How to defeat Bishop

Steve111

Can someone post a guide how to defeat Bishop please. Am sick to death of him. For many reasons. Thanks. 

tiomono

It depends what event he is in, who his teammates are, and what roster you have.

Rod5

If your go-to team involves champed 5*s, you’re on your own

jredd

hit the skip button

TriSentinel

I’ve had a lot of success against low level champed bishops teamed with Gritty by taking Kitty-Valkyrie-GodEmperorDoom.

If you have Doom’s black fallen favour at one cover and you can get the opponent to down Doom, he removes all Rocket’s strike tiles at the same time as activating Valkyrie’s passive strikes. It’s not a flawless solution, but it’ll give you a chance against Bishop-Gritty teams where Bishop isn’t levelled over 300.

fight4thedream

First and foremost you have to know Bishop's jump-to-the-front trigger point. At 370, it's 1859. If you plan on using a 5* character, here is a list of 5* whose match damage will not trigger his passive on the majority of their primary colors at level 450:

*Archangel (Green/Black)
*Black Panther (all colors safe)
*Black Widow (all colors safe)
*Captain America First Avenger (all colors safe)
*Captain America Infinity War (Purple/Yellow)
*Daredevil (Purple/Green)
*Doctor Doom (Black/Blue)
*Doctor Strange (Yellow/Purple)
*Gambit (Red/Black)
*Green Goblin (all colors)
*Hawkeye (all colors safe)
*Iron Man (Blue/Yellow)
*Phoenix (all colors)
*Loki (Green/Black, note green becomes unmatchable from 451)
* Silver Surfer (all colors)
*Spider-man Back in Black (Green/Purple)
*Spider-man Peter Parker (Green/Red)
*Star-Lord (Purple/Green)
*Thanos (Purple/Green)
*Wasp (Yellow, Black, note yellow becomes unmatchable from 451)

Note: I did not include Black Bolt, Jessica Jones, the Hulk or Wolverine since they all have passives that make matches far more unpredictable and thus too risky in my humble opinion.

Obviously not everyone is running around with a max 370 champed Bishop so you have to check his damage threshold before fighting him if he is at a significantly lower level. You also have to familiarize yourself with your roster so you know which 5* characters are most effective for you and if all their colors are safe or not. For instance, my Hawkeye is 457 which makes his purple unmatchable, with the exception of Beta/Bishop teams.

Considering Bishop's Red and Blue powers trigger from damage received, by far the most effective means of countering is to stun him. For a high level Bishop, the team I have found the most success with is Hawkeye/Worthy Cap. 

The basic strategy is to allow the enemy Bishop team to trigger Cap's passive, then proceed to stun Bishop. After that, focus on whittling down Bishop to a low enough health point that Hawkeye's Deep Breath one shots him. 

The Bishop teams I most often encounter are: Bishop/Beta and Bishop/Jessica Jones. I find these match ups the most interesting since there is still an element of risk: Jessica with her trap tiles, Beta with his low blue nuke.

Against high level Bishop/Beta teams I use Hawkeye/Worthy.

For lower level Bishop/Beta I might switch it up and use Kitty/Beta. The key here is to not let Kitty get stunned. Ideally, you want a board that keeps all of your protect tiles safe so Kitty can buff them which means you want your own Beta to take the first stun so Kitty can buff tiles. With your Beta stunned, you can safely collect Blue and Green AP.

Things do get problematic if the enemy team decides to use Beta's blue over Bishop's stun, though, so it's always a good idea to bring an MBW TU. One other thing you have to be mindful off when using Kitty against Bishop is that he can steal your own protect tiles using his For the Future yellow ability.

Against high level Bishop/Jessica Jones teams I think Hawkeye/Worthy and Beta/Kitty have about the same rate of success. In the case of Hawkeye/Worthy, it all depends on how long you can keep Worthy alive to generate CD tiles. In the case of Kitty/Beta, it's all about keeping your protect tiles out for Kitty to buff. The longer you can keep Kitty active, the better.

For lower level Bishop teams, Black Panther/Thanos is also effective. The goal is to have Thanos stunned first, then BP. Before Thanos becomes unstunned,  try to set the board up in a way that allows Thanos to match a non-trigger color so he isn't stunned again when BP launches his Move or Be Moved attack. If successful, that will usually end the match quick. 

For Sim mode or events that allow you to choose all three members of your team, Okoye/Bishop/5* Strange packs a decent punch against other Bishop teams. Just remember to load up on TU boosts and match TUs when possible. 

Not really sure about the 4* tier to be honest. I have seen 4* rosters running Bishop/4* Gamora I imagine for the awesome stunlock but I don't know if those teams are being run to counter Bishop teams or to take on something else. 

Basically, going to a match against Bishop requires that you understand this isn't going to be a run-of-the-mill match. There are clear risks involved. You need to be aware of his damage threshold and find a way to neutralize him. 

Low level health Bishop: Potentially susceptible to cheap nuke but match damage threshold lower, greater potential for generating Blue AP and stun potential. (particularly painful when paired with Beta)

High level health Bishop: Easier to work around without triggering passive but more damage from passive when triggered. 

You also have to keep in mind the third required character and whether or not they utilize blue AP. For example, in the current Falcon PvP I tried taking on a Bishop/Beta team with Hawkeye/Worthy Cap. Big mistake. I stunned Bishop but Falcon's Redwing was having a field day removing Hawkeye's CDs. While obviously frustrating, at the same time I appreciate that such characters add another layer of strategic depth to the game, to the point that you still have to consider 3* characters own potential to influence the outcome of the match. 

Well this has turned out into a lengthy exposition, I suppose a tl;dr is in order:

Overall, Hawkeye/Worthy Cap is currently the best bet against most iterations of Bishop teams with the caveat that you have to take into account the abilities of the third party. 

In general, stun Bishop first so you can still have Cap's match damage trigger by enemy team 5* character. Focus on finishing Bishop off with match damage and Hawkeye Deep Breath. 

Another good alternative team is Kitty/Beta but it is board dependent. Less risky when another X-man is involved or with another special tile creator type (e.g. 3* Iron first, 4* Karnak) . Initial objective is to keep Kitty unstunned for as long as possible. Let Beta get stunned so Kitty can collect blue. Then hit Bishop with Beta blue nuke. 

For low health Bishop teams: Thanos/BP or Surfer + good damage dealer character 

@Steve111: If you would like roster specific help, it would be helpful if you let us know what your roster looks like. There are other potential counters like 5* Dr. Strange or IW Captain America but it really depends on their levels (and in the case of Cap, I am not sure how his Rope-a-dope and Man Without A Country interact with Bishop's skill set. Might try testing it soon though).

Sm0keyJ0e

fight4thedream said:

First and foremost you have to know Bishop's jump-to-the-front trigger point. At 370, it's 1859. If you plan on using a 5* character, here is a list of 5* whose match damage will not trigger his passive on the majority of their primary colors at level 450:

*Archangel (Green/Black)
*Black Panther (all colors safe)
*Black Widow (all colors safe)
*Captain America First Avenger (all colors safe)
*Captain America Infinity War (Purple/Yellow)
*Daredevil (Purple/Green)
*Doctor Doom (Black/Blue)
*Doctor Strange (Yellow/Purple)
*Gambit (Red/Black)
*Green Goblin (all colors)
*Hawkeye (all colors safe)
*Iron Man (Blue/Yellow)
*Phoenix (all colors)
*Loki (Green/Black, note green becomes unmatchable from 451)
* Silver Surfer (all colors)
*Spider-man Back in Black (Green/Purple)
*Spider-man Peter Parker (Green/Red)
*Star-Lord (Purple/Green)
*Thanos (Purple/Green)
*Wasp (Yellow, Black, note yellow becomes unmatchable from 451)

Note: I did not include Black Bolt, Jessica Jones, the Hulk or Wolverine since they all have passives that make matches far more unpredictable and thus too risky in my humble opinion.

Obviously not everyone is running around with a max 370 champed Bishop so you have to check his damage threshold before fighting him if he is at a significantly lower level. You also have to familiarize yourself with your roster so you know which 5* characters are most effective for you and if all their colors are safe or not. For instance, my Hawkeye is 457 which makes his purple unmatchable, with the exception of Beta/Bishop teams.

Considering Bishop's Red and Blue powers trigger from damage received, by far the most effective means of countering is to stun him. For a high level Bishop, the team I have found the most success with is Hawkeye/Worthy Cap. 

The basic strategy is to allow the enemy Bishop team to trigger Cap's passive, then proceed to stun Bishop. After that, focus on whittling down Bishop to a low enough health point that Hawkeye's Deep Breath one shots him. 

The Bishop teams I most often encounter are: Bishop/Beta and Bishop/Jessica Jones. I find these match ups the most interesting since there is still an element of risk: Jessica with her trap tiles, Beta with his low blue nuke.

Against high level Bishop/Beta teams I use Hawkeye/Worthy.

For lower level Bishop/Beta I might switch it up and use Kitty/Beta. The key here is to not let Kitty get stunned. Ideally, you want a board that keeps all of your protect tiles safe so Kitty can buff them which means you want your own Beta to take the first stun so Kitty can buff tiles. With your Beta stunned, you can safely collect Blue and Green AP.

Things do get problematic if the enemy team decides to use Beta's blue over Bishop's stun, though, so it's always a good idea to bring an MBW TU. One other thing you have to be mindful off when using Kitty against Bishop is that he can steal your own protect tiles using his For the Future yellow ability.

Against high level Bishop/Jessica Jones teams I think Hawkeye/Worthy and Beta/Kitty have about the same rate of success. In the case of Hawkeye/Worthy, it all depends on how long you can keep Worthy alive to generate CD tiles. In the case of Kitty/Beta, it's all about keeping your protect tiles out for Kitty to buff. The longer you can keep Kitty active, the better.

For lower level Bishop teams, Black Panther/Thanos is also effective. The goal is to have Thanos stunned first, then BP. Before Thanos becomes unstunned,  try to set the board up in a way that allows Thanos to match a non-trigger color so he isn't stunned again when BP launches his Move or Be Moved attack. If successful, that will usually end the match quick. 

For Sim mode or events that allow you to choose all three members of your team, Okoye/Bishop/5* Strange packs a decent punch against other Bishop teams. Just remember to load up on TU boosts and match TUs when possible. 

Not really sure about the 4* tier to be honest. I have seen 4* rosters running Bishop/4* Gamora I imagine for the awesome stunlock but I don't know if those teams are being run to counter Bishop teams or to take on something else. 

Basically, going to a match against Bishop requires that you understand this isn't going to be a run-of-the-mill match. There are clear risks involved. You need to be aware of his damage threshold and find a way to neutralize him. 

Low level health Bishop: Potentially susceptible to cheap nuke but match damage threshold lower, greater potential for generating Blue AP and stun potential. (particularly painful when paired with Beta)

High level health Bishop: Easier to work around without triggering passive but more damage from passive when triggered. 

You also have to keep in mind the third required character and whether or not they utilize blue AP. For example, in the current Falcon PvP I tried taking on a Bishop/Beta team with Hawkeye/Worthy Cap. Big mistake. I stunned Bishop but Falcon's Redwing was having a field day removing Hawkeye's CDs. While obviously frustrating, at the same time I appreciate that such characters add another layer of strategic depth to the game, to the point that you still have to consider 3* characters own potential to influence the outcome of the match. 

Well this has turned out into a lengthy exposition, I suppose a tl;dr is in order:

Overall, Hawkeye/Worthy Cap is currently the best bet against most iterations of Bishop teams with the caveat that you have to take into account the abilities of the third party. 

In general, stun Bishop first so you can still have Cap's match damage trigger by enemy team 5* character. Focus on finishing Bishop off with match damage and Hawkeye Deep Breath. 

Another good alternative team is Kitty/Beta but it is board dependent. Less risky when another X-man is involved or with another special tile creator type (e.g. 3* Iron first, 4* Karnak) . Initial objective is to keep Kitty unstunned for as long as possible. Let Beta get stunned so Kitty can collect blue. Then hit Bishop with Beta blue nuke. 

For low health Bishop teams: Thanos/BP or Surfer + good damage dealer character 

@Steve111: If you would like roster specific help, it would be helpful if you let us know what your roster looks like. There are other potential counters like 5* Dr. Strange or IW Captain America but it really depends on their levels (and in the case of Cap, I am not sure how his Rope-a-dope and Man Without A Country interact with Bishop's skill set. Might try testing it soon though).

Or, you know, rather than going through all this rigamarole, spending 15m on one fight and coming out of it with -150 points, assuming you didn't wipe, you can do what I do: skip.

Steve111

Trouble is when EVERY sim team has Bishop, skipping is pointless 

BriMan2222

Skip and go for wins instead of points.  I used to hit 2000 every sim no problem before bishop but now once I get to about 1500 points it's a wall of bishops and I take tons of hits because I'm one of the few teams out with no bishop. If I try to fight a bishop team even if I win I usually come out with less points than I went in with. 

Now 75 wins is the only way I can do it. I used to be able to hit 2000 in about 30 ish wins.  Very annoying to now have to do double the work for the same rewards,  but it's the only way I can do it without spending tons on shields and trying to shield hop from 1500 to 2000.

bluewolf

When everyone has Bishop, no one has Bishop.

He's been in the game as a free float character since November 2018. 

Seriously, it's just boring.  Now they made him more effective with BRB as everyone who can covers him and sticks that team out.  I revise prior statements that they are "unbeatable" but who wants to spend time fighting them in PVP where you'll just get hit as @Sm0keyJ0e already pointed out.

Can't they find some new puzzles for us?  Where is my purple JIF generator to make Loki suddenly meta?  That could be interesting.

fight4thedream

@Steve111 For Sim I used:  Kitty/4* Gamora/4* Bishop. Use Bishop to feed Gamora, stun lock enemy team and Kitty will start buffing the special tiles Gamora produces for using stun ability. Can take down almost any team provided your Bishop has enough health to take a few hits.

Teams that have been able to defeat my team:

Hawkeye/Coulson/Worthy Cap
Kitty/Medusa/Grocket
5* Iceman/Thor/Kitty (notably Iceman at level 435 and Kitty at level 390. Assuming this player used boosts to proc his Iceman stun passive)
Okoye/5* Prof X/Kitty
Kitty/Grocket/Bishop

So it's doable without Bishop but I won't lie I have also gotten a lot of defensive wins. As I said before, go with your best stunner. Good luck!

Mr_F

fight4thedream said:

So it's doable without Bishop but I won't lie I have also gotten a lot of defensive wins. As I said before, go with your best stunner. Good luck!

For me its 2* Storm and 3* Strange. But, I have luck, I am in level when I do not encounter him that much so I just skip that few battles.

Daredevil217

@fight4thedream I know you think Thorkoye is boring, but do you not think that having to play Bishop or Worthy (the backbone of all of your Bishop counter teams) every match I s even more boring?

In the Thorkoye meta, matches are faster, and you can use a wider variety of teams, thus saving you healthpacks as you can use the majority of your roster. You can bring a Loki or Cable to a fight and actually be successful rather than being locked into two characters.

As an aside, it’s super dismissive when people tell the nerf Bishop crowd that they just want to “streamroll with Thorkoye while watching Netflix”. I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen a pro-nerf person post that, but variations of that are posted constantly by the anti-nerf crowd. And of course it goes unacknowledged because they don’t quote anyone directly. 

In the Bishop meta, matches are slower, and you essentially have to use one of two broken 4*s, and/or rely on lots of luck. By the way I’m almost certain that if Bish were nerfed we’d not go back to the Thorkoye meta anyway. At least not on defense (and no one is currently climbing with Bish anyway, just using him as a free shield). I’m pretty sure the “shield
teams” would consist of Kitty/ Carnage/ Beta/ Professor/ WorthyCap/ Rocket/ etc. There are some very, very strong defensive characters out there that don’t require Bish. But everyone runs Bish because his power level is so much higher than everyone else. 

Also, Bishop is not some grand problem to be solved. Don’t play your best characters with high match damage. Use broken 4* to stunlock him before he stunlocks you. It’s boring. It locks you into using a small subset of characters. Matches are so slow and tedious that you get smacked for more points than you came in with IF you win (don’t accidentally get a cascade... might as well retreat). 

I run a Gamora/Coulson/Hawkeye stunlock team to counter CL10 challenge nodes. This team with proper boosts and tons of time can beat anyone. Just because I can use this slow team as a counter to almost anything, it doesn’t mean Bishop isn’t broken. I enjoy it for 4 clears per day in PVE, but I’m not trying to play 1-3 teams in every single match in all nodes. Why chase new characters at all of you are locked into a handful in the Bishop meta? I have my BRB champed, who seems to be his best pair, because even if you can stay under the overclocked threshold, Bish will still gen blue passively from Betas protects. With these two, do you really need anyone else?

fight4thedream

@Daredevil217 You are not painting an accurate picture, at least not from my own in-game experience. The thing is I don't see Bishop every match. I don't encounter a significant amount of Bishop teams until I reach the end stage of my climb which makes sense.  Bishop is best used as an end stage character where his defensive value offsets his costs in terms of health packs.

Typically, in normal PvP events I am able to climb from 0-900 and see a wide variety of teams. After reaching 900, I will usually see Kitty/Grocket, Okoye/Thor, Hawkeye/Worthy Cap and now Bishop/Beta. Occasionally I will see players with less developed rosters rocking a Bishop/4* Gamora team, Bishop/JJ and the odd Black Panther/Thanos teams for those still using that team to shield hop. Notably, I see 5* Prof X frequently during my initial climb but not so much during my end stage with the exception of those who run him above 490+  with another high level character like Iceman or Jessica Jones.  During the prime of the Thor/Okoye meta, after breaking 900 it was basically Thor/Okoye everywhere with a splash of Black Panther/Thanos.

Similarly, in Simulator I don't really encounter a significant amount of Bishop teams until I hit about 1600-1700. So I am basically able to use any combination of characters that I like for roughly 3/4 of the progression ladder in both regular PvP or Sim if I am so inclined.  Is your experience different from mine? Are you encountering Bishop teams earlier? I know MMR can give different players different experiences.

If your PvP experience is similar to mine, then you should have the freedom to use whatever teams you like up until the final progression goal in PvP. From there it will take some planning and effort to reach the final progression goal (if you are not using LINE to give yourself an advantage). Shouldn't that be the case? That the final progression goal be a challenging endeavor that requires you to understand the logistics of end stage PVP and utilize your best teams for the given situation?

From a game design standpoint, the current set up of the progression rewards meta makes sense to me for a player who has a relatively wide roster but less depth (by that I mean a player who has almost all characters champed but doesn't have high level meta 5*s) :

Initial stage 0-450: Fight teams of relatively equal or lesser strength. A player with a well developed roster should have an easy initial climb where they have more freedom to try out different teams.

Middle stage 450-900: Fight teams of equal or slightly higher strength. A player will face slightly more challenging teams and will have to be more careful what teams they are using as players below them will hit easier teams.

End stage 900-1200: The climb from 900 is a challenge.  Players will need to make smart use of their roster in order to reach the final progression goal. They either have to utilize shields to reach the final progression goal or familiarize themselves with that slices point flows, basically knowing when high scorers are hopping.

Obviously there are ways to by pass this hindrance: either by having high level teams that allow you to win matches in a quick fashion so that you can gain more points than you lose or field a team that provides significant defensive deterrence that while slower fewer players will be willing to hit. The other option being joining a battle chat.

But perhaps I have digressed a bit here so to bring it back to the matter at hand:

During the Okoye/Thor meta, I was mainly using Okoye/Thor.

Under the current meta I am using: Okoye/Thor, Black Suit Spidey/Thor, Hawkeye/Worthy Cap, Thor/Bishop, Kitty/Beta and Thor/Surfer.

The reason the Okoye/Thor meta was boring is simple: they are the fastest, most efficient offensive team in the game. Players could do climbs from 0-2000 or more without exhausting their health pack supply.  They could beat anything under the sun. And despite your emphasis that a player can use any 5* team to beat them, you couldn't play that way competitively. Just imagine trying to use a Black Bolt/Cap First Avenger team to do a hop. It's highly likely you would have taken a significant amount of hits from everyone else running Okoye/Thor even doing one match because they are significantly faster. 

If the competitive field were truly equal during Okoye/Thor's time alone at the top, there would have been a greater variety of teams being used for competitive purposes. But there weren't. Now we do actually have viable competitive options. Currently:

*Okoye/Thor
*Kitty/Grocket
*Beta/Bishop
*Jessica/Bishop
*Beta/Prof X
*Jessica/Prof X
*Hawkeye/Worthy Cap

So what we have seen thus far is an expansion of the competitive meta in PVP. You complain about not being able to use a wide variety of your roster but barring strange MMR you should be able to use whichever 5* you like to climb up until your MMR break point in both regular PvP or Sim. 

This is the first time that I can recall that the meta was able to accommodate such a wide variety of teams. Furthermore, this was accomplished without having to nerf the top meta team. In that regard, the dev team should be congratulated as I think that is a great thing.And notably, while Okoye/Thor has lost some of its luster due to its inability to handle current popular meta defensive mechanics in PvP, it is now the go to team for competitive play in CL10 of PvE. So those who invested heavily in that team still are able to reap fruit from that investment.

I could go on about why the current meta is better than the Okoye/Thor meta but it would basically be a rehash of what I have already said in this thread so I will just leave the link for anyone interested.  I will point out that your final comment "With these two, do you really need anyone else?" was more true during the Okoye/Thor meta than it is with Beta/Bishop. 

Okoye/Thor could beat any team in the game, including older 5* at 550. They basically made any team that wasn't as fast irrelevant for competitive play. Add on top of that, the ability of Okoye to heal off almost all damage and there were plenty of players who could do a whole event without exhausting their health pack supply. 

The same cannot be said for Bishop/Beta. They are slower and Bishop has significantly lower health. With newer characters coming up with stronger and stronger nukes, it won't be long before players can one shot the enemy team Bishop relatively quickly. And unless a player plans on building up there Beta past 490 or so, that team will struggle against high level 5* teams. 

With all that said, I will admit that I am concerned the meta might tip into a Bishop festival with all the latest legendary 5* characters having significant Blue nuke powers. It is likely the PvP meta will continue to see an increase in his use. I am hoping the dev team realizes this and have a few characters prepared to properly counter at least his AP gen, if not more, that they will release in the near future. Otherwise, I could definitely see Bishop teams becoming overly present in PvP which I don't think is a good thing. 

But as always, I would prefer a great counter instead of an outright nerf. That way the current latest legends will still have some relevance in PvP but can also be countered with another team, further expanding the meta. 

Vhailorx

Fight4, as discussed in our previous debates on this topic, I don't think your experience is anything close to typical.  Players with baby champ 5* rosters see bishop much earlier.  I start seeing bishop or other meta floater teams around 500 points, and it's hard to find anything other than meta teams once I get above 700 or so.  I can't speak for everyone any more than you can, of course.  But I think it's dismissive of you to suggest that bishop isn't a problem because he isn't a problem for you.

As for team diversity, yes, it's more diverse now and that is good.  But it's a bit unfair to say that the current meta is better than the 'glory days' of thorkoye simply because there are more viable teams now.  When thorkoye was THE thing in late 2018, there were many fewer 5*s and very few people had kitty champed.  There were also a lot more viable 3* combos at the very end of the 3* meta as the tier filled up, and the same would be true of the 4* meta if 350+ champs didn't curb stomp 270 champs so brutally. In shortz it should be a more diverse meta now with a few dozen more characters to create tactical options.

Moreover, basically every 5* released prior to Thor, or maybe dd, is now obsolete in PvP (even Thanos is nearing obsolescence in pve with the introduction of Juggs and cl10); the gap is so big that we almost have a 5.5* tier and 5* tier.  Consider havok or sinister's match damage, health, and power damage compared to something like SS or im50.  and it's a lot easier to keep adding viable options when the baseline health and damage output keep ratcheting up.

(Disclaimer: I am not a member of the "bishop must be nerfed at all costs" club.  But I do think the stunner bros are (and will remain if left as-is) a significant game design challenge for Demi because they obviate a large portion of "normal" gameplay.)

BriMan2222

@fight4thedream My pvp experience doesn't quite line up with yours.  I have 12 5 stars champed mostly around 450 ish excpect BRB who is my highest at 462.

I see bishop in pick 2 pvp as soon as I hit the 3 seed teams.  I mostly see gritty, thorkoye, and bishop plus random 5 star with some rare oddball teams like panthos or gambit/black bolt, profx/storm or ice man.  Once I hit about 500 those odd ball teams go away and after 800 ish it's all bishops I'm skipping through looking for any thorkoye or gritty team.  In the last pvp I went from about 850 to 1000 skipping bishops and hitting one guy with a 515 thor and 505 okoye.  Sorry to that guy but he was the only non-bishop team and even though he was less points I could hit him much faster with much less risk of losing.

Does that not seem like a major game flaw that I am skipping newly champed 4 star bishops with about 14k health with some random 450 5 star in favor of highly champed 100K health dual meta 5 stars because they are EASIER????!!!   And not just mildly easier, I beat that guy like 4 times in the same amount of time I would have used to carefully fart around with newly champed bishop to not accidentally sneeze in his direction to hard and make him destroy my team.

Does it not seem completely backwards that a lower tier character with 85k less hp and 245 less levels is a bigger threat than the 515 meta 5 star teams??

fight4thedream

@Vhailorx I don't recall suggesting that Bishop wasn't a problem for certain players. In fact, I have acknowledged that fact many times in the past and it is even included in my analysis of the changing meta that I linked to in my argument. I am sympathetic to those who find Bishop frustrating to play against and try to help when I can because I know it isn't an easy fight. 

I also went out of my way to make it clear it was my own PvP experience so I am not sure why you feel I was being dismissive. I am not assuming my experience is typical.

But instead of dwelling on meaningless points of contention, what would be more fruitful and keeping in the spirit of this thread would be for you to share how you navigate PvP under the current meta. Are you able to reach the final progression goals in PvP and Sim? How do you do so? What sort of teams are you using to deal with meta teams? 

This sort of information would be more helpful for those wanting to do well and who share a similar PvP experience to yours. I think this thread could be a valuable asset to the player community if people didn't turn it into another complaint thread about Bishop but rather focused on helping each other on how to deal with him. 

fight4thedream

BriMan2222 said:

@fight4thedream My pvp experience doesn't quite line up with yours.  I have 12 5 stars champed mostly around 450 ish excpect BRB who is my highest at 462.

I see bishop in pick 2 pvp as soon as I hit the 3 seed teams.  I mostly see gritty, thorkoye, and bishop plus random 5 star with some rare oddball teams like panthos or gambit/black bolt, profx/storm or ice man.  Once I hit about 500 those odd ball teams go away and after 800 ish it's all bishops I'm skipping through looking for any thorkoye or gritty team.  In the last pvp I went from about 850 to 1000 skipping bishops and hitting one guy with a 515 thor and 505 okoye.  Sorry to that guy but he was the only non-bishop team and even though he was less points I could hit him much faster with much less risk of losing.

Does that not seem like a major game flaw that I am skipping newly champed 4 star bishops with about 14k health with some random 450 5 star in favor of highly champed 100K health dual meta 5 stars because they are EASIER????!!!   And not just mildly easier, I beat that guy like 4 times in the same amount of time I would have used to carefully fart around with newly champed bishop to not accidentally sneeze in his direction to hard and make him destroy my team.

Does it not seem completely backwards that a lower tier character with 85k less hp and 245 less levels is a bigger threat than the 515 meta 5 star teams??

Thank you for explaining your experience. What 12 5 Stars do you have? 

BriMan2222

@fight4thedream

BRB, Thor, Daredevil, Prof X, Spider-Man (MCU), Ghost Rider, Thanos, Panther, Dr. Strange, OML, Hawkeye, and Star Lord.

BRB and Thor are who I use in pick 2 and in SIM I use them plus Prof X

fight4thedream

How much damage is your Panther Move or be moved doing? 

Daredevil217

I do think your experience is atypical,
Fight. Mine is more in line with Bri/Vhail. I doubt I could run Surfer/Thor or BSSM/Thor and be successful in the same way you claim to. 

As for the “how are you successful” question- just like others, I avoid Bishop at all costs and hit literally any other team. It involves shields/lots of skips and massive hitting of the same person over and over. 

Your suggested counters were to play one of the broken characters yourself and hope they trigger you before you trigger them. This is Gambit all over again. You use Gambit to beat Gambit. Wait for them to fire red first. Then you fire yours and win. This is the same thing. Except way way slower, causing you to often get attacked for way more than you earned. Your worry that “the meta might tip into a Bishop festival” has already happened for many of us.  But your MMR seems to be quite different. 

I’m still waiting for people to post counters that don’t involve having to play Bishop or Worthy yourself. If you have to play a broken character to beat a broken character, that’s a problem. This is why Gambit was nerfed. He did way way too much. At least he was a 5. This is a 4* shutting down the tier above him. 

But I’ll kindly digress and sit silently while people struggle to post effective counters that don’t involve playing a problem character themselves. My contribution as to how to counter is the same as many others... keep skipping.