HfH Happy Holidays deal - D3 be forthcoming

acescracked

I've seen a bunch of players and buy clubs setup to jump on the Heros for Hire Happy Holidays deal featuring Worthy, Juggernaut & 2099 covers.

However, there are rumors and rumblings of an imminent Worthy redesign (politically correct over "nerf"). Is it in good faith that D3 offers an HfH for money on a character just before they redesign it? Players may still would like to purchase the HfH even with the redesign. Wouldn't it be better to fill in the customer base on these changes so people can decide if they want to spend money on something that will then be changed very soon?

Now if these redesign rumors of Worthy are untrue, then this post is moot and sorry. The other issue might be yes there is a redesign in the works but not anytime soon. If that's the case well, any character can have that happen realistically and no guarantee when you make a cover purchase.

I also understand D3 doesn't want to release info on changes that "may" happen since things can change. But....no question Worthy creates discussion among MPQ's vocal community and redesign rumors have been discussed.

Again, if D3 knows with any kind of certainty that they are redesigning Worthy isn't it kind of poopy to offer a deal with him just before the redesign? Have the HfH with a different character maybe?

jackstar0

Where've you heard about a nerf/rebalance?

Borstock

If they offer this package and immediately nerf WorthyCap, that is absolutely a bad look.

However, Juggs and 2099 are both good. Even if WorthyCap wasn't in the package, if it was some other 4*, it's a nice offer. Hard to complain too much (beyond being opposed to nerfs, in general, that is).

Vhailorx

I disagree borstock   it's extremely bad form to offer a timed, special sale on a digital good if Demi/d3 know, but do not communicate, that a significant change in value is imminent.  that's true regardless of whether the offer itself remains decent value even after a worthy nerf.  You shouldn't treat your customers that way.

But hey, at least we will be able to sell him for a slightly elevated price as compensation!

Also, why would you possibly rework worthy and not bishop?  They are both broken, at least in 5* land, for the exact same reason (unavoidable jump-in-front fuels insta-stun).

bluewolf

They haven't reworked any character since Mr Fantastic was .... nerfed, or something, back in January (at least, that's when it was pushed out).  And NO 4 has been nerfed in years, since maybe Thor?  I guess 4SL had a rapid nerf when they realized he had an unintended interaction.  That was the last person I can recall being made less powerful (intentionally); everyone else was at least slightly improved.

IF there were any nerf in the works they would not tell you about it.

IF they were going to nerf any 4, almost everyone would pick Bishop first.

IF they nerf anyone, in the Era of Dilution and shards (AKA Targeted Development), they %$& well better have an EXTREMELY generous reimbursement plan in place to make up for the months to years of wasted resources since the only real way to progress anyone is focus on them to the exclusion of many different options.

Since you are dealing in rumors etc, it's fairly likely that someone is having fun with the community.  About 6 - 8 months ago a lot of people became convinced Kitty was getting nerfed, they even made up some new/changed abilities and as you can see she remains untouched.

I highly doubt Cap is getting nerfed, he's not much good without 5HE in pick-2 PVP.  Should he be nerfed?  Probably, but I still don't think the team is going to devote time to nerfs at this point in the game.

acescracked

Bishop redesign rumored with Worthy didn't mention that since this more of an offer character for money then change it discussion.

Of course there might not be anything planned and again I apologize then. I know D3 can't respond to every rumor about their game but let's see. Maybe we can get a statement saying no re-balances planned for Worthy buy away or silence and if it does happen soon after this HfH is over, well some people knew.

Vins2

Yes it would be very interesting, and probably very eyerolling, to see the reasoning used to nerf worthy but preserve bishop. 

But the actual act of offering a sale before pulling the rug out from under the player? It's been the norm since at least the anniversary.

BUT I see the merits in it. The outrage would be lost in the noise of nerf arguments and the player base would go back to arguing amongst themselves instead of actually influencing game decisions with organized action. 

Vhailorx

acescracked said:

Bishop redesign rumored with Worthy didn't mention that since this more of an offer character for money then change it discussion.

Of course there might not be anything planned and again I apologize then. I know D3 can't respond to every rumor about their game but let's see. Maybe we can get a statement saying no re-balances planned for Worthy buy away or silence and if it does happen soon after this HfH is over, well some people knew.

Demi has definitely planned, but not implemented, nerfs in the past.  On the other hand, bishop and worthy are both sufficiently broken to merit a change (and it would be such an easy fix: prohibit their jump-in-fronts from proc'ing on match damage.  Problem solved).

Based on past practice, I would expect demi/d3 to arrive extremely late to a nerf (gotta maximize dat revenue!), and piledrive both characters deep deep into the ground.  That's what happened to sentry, xfw, OML, and then Gambit.  They are right on track for bishop, but it's a bit early to nerf worthy according to this model.

BriMan2222

Of course they would nerf Worthy Cap now, when I just champed him.  I've had 5 star hawkeye champed forever but no worthy cap until I got enough to cover him with the shard update.  Of course they would nerf when I just got to start using the hawkeye/ cap combo.

If they do nerf him though they better be nerfing bishop too and nerfing him harder than cap.  Bishop is 400 times more of a menace than hammer cap is.

HoundofShadow

What's the source of the rumour? A discussion in discord with the dev? or in Line?

I find it strange they aren't nerfing Bishop along with Worthy Cap. I remember way back in a debate thread about Bishop, someone posted that the dev is looking into redesigning him. 

As you can see, Bishop is still the same.

Omegased

for what it's worth, Worthy Cap teams are probably the easiest to counter.

I really don't think it's worth Nerfing him when there are at least two other 4s that are more broken (Bishop, 4Rocket&Groot is the problem, not kitty).

using a combo of Bishop/Gamora/(kitty, but the third can really be anyone), I'll get thru a WorthyCap team using only 1 health pack. I'll stunlock, and worlds strongest woman the teams. 

Daredevil217

bluewolf said:

I highly doubt Cap is getting nerfed, he's not much good without 5HE in pick-2 PVP.  Should he be nerfed?  Probably, but I still don't think the team is going to devote time to nerfs at this point in the game.

I’d argue he’s not that good WITH him in pick-2. They generate a ton of AP but the red/blue outlets aren’t all that stellar. Doctor Strange eats the team alive. As the arrows come firing you can passive them to death. Bishop is an easy counter to them. I imagine (but haven’t tried it) Kitty could cause problems as well eating the countdowns. I think any two high health 5* could take them. 

In pick-3 (Sim) yeah, they’re a problem because they can add a third person who can do some real damage with all that AP.  But you need three characters for the team to be “a problem”. 

Bishop is different. I just put him and Jess on defense in LR, got attacked 3 times, and got three defensive wins. Bish doesn’t even fuel Jess at all, as she has no blue outlet. He’s so broken you can just pair him with any high damage 5 and go to work. 

I also haven’t heard any Worthy nerf rumors (just the Bishop one Hound mentioned), so I’d be curious to know the source as well. 

Vhailorx

Daredevil217 said:

bluewolf said:

I highly doubt Cap is getting nerfed, he's not much good without 5HE in pick-2 PVP.  Should he be nerfed?  Probably, but I still don't think the team is going to devote time to nerfs at this point in the game.

I’d argue he’s not that good WITH him in pick-2. They generate a ton of AP but the red/blue outlets aren’t all that stellar. Doctor Strange eats the team alive. As the arrows come firing you can passive them to death. Bishop is an easy counter to them. I imagine (but haven’t tried it) Kitty could cause problems as well eating the countdowns. I think any two high health 5* could take them. 

In pick-3 (Sim) yeah, they’re a problem because they can add a third person who can do some real damage with all that AP.  But you need three characters for the team to be “a problem”. 

Bishop is different. I just put him and Jess on defense in LR, got attacked 3 times, and got three defensive wins. Bish doesn’t even fuel Jess at all, as she has no blue outlet. He’s so broken you can just pair him with any high damage 5 and go to work. 

I also haven’t heard any Worthy nerf rumors (just the Bishop one Hound mentioned), so I’d be curious to know the source as well. 

Worthy 5HE is a reasonably useful defensive team for PVP.  not quite as good as gritty/bishop, but next best thing.  But it's crazy to use that team on offense if you have a half decent alternative.  It just takes so long.

abenness

Daredevil217 said:

Bishop is different. I just put him and Jess on defense in LR, got attacked 3 times, and got three defensive wins. Bish doesn’t even fuel Jess at all, as she has no blue outlet. He’s so broken you can just pair him with any high damage 5 and go to work. 

JJ having no blue outlet I think is part of the strength of this team - you know that the blue will be used for Bishop’s long stun, and that is also more likely to hit the stronger toon (eg a gritty team like I had where Kitty tanked every colour)

Sometimes you get a reprieve against them when another toon fires a blue power instead.

Daredevil217

abenness said:

Daredevil217 said:

Bishop is different. I just put him and Jess on defense in LR, got attacked 3 times, and got three defensive wins. Bish doesn’t even fuel Jess at all, as she has no blue outlet. He’s so broken you can just pair him with any high damage 5 and go to work. 

JJ having no blue outlet I think is part of the strength of this team - you know that the blue will be used for Bishop’s long stun, and that is also more likely to hit the stronger toon (eg a gritty team like I had where Kitty tanked every colour)

Sometimes you get a reprieve against them when another toon fires a blue power instead.

That’s sort of the point. Bishop doesn’t need two characters to be good. He stands alone as broken. Worthy needs Hawkeye just to do the AP manipulation and then another to use the AP effectively. Bish is a one stop shop. 

ThaRoadWarrior

I agree, WCap is I think a well designed jump-in-front in the vein of Rogue. Juuuuuuust effective enough to be annoying, but there are counters to it. Bishop is just.....OVERCLOCKED!

PiMacleod

Yeah... bishop is easily broken compared to worthy.

Bishop and worthy both jump in... But bishop just gains the AP... How you use it can be up to you and who you pick as his partners.  He needs no one to generate the AP.  It just works.

But worthy needs another person to make that AP.  Hawkeye being most popular... Coulson also gets mentioned.  And thats really annoying... But thats 2/3 of the team dedicated to the broken-ness.  Kinda like Gritty, but they dont have a potential stun factor without, oh say, BISHOP.

So yeah.  Id hope that any worthy remake would also be along with a Bishop one.  Otherwise, they should just leave them BOTH alone, because at least right now, we have multiple meta teams.  Nerfing one would leave us with fewer options.

ThaRoadWarrior

I think I'd run Drax before I ran Coulson - if you're starving the board of yellow, and only randomly getting it from CDs going off, does that team have any meaningful damage output? Or is the Purple charge tile thing where it comes from? I only ever see Cap/Hawk teams at my MMR so I'm curioius what it looks like at the 4* tier.

But I'd also like to know the source of this rumor.

MegaBee

HoundofShadow

In 4* land simulator training, I see R4G, C4rol and Cap. That's the most common team that you will see with Cap. The other team I saw was Cap, Bishop and someone else that I can't remember. In 4* land, they are a cakewalk.

ThaRoadWarrior

Cap and Bishop at the same time? DId they fix the competing Jump-in-front bug then with Bishop that used to happen when you'd put him in with Rogue or somebody and nobody would jump?