Another stealth reduction

MrPlow
MrPlow Posts: 240 Tile Toppler
edited July 2020 in MPQ General Discussion
Thanks to DyingLegend pointing out a change in progression rewards in the next PVE it looks like there is also a reduction in 4* shards in SCL 9 & 10 of 20 & 50 if my math is correct.  I think there is also a HP reduction in final placement rewards at least in SCL 8.

Comments

  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2020
    Is this a straight reduction?  Or an attempt to boost player population in cl10 by raising the marginal value of the top tier?
    Asking players to grind longer for the same rewards is bad, but not as bad as just removing rewards entirely (as was done with hp from champ rewards).
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2020
    You get less HP in all the SCLs from placement, as far as I can tell.

    It seems so petty to reduce the 4* shards by such a small amount.

    50 in 10

    In SCL9 in FFW you get the following HP amounts from placement:

    1-2          95
    3-10        90
    11-20      85
    21-50      80
    51-100    75

    In SCL9 for VB you get:

    1          115
    2-5       110
    6-10     105
    11-20    100
    21-50     95
    51-100   90

    I am not sure if the different breakdowns in reward rankings are typical for a new release or if this is a new structure.
  • Loosie
    Loosie Posts: 397 Mover and Shaker
    Here's the changes...1100 less Iso as well:

    1 - Mighty Token
2 - 200 Iso-8
3 - 400 Iso-8
4 - 3* cover
5 - 600 Iso-8
6 - 4* cover -> 50 4* shards
7 - 700 Iso-8
8 - 2250 Red Iso-8
9 - 800 Iso-8 -> 50 5* shards
10 - Heoric Token -> 800 Iso-8
11 - 1000 Iso-8 -> Heoric token
12 - 50 5* shards -> 1000 Iso-8
13 - 1100 Iso-8 -> 50 4* shards
14 - 75 5* shards -> 1200 Iso-8
15 - 1200 Iso-8 -> 4* cover
16 - 1400 Iso-8
17 - 70 HP
18 - 150 4* shards -> 75 5* shards
19 - 1400 Iso-8
20 - 250 4* shards
21 - 3600 Red Iso-8
22 - 1600 Iso-8
23 - 12 CP
24 - 250 4* shards
25 - 1600 Iso-8
26 - 2000 Iso-8
27 - Event Token
28 - 3000 Iso-8
29 - 80 HP
30 - 125 5* shards
31 - 12800 Red Iso-8
32 - 22 CP
33 - 250 4* shrads
  • Loosie
    Loosie Posts: 397 Mover and Shaker
    I guess it's technically a 550 reduction since we are currently in double iso right now. There was also a reduction in HP in placement rewards, but an increase in ISO.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited July 2020
    Loosie said:
    Here's the changes...1100 less Iso as well:

    1 - Mighty Token
2 - 200 Iso-8
3 - 400 Iso-8
4 - 3* cover
5 - 600 Iso-8
6 - 4* cover -> 50 4* shards
7 - 700 Iso-8
8 - 2250 Red Iso-8
9 - 800 Iso-8 -> 50 5* shards
10 - Heoric Token -> 800 Iso-8
11 - 1000 Iso-8 -> Heoric token
12 - 50 5* shards -> 1000 Iso-8
13 - 1100 Iso-8 -> 50 4* shards
14 - 75 5* shards -> 1200 Iso-8
15 - 1200 Iso-8 -> 4* cover
16 - 1400 Iso-8
17 - 70 HP
18 - 150 4* shards -> 75 5* shards
19 - 1400 Iso-8
20 - 250 4* shards
21 - 3600 Red Iso-8
22 - 1600 Iso-8
23 - 12 CP
24 - 250 4* shards
25 - 1600 Iso-8
26 - 2000 Iso-8
27 - Event Token
28 - 3000 Iso-8
29 - 80 HP
30 - 125 5* shards
31 - 12800 Red Iso-8
32 - 22 CP
33 - 250 4* shrads
     Thanks for this info. This is cl10 (old) --> cl10(new), right?

    Seems like a net loss of 50 4* shards and a little iso?

    That isn't a disaster, but it does suck.  Especially as a stealth change (a la the pvp rewards revamp that, I think, has never actually been addressed by Demi/d3 on this forum).
    It also strongly suggests that the purpose is to nerf rewards, rather than to channel players to different cls.
  • Loosie
    Loosie Posts: 397 Mover and Shaker
    Yes this is SCL 10 (Old) -> SCL 10 (New). You're right it's not a large reduction, but it's still a small change (50 4* shards and 550 iso-8), but along with the wave nodes changing from an event to a heroic token the champ reward changes they do pile up. It'd just be nice if they said something about it.

    It 'looks' like more iso in placement rewards, but again less HP, would need a non-release event to confirm though.


  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm glad I'm not going crazy.

    SCL10 is already a slog and the rewards are barely worth the grind as it is. Any reduction in rewards, even small, make it worse.

    I wouldn't be so annoyed with the change of they came out and told us why. This is getting a bit ridiculous as this point with the lack of communication. They could have easily said, hey we are reducing rewards but making the enemies weaker or adding more rewards to other events. 

    This game is so stingy with rewards. Nickel and dime us everywhere, and make progression soooo slow, it's no wonder why most new players quit after a month or two. It's impossible to make viable progression without spending a fortune or playing 8 hours a day. 
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    We should make sure to screenshot the sub rewards for venom bomb today so we can compare to the new sub rewards starting tomorrow.  I would not be surprised to see the top rewards bumped up and the most important rewards (e.g., HP for top 50) notched down.  As if we can't do the math and see that doubling rewards for the top 25 or too 10 != Nerfing the top 100 or top 250 rewards. . .
  • Demiurge_Anthony
    Demiurge_Anthony Posts: 156 Tile Toppler
    Hold tight everyone! There's a small change coming up for SCL 10 (structure and rewards (which you can see)). Post should be up soon!
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    We should be looking for an announcement later today about this change.
  • MrPlow
    MrPlow Posts: 240 Tile Toppler
    Hopefully structure means less of a slog.
  • DyingLegend
    DyingLegend Posts: 1,208 Chairperson of the Boards
    Highly doubt it will be less of a slog. If anything it will be worse. 
  • StevO-J
    StevO-J Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
    Demiurge_Anthony said:
    Hold tight everyone! There's a small change coming up for SCL 10 (structure and rewards (which you can see)). Post should be up soon!

    Ah.. the (in)famous 'soon!'  :p
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    MrPlow said:
    Hopefully structure means less of a slog.
    We can see the new reward structure.  I don't believe the max prog value was adjusted, so this change is the typical modest downward adjustment that we have become used to in mpq.  The total value of rewards is slightly lower, and the more desireable rewards require more effort to get than before.  :(
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx said:
    MrPlow said:
    Hopefully structure means less of a slog.
    We can see the new reward structure.  I don't believe the max prog value was adjusted, so this change is the typical modest downward adjustment that we have become used to in mpq.  The total value of rewards is slightly lower, and the more desireable rewards require more effort to get than before.  :(
    Based on the info on the thread, you will get max progression from 4 clears instead of 3.  If that's your goal, you save a clear per node.
  • Jormagund
    Jormagund Posts: 175 Tile Toppler
    Hi all, wonder if someone can explain something I've just noticed.  I'm still in four star land and saving CPs/Latest until I eventually target a batch of new 5* releases.  I've been spending CP in release stores to get an initial cover but otherwise only pulling a few classics occasionally.
    Prior to today I had 16 5 stars with a single cover needing 1,074 ISO to go to 256 or 22,476 to go to 270.  I also had six characters with two covers on different colours each needing 1,074 ISO to go to 256 or 54,339 to go to 285.  Today I reached level 280 on medusa and the Blackagar Boltagon cover took me from 0/1/0 to 1/1/0.
    BB is showing 1,424 to go to 256 or 55,721 to go to 285.  I have checked all of the other characters with either one cover or two on different colours and all are still on the original figures; this includes Killmonger recruited on the 2nd of July but excludes Spider-Man (PP) who was my last recruit on the 10th of July.  Petey needs 1,474 ISO to go to 256 or 24,162 to get to 270.
    Have I missed something and these two characters always needed more ISO to level or have they sneaked in another change apparently making it more expensive to level characters (at least at the lower levels)?  If so, it looks like the changes only apply take effect once you apply a new cover; as an experiment I levelled one of the 1 cover characters to 256 and they still needed 21,402 to get to 270.
    On a related note as long as I keep any 5*s below the level of my highest few 4* champs it shouldn't effect my MMR should it?


  • Waddles_Pines
    Waddles_Pines Posts: 1,229 Chairperson of the Boards
    Jormagund said:
    Hi all, wonder if someone can explain something I've just noticed.  I'm still in four star land and saving CPs/Latest until I eventually target a batch of new 5* releases.  I've been spending CP in release stores to get an initial cover but otherwise only pulling a few classics occasionally.
    Prior to today I had 16 5 stars with a single cover needing 1,074 ISO to go to 256 or 22,476 to go to 270.  I also had six characters with two covers on different colours each needing 1,074 ISO to go to 256 or 54,339 to go to 285.  Today I reached level 280 on medusa and the Blackagar Boltagon cover took me from 0/1/0 to 1/1/0.
    BB is showing 1,424 to go to 256 or 55,721 to go to 285.  I have checked all of the other characters with either one cover or two on different colours and all are still on the original figures; this includes Killmonger recruited on the 2nd of July but excludes Spider-Man (PP) who was my last recruit on the 10th of July.  Petey needs 1,474 ISO to go to 256 or 24,162 to get to 270.
    Have I missed something and these two characters always needed more ISO to level or have they sneaked in another change apparently making it more expensive to level characters (at least at the lower levels)?  If so, it looks like the changes only apply take effect once you apply a new cover; as an experiment I levelled one of the 1 cover characters to 256 and they still needed 21,402 to get to 270.
    On a related note as long as I keep any 5*s below the level of my highest few 4* champs it shouldn't effect my MMR should it?


    Re: 5* iso cost, it's always been that way.  There's a few older chars that for some reason are off by a small amount compared to everyone else.  

    MMR is the avg of your 3 highest chars.  Some say 5 chars, but you get the drift.  If you have alliance members with weaker rosters than you, ask for TU's, the 4* TU you receive should tell you your MMR.  Also, some people think the boost list affects this, some don't.  
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,275 Chairperson of the Boards
    Also remember that MMR is not necessarilly a fixed value. The AI will search within a range of values (how wide that goes I don't think is known) and a lot of that will simply depend on who else is playing when you are to find match-ups.
    In terms of the boost list - I am in the camp that thinks it doesn't affect anything. My Captain Marvel is lvl 315 and so was just boosted into the 400's and together with the other boosted 4's put all my boosted 4* for that week at higher than my top 5* and I didn't notice any significant change to my MMR when playing. I did notice that when I brought up a third 5* to over the 364 level that I started getting single 5* Champed MMR (but not constantly) so the danger level appears to be around Max Level 4* between 360-370 but that may depend on how evenly levelled your roster is - certainly at this level I will see some low 400 5* fairly regularly but I can also still see max champed 3* teams too.
  • DoneWithThis
    DoneWithThis Posts: 10 Just Dropped In
    Demiurge_Anthony said:
    Hold tight everyone! There's a small change coming up for SCL 10 (structure and rewards (which you can see)). Post should be up soon!
    Can you comment on why there's ever a need to reduce ANYTHING at this point? What, exactly, is going to break the game/bank?

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