

That's just not how the game is supposed to be.

You can usually only make, at absolute most, usually 3-4 matches with it before you simply run out of blue on the map, though. Usually I'll only use it once, maybe twice, in a turn, and that's it until blue replenishes a bit. It's not infinite turns like Ragnarok used to be.