***** Havok (Classic) *****

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  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,206 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Those answers dont seem to align with the release blog...

    “Havok blasts away at his opponents, destroying their Attack, Protect and Strike tiles, and even blows them up even if they are Fortified, which is usually a great way to keep them stable otherwise. As a result of this destruction, he deals damage for each tile, then blasts the enemy team for even more damage afterwards.”
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Those answers dont seem to align with the release blog...

    “Havok blasts away at his opponents, destroying their Attack, Protect and Strike tiles, and even blows them up even if they are Fortified, which is usually a great way to keep them stable otherwise. As a result of this destruction, he deals damage for each tile, then blasts the enemy team for even more damage afterwards.”
    You assume the person who writes that copy has done anything beyond reading the or description. . .
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Thanos said:
    Some quick answers,

    1. Blues ap conversion requires all 2 or 3 red or green to fire.
    2. Green does all it's damage in a single hit.
    3. His green desroys the fortification on a SAP tile and leaves the SAP.

    Working on videos, getting real life nerfed. Any team ideas please let me know.
    Will blue do its damage component even if the ap conversion fails?

    As for teams, obviously how does he play with bishop.  But also curious how he does 'on his own' against the meta.  So does he have a shot against gritty or thorkoye or brb/carnage with a team of havok + 2x fillers? Does he need a red/blue battery like im40?

    Can his arbitrage turn  a blue battery into a red battery well enough to be useful?  Is bishop + havok or he/worthy/havok enough to use his red regularly?
  • Thanos
    Thanos Posts: 722 Critical Contributor
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    Vhailorx said:
    Thanos said:
    Some quick answers,

    1. Blues ap conversion requires all 2 or 3 red or green to fire.
    2. Green does all it's damage in a single hit.
    3. His green desroys the fortification on a SAP tile and leaves the SAP.

    Working on videos, getting real life nerfed. Any team ideas please let me know.
    Will blue do its damage component even if the ap conversion fails?

    As for teams, obviously how does he play with bishop.  But also curious how he does 'on his own' against the meta.  So does he have a shot against gritty or thorkoye or brb/carnage with a team of havok + 2x fillers? Does he need a red/blue battery like im40?

    Can his arbitrage turn  a blue battery into a red battery well enough to be useful?  Is bishop + havok or he/worthy/havok enough to use his red regularly?

    1. Blue won't even fire unless you have enough red or green to convert. Therefore he's not nearly as effective with Bishop as other blue users.
    2. Does anybody stand a chance against those teams on their own? Havok is a pretty straight forward damage dealer who would benefit from an AP booster the same as any other character.
  • Taganov
    Taganov Posts: 279 Mover and Shaker
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    Too bad. I was hoping Havok would remove one tile at a time applying damage with each. Would've been fun watching BRB put em all back.
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
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    It seems like a missed opportunity to not give him Cyclops immunity as a passive.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Thanos said:
    Vhailorx said:
    Thanos said:
    Some quick answers,

    1. Blues ap conversion requires all 2 or 3 red or green to fire.
    2. Green does all it's damage in a single hit.
    3. His green desroys the fortification on a SAP tile and leaves the SAP.

    Working on videos, getting real life nerfed. Any team ideas please let me know.
    Will blue do its damage component even if the ap conversion fails?

    As for teams, obviously how does he play with bishop.  But also curious how he does 'on his own' against the meta.  So does he have a shot against gritty or thorkoye or brb/carnage with a team of havok + 2x fillers? Does he need a red/blue battery like im40?

    Can his arbitrage turn  a blue battery into a red battery well enough to be useful?  Is bishop + havok or he/worthy/havok enough to use his red regularly?

    1. Blue won't even fire unless you have enough red or green to convert. Therefore he's not nearly as effective with Bishop as other blue users.
    2. Does anybody stand a chance against those teams on their own? Havok is a pretty straight forward damage dealer who would benefit from an AP booster the same as any other character.
    Whoa, that is a strict limitation on his blue (basically making it a 10ap power), and meaningfully lowers my assessment of his value.
  • CT1888
    CT1888 Posts: 1,201 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I suppose if you match 3 Green on turn one, the enemy gets a cascade and your Bishop gives you over 21 blue you convert green to red to green to red and you've just done 45k damage to one character and 9k each to the other 2.
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
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    jamesh said:
    It seems like a missed opportunity to not give him Cyclops immunity as a passive.
    I mean yeah it would fit lore wise, but to make him a tier above and have an ability to negate an older character that no one even uses anymore would be weird.

    Making Havok a 5* is still weird to me. If they were going to make a 5* Summers brother, I'd rather have Vulcan.
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
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    I was afraid to hear that his blue ability may require the listed red or green AP to fire off. As others have stated that makes it a 10 AP ability* for the most part, although it's usually easier to qualify for a 7 + 3 ability than a true 10 AP cost. 

    *Or, if you swap green AP for red, then you will need to actually acquire an additional 12 green AP to eventually fire that ability off.
    To be fair though, to fire his red ability you will have only needed 6 AP prior to the green->red swap.
    Hopefully the charged tiles created by his red help you fire off his blue again quickly, and you can convert AP again soon as needed.

    Boosting AP before each match will make a lot of sense (I usually do since going post Iso), but I don't really want to spend HP on the All Colors boost too often.

    His green should just have it's cost reduced to 10 or 11, not 12. It will often be difficult to ensure you get max damage from it anyway.

    So now I think Havok will fill more of a 2-color role on the team you choose, You'll probably use him as a primary red-blue user, and sometimes as a blue-green user. Doubt you'll plan him for using red-green only, there's lots of characters with that combo.
    Also, you'll need to be careful about Havok taking red or green away from another ally's ability. 

    So maybe we'll spec him around often for the team he's on and who he's up against. Nothing new there, but the 'best build' conversations may vary greatly.
  • RickOShay
    RickOShay Posts: 452 Mover and Shaker
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    I think Carbage is a liability if part of the strategy is leaving the protects on the board. Maybe EB Venom? That way it doesn’t even matter if the protects get excessive? But that puts way too many down to avoid probably.

    The blog post confirmed he is 1-shotting fortified tiles, so if you bank up Green hold on to it until a countdown is out, I could actually see Havok helping out against a BRB team.
    His green Should have been designed to destroy enemy countdowns or any 'special tiles', but it specifically states strike, attack, or protect tiles. 
    If enemy BRB has his fortified CD out, you'll remove up to 3 protect tiles, but due to the AoE damage, Bill's CD will put 3 back.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,206 Chairperson of the Boards
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    so far in the PVP loaner I’m not that impressed with Havok. 
  • DarthDeVo
    DarthDeVo Posts: 2,176 Chairperson of the Boards
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    DarthDeVo said:

    Sooooooo... I'm assuming that since he's in progression for Hearts of Darkness that means he's required for that event.


    Before he's in Latest or the Power Overwhelming store.


    Shards in placement/progression are nice, but they won't equal a full cover.


    Hold on to your wallets, folks, looks like Alex $ummer$ is taking a page from Profe$$or X... 🙄

    Well, Sinister ended up being required for HoD, even though Havok was placement/progression rewards. Color me pleasantly surprised. 

    If only there were some way to have known that information in advance, something like a preview thread or an upcoming events thread, that would tell us the events coming up, and like, which characters are required. Maybe even the rewards given out for both placement and progression. Probably wishful thinking, but I think it sounds like a feature people on the forums might appreciate. Maybe y'all should look into that. 

    (Hopefully everyone could understand what I was saying with my tongue so firmly implanted in my cheek.)
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
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    More new 5* PvP debuts please!
    It reminds me of the time I was using 3* loaner while in 2* land. 

    I wonder how players in 2* and 3* land are handling this.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 9,739 Chairperson of the Boards
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    He is a free meat shield for 2* & 3* players and probably outperforms even boosted champed 2's for damage, so from that perspective they are probably quite happy. The only real question is what is happening to their MMR? If everybody has at least a 368 character are there any wider effects to who they are being matched against or is it just business as usual?
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,206 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'd guess some of them are getting burned by having a few odd 4* characters, or maybe a (un)lucky 5* single cover or two on roster, but by and large I'd imagine it's business as usual. I think MMR looks at your top 2-3 characters, not singles? I could be wrong.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    DAZ0273 said:
    He is a free meat shield for 2* & 3* players and probably outperforms even boosted champed 2's for damage, so from that perspective they are probably quite happy. The only real question is what is happening to their MMR? If everybody has at least a 368 character are there any wider effects to who they are being matched against or is it just business as usual?
    One issue these players are probably facings I s the match damage Havok brings to the table.  One cascade from the AI can cause a 3* to die and will crush a 2*.  When they introduced 4* PVP there was a lot of complaining on other platforms that requiring a 4* was too difficult and effecting their ability to play.

    i imagine there is a mix of good and bad experiences and for 2-3* players it will come down to how quickly can you down the enemy Havok to avoid match damage
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 2,999 Chairperson of the Boards
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    DAZ0273 said:
    He is a free meat shield for 2* & 3* players and probably outperforms even boosted champed 2's for damage, so from that perspective they are probably quite happy. The only real question is what is happening to their MMR? If everybody has at least a 368 character are there any wider effects to who they are being matched against or is it just business as usual?

    MMR only takes into account your roster, not the loaner character. It shouldn't be affecting MMR at all.

    KGB