Squeal with delight.

2

Comments

  • Bryan Lambert
    Bryan Lambert Posts: 234 Tile Toppler
    This isn’t the worst thing they’ve ever done, but it’s super tacky. 

    Especially because it turns what everyone thought was a pro-player bit of common decency (50 more shards than you need for a cover so that people didn’t have to finish both full events to get a Ham) into something with a monetization ulterior motive.

    Also, just for the record, the original “wasted shards” issue has nothing to do with things like having 50 extra Ham shards. Or about loose shards from champ rewards or retro rewards or whatever. It was the wasted resources (pulls) you had to spend to get shards you could end up not needing or wanting because of natural pulls. 

  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Painmonger said:
    tiomono said:
    Maybe not price gouging but it's definitely predatory. We get 450 shards through playing the two 12 day events to completion. That got us 1 spiderham cover plus 50 leftover shards. Then a $10 dollar deal to let you use those 50 leftover shards to get 2 more covers. Why not let the deal be 800 shards? Because they are "preying" on the customer that doesnt want 50 "wasted" shards sitting on a limited character.
    The problem with this line of thinking is that it also applies to the other 150+ characters that have shards. In fact, it's a built in flaw with a per character shard system, but that's the whole system, not this particular deal. The 12 hour cycle of 20 shards for HP would still cost way more & caps at 1 cover.

    I'm guessing most people are sitting on 1,000s of "loose" shards on their roster since everything changed. What makes this deal worse than all those other characters? Being Limited? Being a fraction of the cost for the others? By nearly any metric this is an objectively better offer than any other sharded character, or any other cover offer for that matter.

    I don't like shards. I've quit plenty of other games that use them, and even after 2000+ days it made me consider quitting MPQ, too. Losing other champ rewards to make room for them instead of consolidating iso or HP was far more upsetting than a reasonably priced offer that I'm still not inclined to buy.


    To me it's worse because it's a limited character. And the package deal will not get you 2 full covers. If someone just started playing today and loved the character of spiderham and they spend on this deal not knowing they are not getting any more covers or shards for this character until about a year down the road I think they would get a bit upset.
  • Dogface
    Dogface Posts: 999 Critical Contributor
    People here seem to be forgetting that there might be people who didn't get all the shards. 400 shards and an extra 50 doesn't seem so bad if there are people with 350 shards.
    This also goes for other events where prizes used to be covers and now they are split into shards. If you miss a day or just can't finish, you at least have some shards. 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2020
    That's a good point, tiomono. But this isn't the first time and this won't be the last time they will be doing it. Tactics like these have been around for decades. To me, this is a norm. Pointing out things like this, to me, is like saying there are 24 hours in a day or the sky is blue. In reality, any business which wants to be competitive needs to use different psychological/marketing (pricing) tricks.

    As for shards rollout, the rollout has not been completed yet. The dev usually roll things out in stages. Given the recent Shardmas saga where they were forced to do a second rollout of Shards, I won't be surprised if they decided to push back part 2 of shards implementation. Yes, they were forced to give out extra shards and covers. If not, the shards given would be disappointing. Right now, they are probably analysing whether shards will help to increase gameplay time of the masses, not the minority. Also, they might be looking at how effective shard store is in increasing HP usage or purchases. This will take months. On the positive side, they might roll this out with other deals before their financial year ends.

    Also, what you mentioned seems more to be a symptom of OCD. No one is being forced to use that extra 50 shards. You can ignore it. You are not expected to make it turn into a round number enough for a cover, or your Spider-Ham can only remain as 0/400. But, you have a choice to buy, if you want to.
  • Godzillafan67
    Godzillafan67 Posts: 598 Critical Contributor
    HoundofShadow said:
    That's a good point, tiomono. But this isn't the first time and this won't be the last time they will be doing it. Tactics like these have been around for decades. To me, this is a norm. Pointing out things like this, to me, is like saying there are 24 hours in a day or the sky is blue. In reality, any business which wants to be competitive needs to use different psychological/marketing (pricing) tricks.

    [snip]

    True. However, when we consumers are made aware of the tricks, then we are better positioned to make rational/thoughtful decisions.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,821 Chairperson of the Boards
    My initial reaction was to be annoyed by this offer, I admit.

    But it is cheaper than, say, 3600 HP (in dollars) for a single cover of a specific color with some iso and Elite tokens.

    There was some other Ham bundle that has been offered where (I think) it was 3 covers for something like $24.99.  

    This is not a bad deal.  It's a pretty good deal.  I can see that it feels underhanded to some but you know, it's kind of whatever.  You aren't required to use Ham anywhere, it's not pay-to-win, it's just an offer that some players will find appealing.

    Personally I feel like the devs have let the PVP meta get away from them and I don't feel like spending money right now just because it's a good deal or whatever.  I also did buy the Loonie's deal but I feel like that's more than enough to spend right now for an experience I enjoy less and less with Bishop and Hammercap everywhere.  I don't care if there is some magical counter to Bishop that makes him easy or whatever, I don't enjoy seeing the same character everywhere when it's some stupid 4 designed to shut down my play and stunlock me.
  • Omegased
    Omegased Posts: 596 Critical Contributor
    HoundofShadow said:

    As for shards rollout, the rollout has not been completed yet. The dev usually roll things out in stages. Given the recent Shardmas saga where they were forced to do a second rollout of Shards, I won't be surprised if they decided to push back part 2 of shards implementation...

    Also, what you mentioned seems more to be a symptom of OCD. No one is being forced to use that extra 50 shards....
    I know you're a big defender, and I'll normally defend as well because we can't simply expect everything to communicated. I get, and have said multiple times that the shard rollout has been communicated as "not completed". but it's been 2 months. it's taken too long for this to be rolled out, and we're currently stuck with a system that is worse than what was here before. I just hope they get it completed sooner rather than later because if it stays like this for much longer people are going to get fed up.

    as for the OCD, that's simply not true.
    I have played for almost 5 years. I spend quite a lot on this game. I have a strong roster. I have 6 Champed 5s, all except the latest 6 4s champed, and a 3 and 2-star farm. I had no problems getting through the 12 days of Christmas. this means, that their "Login Gift: Spider-Ham Shards (x50)" is actually completely useless, and a "gift" I can do nothing with unless I spend money... it's like giving me halo, but telling me if I want to shoot the guns, I need to pay. that's not a gift, that's just spending money.

    I would prefer this bundle had 800 shards, and no one got this login gift. Then it wouldn't feel like a rip-off.



  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2020
    'Value' is subjective. Consumers usually buy things based on emotions and then rationalise it with logics. Walk around a big shopping mall and you have plenty of materials of the various gimmicks being used by various companies. In no time, you will easily recognise the psychology tactics being used.

    I doubt the dev is spending their time on how to implement shards rollout for the past 2 months. Two months have passed by, but it doesn't mean that they have been spending two months on part 2 of shards. As they have shared, unexpected things pop up and they have to attend to it. It seems long but, it's the norm. Even the dev in MCOC takes a few months to do rebalancing of their characters, which include data analysis as well. 

    If it's not OCD, then it has to be the need for instant gratification. In this case, it's the need for a full cover now, instead of in the future. Extra 50 shards are useless now, but over time, they add up. 
  • Omegased
    Omegased Posts: 596 Critical Contributor
    HoundofShadow said:

    If it's not OCD, then it has to be the need for instant gratification. In this case, it's the need for a full cover now, instead of in the future. Extra 50 shards are useless now, but over time, they add up. 
    Except it's not. we can't earn shards for him.
    Do you honestly not see this as somewhat shady? "here's your login gift! Merry Christmas!! oh, you want to use that gift? well... pay me $10."

    for the third time, I feel like they should have made this 800 shards, and never given a login gift that is useless.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2020
    I don't know what your definition of "earn" is. My definition of "earn" is getting shards via progression rewards, placement rewards, nodes rewards or using in-game resources accumulated via playing the game to pull from stores and vaults.

    I remember that players can "earn" them in one of the boss events, and players have "earned" the Spider-Ham shards by playing both events. In the future, they will be able to "earn" Spider-Ham shards in similar events. 

    I think you are not happy that the dev didn't let you "earn" enough to get one more Spider-Ham cover at the end of this event. Instead, they decided to package Spider-Ham shards with "earn" and "bundle". 
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2020
    I misremembered. Before Shards was implemented, players could earn covers of Spider-Ham in one of the boss events.

    You are right that the extra 50 shards is useless now. However, it doesn't mean that it will be useless in the future. Every shards add up. It's useless now because you can't turn it into an extra Spider-Ham cover right now by earning it now. You expect either shards equivalent of a full cover or 0 shards from the dev. No in between is allowed. Combination of extra shards and bundles are not allowed. Shards started for about a month plus and your expectation are already pretty high. Do you expect them to give players 800 Spider-Ham shards via playing the events, on top of the 4 extra 4* covers earned during the events.

    Besides, why get so hung up over a useless character like Spider-Ham? Just move on and ignore the extra 50 Spider-Ham shards. You are not going to use him anyway in 99% of your MPQ career.

    When they implemented the other previous bundle shard deals where players get extra shards, the players should have expected this to happen in the future. 


  • Omegased
    Omegased Posts: 596 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2020
    Hypothetically, you're right. Shards are shards, and maybe we'll get more shards in the future. The choice of this character to gift these shards means we can't work towards a complete character, and we have to wait to see how/what they give us.

    with that in mind, if you can't see that they've given us 1/4 of a cover for free, and then offer us a "great deal" to buy 3/4 of the same cover - well, you're blinded by love for this game and the Devs.

    I'm on day 1609 (consecutive) and this is by no means a deal-breaker for me. I've spent more money than I care to admit for this game. Most of the purchases/offers seem fairly transparent and fair (aside from when they stealth removed the costume/500hp from the VIP). I think that a lot of the packs they sell are overpriced, however I understand why they exist, and if people what to buy them I'm fine with it.

    This is the first time I've felt monetization on this game has been in poor taste. To give us 1/4 of a cover as a gift, and sell us the rest of the cover is just plain mean (with no current way to earn the rest in game).


  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2020
    I already expected this to happen. That's why I don't find it "manipulative" or out of the norm. I'm bombarded by similar pricing strategies from retailers and companies when I'm outside on a daily basis. I'm used to it and understand why they are using it. It simply works. It doesn't work for everyone of course. To me, these shards is as good as free because 1000 HP is about $9. 

    Sure, they gave us 1 and 1/8 of a cover and then came up with another cash bundle that includes 1 cover plus another 7/8 of a cover. So what? I'm not affected by the need to get another 350 shards to complete the extra 50 shards, neither am I interested in champing Spider-Ham. 

    It's time to stop saying there's no way to earn Spider-Ham shards because there will be a way in the future, just that the future is not right now. Besides, Spider-Ham is a limited character and you should be aware by now the method to acquire them will be different.

    Earning Spider-Ham shards should not be a concern, rather the potential to earn 5* shards in the future is more interesting.
  • Mayo
    Mayo Posts: 156 Tile Toppler
    edited January 2020
    The shards system is Just a better version of the support system, will never be completed because it is designed to milk players, i recall most of the defenders or good hopers of this system where the same defending the previous one. I would never go into a fast food asking for a burger and getting it without the tomato and lettuce with the promise that sometime in the future i will be able to get all the free vegetables I want in my burgers and at the same time getting the option of buying vegetables at a low price. Seems some players love to hit the same rock in their path more than once. 
  • jamesh
    jamesh Posts: 1,600 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    There was some other Ham bundle that has been offered where (I think) it was 3 covers for something like $24.99. 
    There have been two HP offers giving three Spider-Ham covers in the past, but I can't quite remember how much it was for. It was Taskmaster where they offered covers for cash.
  • Yepyep
    Yepyep Posts: 954 Critical Contributor
    edited January 2020
    Omegased said:
    HoundofShadow said:

    If it's not OCD, then it has to be the need for instant gratification. In this case, it's the need for a full cover now, instead of in the future. Extra 50 shards are useless now, but over time, they add up. 
    Except it's not. we can't earn shards for him.
    Do you honestly not see this as somewhat shady? "here's your login gift! Merry Christmas!! oh, you want to use that gift? well... pay me $10."

    for the third time, I feel like they should have made this 800 shards, and never given a login gift that is useless.
    It’s perfectly obvious that you’re exactly right, @Omegased. Put another way, it’s like giving a kid a toy that requires a proprietary battery to operate; buy a battery, now, or just look at the toy. How fun!

    (and off-topic — isn’t it a bummer that blocked members still show up in quotes?)

    EDIT: oops! Your next post made my same point before I did, the one about the razor. Awesome. 👍🏼

    Another EDIT: also, I would refer you to this excellent post: 
    https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/905890/#Comment_905890

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