Patch vs punisher

Unknown

So kind of a spin off of my last thread but I feel this has importance enough for its own thread.

Punisher has always been known as the perfectly balanced character who can be a staple for most teams. His abilities synergize well with each other and he uses good colors. Patch however typically has the upper hand though because he is just so much faster. His green dore more damage. His red when used properly can take down any1. He regens and his strike tiles are intense.

However, patch is usually accompanied by Spider-Man or Loki. Loki doesn't get levelled much because he's a very niche character. Spidey just got the nerf bat. This isn't much of a threat to patch. Even after giving the enemy strike tiles his regen will cover most of the damage. This us now however, a problem for his team mates. Patch can't take all 6 colors and without spidey to control the opposition people are gonna take a lot of damage, bring on the health packs.

So do you think with recent changes punisher is gonna be back to the top? I personally think he is gonna shine a lot more and be seen on a lot more teams. The real question is; is he really gonna match up to "the best there is"?

mohio

I'm sure you're aware, but it's also not as simple as simply Patch vs. Punisher on your team. It's also going to depend on the opponents. I have a feeling we may see more Hulks, which I think might make Punisher slightly better, although as a living breathing human, you can always switch when you see Hulk. Defensively things are different. Punisher is a little scarier to me since I can usually cut off Patch before he does too much damage, but you may feel differently.

Unknown

mohio wrote:

I'm sure you're aware, but it's also not as simple as simply Patch vs. Punisher on your team. It's also going to depend on the opponents. I have a feeling we may see more Hulks, which I think might make Punisher slightly better, although as a living breathing human, you can always switch when you see Hulk. Defensively things are different. Punisher is a little scarier to me since I can usually cut off Patch before he does too much damage, but you may feel differently.

You bring up an interesting point about defense. I actually feel maybe patch is more dangerous now on defense. Before when facing patch I would allow him to release his green and then I would start spideys stun lock and use it against enemy. Now if opponent patch sets off strike tiles it's harder to control. Punisher still has his awesome aoe attack on the other hand.

Unknown

For me pun>patch...as a character. On my personal.tier list patch>pun though because not everyone is match 3 God like me plus with spidey (needed) and w/ mag's red patch as a team is ridiculously overpowered. Remove mag's red (and blue infinite) and we will better see where patch is. Still very very good and great for fast kills...bit slightly more of a liability than he is atm.

Why I personally like pun better though?:

1. Thor. Though I don't get to team them very often, when I do (main team is mag/pun/thor) punisher is the perfect color fit and his green is cheap enough that sometimes in the course of a match i will get a cots off but be able to follow it up with a judgement and mag"blue or two to finish the match off.

2. Pun is better on def. Now, before ppl think WHY?!?!... the reason is that a competent player usually can 1. Deny green pretty well. It's one of the best colors in the game and so you WANT to be getting it anyway. 2. Knows when pat h has or is goo close to having his berserk charged so that you know to either focus kill him that turn or know yo save your ap for eight AFTER he uses berserk...doubling or tripling hour OWN damage the next turn. Too many times a horrible enemy green cascade vs. Pat h turns into a win the next turn or two because ai pat h isn't as smart as a human and many times throws 2-3 tiles for himself and 6 for you. Also, patch's red is useless almost on.def. pun is fast enough to actually get all his mo es off if you don't kill him first or second and almost every match seems to hit.you with a Molotov because unless you are running bp, black is never a priority. I could go on with nuances..but point is..I am more worried about pun than patch on def. Even tho patch has better omgwtf chances of a demon cascade wiping your team than punisher has, punisher does more damage on average to your team..which to me is usually what matters (of all the hundreds of patch matches..I have lost once...ever. it required really.bad timing on my part, some lucky berserker cascades AND getting tbti off).

3. 1 more.active. its kinda a big deal as speed goes to have another active. Plus that active is the often ignored black color.

There are more reasons, but in the end it matters about team.composition AMD what you are looking for both when picking a team and picking someone to fight.

Side note, I haven't used spidey outside of prologue in 3-4 months until Sunday (I gave him a farewell mat h..sniffle..). Spidey made pat h a joke..but patch still isn't a big issue as long as you have one of these things: magneto, thor, hulk, low ap damage moves, anybody while avoiding letting the enemy get green. So yea.

mags1587

I tend to like Punisher a little more but Patch is more durable thanks to his healing.

Hulk is an interesting case. If you can focus on Hulk first with Punisher and whittle down his health before unleashing Judgment - Molotov - Retribution, then you're good. If you have to kill someone else (like OBW) first, and you get strike tiles out that are enough to trigger anger on match damage... that will go bad for you very quickly. On the other hand, my 5-3-5 Patch and lower level Psylocke has, with proper planning, killed OBW while building ap then killed Hulk in one turn. So it's probably closer to a draw than you'd think at first glance.

over_clocked

Punisher is greater than average, no downsides to him whatsoever.
Patch has a greater risk/reward ratio and demands some team build action.
I like both, and I used to somewhat hate both. Then I warmed up to Punisher first (3 actually good active abilities? Sold!), then to Patch as I leveled him. I would level both as they fulfill different roles in different enough ways.

Unknown

You missed the best Patch companion, C.Mags. Sure he's getting the nerf bat soon too, but his spam is amazing. Defensively, the way it usually works out for me is Punisher means lots of damage to my team, Patch is usually less damage, more dead characters. So depends on how I want to pick my poison at that moment.

Spoit

I like patch better, since he's so much faster, but punisher really is a much better all-round character. Even though they have the same amount of HP, he's just so squishy without the regen though

Unknown

Punisher being one of the two characters in the game with 4 environmental damage + 4X crit plays almost as if he has 4 skills. In the absence of environments they're probably equal, but Punisher can turn a crit tile into 48 EAP which is one match away from Thorned Rose or 2 Oasis, and both can easily put away a game.

Unknown

soenottelling wrote:

1. Thor. Though I don't get to team them very often, when I do (main team is mag/pun/thor) punisher is the perfect color fit and his green is cheap enough that sometimes in the course of a match i will get a cots off but be able to follow it up with a judgement and mag"blue or two to finish the match off.

Why do you feel like Punisher pairs well with Thor? I always feel like they both need green too much to work well together.

Unknown

You actually missed the big one. The spidey nerf should do very little to deter use of Patch, since Cmags is far better with Patch than Spiderman ever was.

I like Punisher overall better and I absolutely think Punisher should be the first 3 star a person levels, but Patch plus Cmags is still the best combo in the game.

Unknown

Personally I like Patch more on offense, he can tank almost anything and you can keep going without heal breaks. On defense Punisher is definitely scarier, when you can't kill him first he'll hurt you somehow. For Patch you can just deny green and the AI very rarely gets enough red.

Unknown

Ahhh just the type of post I needed after leveling my patch, so a quick question who would you skip more/be wary of? patch/hulk or pun/hulk?

over_clocked

Patch/Hulk. Patch is slightly scarier on defense but then again no one helps you win on offense as fast as enemy Patch (had won so many game which I wouldn't otherwise thanks to enemy Berserker Rage).

Unknown

Patch/hulk only need red and green denied to checked, and you only really need to pay attention to green. Punisher might not kill you, but I think those annoying aoe damage things are hard to deny. It seems like more people avoid punisher, especially obw users.

Unknown

BelligerentGnu wrote:

soenottelling wrote:

1. Thor. Though I don't get to team them very often, when I do (main team is mag/pun/thor) punisher is the perfect color fit and his green is cheap enough that sometimes in the course of a match i will get a cots off but be able to follow it up with a judgement and mag"blue or two to finish the match off.

Why do you feel like Punisher pairs well with Thor? I always feel like they both need green too much to work well together.

There is not a single character in the game who isn't going to overlap in a 3 man team. If I have overlap here is what I want: different ap costs, at least one of the two insanely strong, each to fit different roles, one of them cheap enough to get off every single match no matter what.

Thor's green is about as strong as you can get. The ap costs are low (8) and high (14). Both are useful and fit very different roles. Thor does pure aoe damage and punisher shuffles the board and makes strike tiles which are great for single enemy damage when combined with cascades, over time, or active ap moves. Also, thor's yellow has a tendency to build 6-12 green ap, often times enough to move you, on defense, from one lvl to the other. Also important, its nice to have someone's BEST color go be on someone else in case the enemy tko one of the characters. If I get 11 green and they ko thor, I can still drop a judgement and vice versa after 1 green match. Given the strength of green atm, green is THE BEST color to have multiple uses for the color.

I mean, who else do you think puts well with a magneto thor team? Bp could work. He ruins thor's yellow on def though and don't give you any valuable overlaps...which means they only ha e to ko one character go make a color useless (you overlap onblue yellow red with a wasteful red and an okay one, a awful yellow and a great one, and a useless blue kinda for both on def. That team is okay though with thor. Ht could cover that missing black, but he has a far worse green than punisher and his black is expensive and robs you of ap...only advantage is the red, and then only because the machine doesn't gauge it's use. Easily take pun over ht. Psy? Weak red doesn't bring anything go the table, blue is still pretty bad...the black is a solid addition though. Still, I'd rather have the solid green overlap, a valuable red, and a black that's about as useful as her's. Hood? Yea, solid team. The black is rather weak though, the yellow brings nothing given thor's since hood is ALWAYS the first (except obw) ...so hood is there to grab you maybe 4-8 ap on def before being koed. I think that's it for black skills...so...is take pun over all those other teams, both offensively and defensively.

Now, depending on your team, pun/thor might not be the best combo. Best tag with mag though? It's easily one of the best atm.

Unknown

soenottelling wrote:

BelligerentGnu wrote:

soenottelling wrote:

1. Thor. Though I don't get to team them very often, when I do (main team is mag/pun/thor) punisher is the perfect color fit and his green is cheap enough that sometimes in the course of a match i will get a cots off but be able to follow it up with a judgement and mag"blue or two to finish the match off.

Why do you feel like Punisher pairs well with Thor? I always feel like they both need green too much to work well together.

There is not a single character in the game who isn't going to overlap in a 3 man team. If I have overlap here is what I want: different ap costs, at least one of the two insanely strong, each to fit different roles, one of them cheap enough to get off every single match no matter what.

Thor's green is about as strong as you can get. The ap costs are low (8) and high (14). Both are useful and fit very different roles. Thor does pure aoe damage and punisher shuffles the board and makes strike tiles which are great for single enemy damage when combined with cascades, over time, or active ap moves. Also, thor's yellow has a tendency to build 6-12 green ap, often times enough to move you, on defense, from one lvl to the other. Also important, its nice to have someone's BEST color go be on someone else in case the enemy tko one of the characters. If I get 11 green and they ko thor, I can still drop a judgement and vice versa after 1 green match. Given the strength of green atm, green is THE BEST color to have multiple uses for the color.

I mean, who else do you think puts well with a magneto thor team? Bp could work. He ruins thor's yellow on def though and don't give you any valuable overlaps...which means they only ha e to ko one character go make a color useless (you overlap onblue yellow red with a wasteful red and an okay one, a awful yellow and a great one, and a useless blue kinda for both on def. That team is okay though with thor. Ht could cover that missing black, but he has a far worse green than punisher and his black is expensive and robs you of ap...only advantage is the red, and then only because the machine doesn't gauge it's use. Easily take pun over ht. Psy? Weak red doesn't bring anything go the table, blue is still pretty bad...the black is a solid addition though. Still, I'd rather have the solid green overlap, a valuable red, and a black that's about as useful as her's. Hood? Yea, solid team. The black is rather weak though, the yellow brings nothing given thor's since hood is ALWAYS the first (except obw) ...so hood is there to grab you maybe 4-8 ap on def before being koed. I think that's it for black skills...so...is take pun over all those other teams, both offensively and defensively.

Now, depending on your team, pun/thor might not be the best combo. Best tag with mag though? It's easily one of the best atm.

I can see that reasoning. I've got a 141 Thor, and I've been trying to decide to which champ to build next. I wish they'd announce the Magneto changes, he'd be the obvious next choice if it wasn't for that.

Unknown

With spiderman a goner I expect to see 5/3/5 patches parked and rebuilt to 4/ or 3/ then come back fighting.

The call can't be made in general, I play both and change them based on fine details about the battle.

As always, patch needs support, strategy and tactics, a lot of it unless you go suicide while punisher can be just played on, less DPS but safe.

On defense it's hard to tell who attacked on the patch team and using what strategy, with LT yellow keeps it unchanged, obviously building on stuns got hosed and will skip more... attacking punisher means swallowing at leas one molotov but it's not such a big deal, with patch you can survive with just tile dmg or get major hurt. Patch mirror can be really interesting.

Unknown

I prefer Patch on offence, especially if you build the team right and have him tanking 3 colours (my Patch is 3/5/5). The Best There Is will then be capable of taking down pretty much anyone in one shot. I would pair him with cMags as well, not to use his red spam (I save red for TBTI), but to use his blue to overwrite the enemy strike tiles if they appear in awkward to match places.

However, while I prefer Patch on offence, I think he's worse on defence. Punisher has a habit of creeping up on you while you're not prepared. I think Patch is more likely to take down one of your team while he's on defence, but against Punisher you'll almost certainly walk away having taken enough damage to need a health pack or two. After I max out Black Panther I'll definitely be taking Punisher up to 141 next.

Unknown

I actually like to use both on the same team.

On defense, Punisher will unleash his green and red instead of Patch. The player will have two options:

1 - Go for Punisher first. If the player down Pun first, even if Punisher was unable to release his powers, Patch would be there for the APs gathered so far and trigger Berserker and TBTI.

2 - Go for Patch first. It would be a little painfull to down him first because of his heal and the initial lack of AP (unless you're boosted). When you finally down Patch, all APs gathered may help Pun to trigger his powers.

Both have 5800 HP, so its not that difficult to finish them off, but could be a pain with evil cascades and probably demanding some health pack usage later.
With you pair them with Hulk, you can even trigger Anger to make their lifes miserable.

And on offense I like to trigger Beserker followed by Molotv. Its brutal, since my Patch is 5/3/5 and I only unleash Beserker when all purple are close enough that I can kill enemies strike tiles in the next 2 or 3 rounds. The 6 strike tiles provided by Beserker gives a nice boost to Molotv.

Unknown

I prefer 5/3/5 Patch, especially on offense. I pair him with cMags. Between extra turns and ability to write off a few of the purple tiles Patch's drawback is mitigated. And my cMags is 5/3/5 so often times my purple is enough to down a full health character with or without Patch's strike tiles out.

I've also maxed Patch and purposefully left other 3* lower level so Patch always tanks his colors. With cMags he even tanks purple. This way I can usually play several matches without needing a health pack. I don't story heal anymore. Too time consuming and now with Spidey nerfed it's even worse.

It makes me a little weaker on defense, but defense doesn't really matter to me. If I do win a defense it's usually against someone with way lower points so I get minimal points anyway.

Punisher is better balanced, so when they nerf cMags in the way of Rags and Spidey he will be my main strike tile generator. I'll likely go with lazyThor as a partner depending on the required third.