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Shards, Shards, Shards

Bigbrothad7
Bigbrothad7 Posts: 16 Just Dropped In
Love the idea of having a better chance to get the characters you need. Good idea puzzle quest
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Comments

  • 111MCH111
    111MCH111 Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
    It works...... The fun factor of lucky draw is gone....that is a pitty
  • abmoraz
    abmoraz Posts: 711 Critical Contributor
    As someone else (not me) crunched the numbers in another thread, Shards work in the player's favor if they are not in the 5-star tier.  Shards give more 3 and 4 star rewards than bonus heroes did.  However, it is the reverse for 5* tier.  They are worse off now with shards.

    Specifically:
    - Legendary tokens (latest and classic) give out 4star and 5star covers slower than before (-13% for 4star and -26% for 5star)
    - Heroic tokens give out 3star covers faster than before (+70%) and give out 4* covers much faster (+140% more often)
    -Elite tokens give out 3* covers insanely faster (+243%) but 4* covers infinitely slower (they no longer do)
    -The math wasn't done on Standard tokens

    So in conclusion: if you need 3* covers, this system benefits you immensely.  If you need 4* covers, It's slightly in your favor.  If you need 5*s, you got boned.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    111MCH111 said:
    It works...... The fun factor of lucky draw is gone....that is a pitty
    Also the unfun factor of unlucky draw is gone...finally
  • BriMan2222
    BriMan2222 Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    edited December 2019
    abmoraz said:
    As someone else (not me) crunched the numbers in another thread, Shards work in the player's favor if they are not in the 5-star tier.  Shards give more 3 and 4 star rewards than bonus heroes did.  However, it is the reverse for 5* tier.  They are worse off now with shards.

    Specifically:
    - Legendary tokens (latest and classic) give out 4star and 5star covers slower than before (-13% for 4star and -26% for 5star)
    - Heroic tokens give out 3star covers faster than before (+70%) and give out 4* covers much faster (+140% more often)
    -Elite tokens give out 3* covers insanely faster (+243%) but 4* covers infinitely slower (they no longer do)
    -The math wasn't done on Standard tokens

    So in conclusion: if you need 3* covers, this system benefits you immensely.  If you need 4* covers, It's slightly in your favor.  If you need 5*s, you got boned.
    I can only speak for myself, but as a 5 star player shards work much better for me. In the entire run of Bonus Heroes I think I got a bonus 5 star twice, maybe 3 times.  Since shards have become a thing I currently have enough Latest Legend Tokens and Cp saved up to earn 2, very nearly 3, bonus covers and unlike Bonus Heroes I can choose exactly what cover I want.

    I can finally finish one of my 5/1/5 five stars that I never would have set as a bonus under BH since I would most likely just get another cover already at 5 if I even manage to pull the mythical bonus 5 star pull.

    Shards are already working better for me in the few weeks we've had it, as far as 5 star pulls go, than Bonus Heroes did the entire time we had it.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 6,318 Chairperson of the Boards
    Elite tokens have never given out 4* covers.

    Fun fact - you used to be able to get 4* covers from Standards, although from my experience it seemed this was only Professor X purple which I amazingly pulled 2 covers of from standards! Ah, the good old days!

    Sorry...I return you to your regularly scheduled thread debate.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,703 Chairperson of the Boards
    I am hoping for a big change in rewards for progression in PVE and PVP this offseason to include shards for favorited characters.  This would help increase the frequency of getting the targeted character faster.  
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 6,318 Chairperson of the Boards
    wymtime said:
    I am hoping for a big change in rewards for progression in PVE and PVP this offseason to include shards for favorited characters.  This would help increase the frequency of getting the targeted character faster.  
    I'm guessing this isn't likely. Instead what you will get is a rotating character shards prize based upon 3, 4 (maybe 5?) essentials or whose PvP it is. That is how I have seen it in other games with shards like systems - always character specific.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,703 Chairperson of the Boards
    DAZ0273 said:
    wymtime said:
    I am hoping for a big change in rewards for progression in PVE and PVP this offseason to include shards for favorited characters.  This would help increase the frequency of getting the targeted character faster.  
    I'm guessing this isn't likely. Instead what you will get is a rotating character shards prize based upon 3, 4 (maybe 5?) essentials or whose PvP it is. That is how I have seen it in other games with shards like systems - always character specific.
    I can see that happening.  Hopefully CL9 will give out 5* shards.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    wymtime said:
    DAZ0273 said:
    wymtime said:
    I am hoping for a big change in rewards for progression in PVE and PVP this offseason to include shards for favorited characters.  This would help increase the frequency of getting the targeted character faster.  
    I'm guessing this isn't likely. Instead what you will get is a rotating character shards prize based upon 3, 4 (maybe 5?) essentials or whose PvP it is. That is how I have seen it in other games with shards like systems - always character specific.
    I can see that happening.  Hopefully CL9 will give out 5* shards.
    or in SCL 10


  • orbitalint
    orbitalint Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    So, I've tried to put my finger on why it feels about the same to me when the math technically shows otherwise. It's that shards are transferable across tokens for reduced RNG variability. I get that statistically it's a net reduction but the three tokens I get from random events, and non vaults for yet another 2* contribute to my cover goals better than BH. 

    One or two draws in those is more subject to RNG variability than the other tokens with larger pull pools like heroics in general. No one is getting to statistically significant draws on those tokens for averages to kick in, right? Add in colorless and it seems like a wash. 
  • Therealsmkspy
    Therealsmkspy Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    Character specific shards are the worst. All those wasted shard prediction were spot on.

    My example. 1/5/5 Mysterio. Pulled a purple to make him 2/5/5. Okay, great. The odds are massively against me pulling another purple. I shard him and have collected 168 shards. 

    And what did I just pull? Another purple to champ him. Now I've got a 168 wasted shards. What a great system.
  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,249 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Character specific shards are the worst. All those wasted shard prediction were spot on.

    My example. 1/5/5 Mysterio. Pulled a purple to make him 2/5/5. Okay, great. The odds are massively against me pulling another purple. I shard him and have collected 168 shards. 

    And what did I just pull? Another purple to champ him. Now I've got a 168 wasted shards. What a great system.
    That is one way to look at it.  I would look at it as well now I have 232 shards I don't have to apply to him.  I mean you were willing to apply 400 shards to get that next cover for him when you made him your target and now you don't have to.  168 shards is the opportunity cost of choosing him and getting the cover through random draw, which as you mentioned was really low in probability.  Technically speaking, the developers would say those shards are not wasted as you are 168 shards closer to another cover, which is true.  I understand though your point is now you wish you had those 168 shards applied to another character.  

    This is the new risk you take in this system.  Using shards to get the 13th cover, the risk in the new system is pulling the 13th cover.  In the old system, you would have accepted a similar risk by making Mysterio a bonus hero and getting one of his yellow or blue covers that you already had at 5 covers. In the old system since this risk was so high, you may have simply chosen to not bonus hero Mysterio.  If that is the case, then shards allows you more choices since you obviously wanted to cover Mysterio.  You are "out" only 168 shards...instead of an entire character cover under the old bonus hero system had you received a blue or yellow bonus cover.   

    I think the main issue is that the player view of "wasted" shards is not the same as the developers.  Certain play styles and roster building have been benefited or been hurt by the new system as the forums can attest.  The old system had the same issue of benefiting some and hurting others as well.  
  • Therealsmkspy
    Therealsmkspy Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    Warbringa said:
    Character specific shards are the worst. All those wasted shard prediction were spot on.

    My example. 1/5/5 Mysterio. Pulled a purple to make him 2/5/5. Okay, great. The odds are massively against me pulling another purple. I shard him and have collected 168 shards. 

    And what did I just pull? Another purple to champ him. Now I've got a 168 wasted shards. What a great system.
    That is one way to look at it.  I would look at it as well now I have 232 shards I don't have to apply to him.  I mean you were willing to apply 400 shards to get that next cover for him when you made him your target and now you don't have to.  168 shards is the opportunity cost of choosing him and getting the cover through random draw, which as you mentioned was really low in probability.  Technically speaking, the developers would say those shards are not wasted as you are 168 shards closer to another cover, which is true.  I understand though your point is now you wish you had those 168 shards applied to another character.  

    This is the new risk you take in this system.  Using shards to get the 13th cover, the risk in the new system is pulling the 13th cover.  In the old system, you would have accepted a similar risk by making Mysterio a bonus hero and getting one of his yellow or blue covers that you already had at 5 covers. In the old system since this risk was so high, you may have simply chosen to not bonus hero Mysterio.  If that is the case, then shards allows you more choices since you obviously wanted to cover Mysterio.  You are "out" only 168 shards...instead of an entire character cover under the old bonus hero system had you received a blue or yellow bonus cover.   

    I think the main issue is that the player view of "wasted" shards is not the same as the developers.  Certain play styles and roster building have been benefited or been hurt by the new system as the forums can attest.  The old system had the same issue of benefiting some and hurting others as well.  

    Making clear, I'm not fuming over it. Nevertheless, these wasted shards are going to have a cumulative effect imo. It's 168 here, 38 shards there, 10 shards somewhere else, etc, etc. These things build up the frustration level.

    It's just too bad that the devs had to monetize the feature, but hey, it is what it is after all.

    I was just pointing out the perfect example of what people predicted would happen with CS shards.
  • Vins2
    Vins2 Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    Just shard up on bishop and forget about Mysterio.  You would have gotten him covered eventually.  That purple may have come at 2/5/5 it may have come at 2/10/10, and if it was really digging into your brain you could swap covers.  I did that with 5* Iceman sitting at 5/5/2 with 13 covers saved so I'm familiar with that anguish.  
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited December 2019
    Character specific shards are the worst. All those wasted shard prediction were spot on.

    My example. 1/5/5 Mysterio. Pulled a purple to make him 2/5/5. Okay, great. The odds are massively against me pulling another purple. I shard him and have collected 168 shards

    And what did I just pull? Another purple to champ him. Now I've got a 168 wasted shards. What a great system.
    I'd like to see that math because I'm positive that's incorrect.  The odds are more likely good you won't pull it, not massively against it, but I haven't run them myself.  Just going off my experience pulling a ton since shards launched while having 10 0 covered 4*s and seeing how slowly they are filling with covers.  Odds are probably fair you'll get a single cover, which means 66% it's the wrong cover and odds are not good you'll get a second 1:3 chance before you have your shards.  Even if you did luck into covering, enjoy your bonus level when you get it because nothing was wasted.
  • Therealsmkspy
    Therealsmkspy Posts: 254 Mover and Shaker
    edited December 2019
    Get that Symantec calculator out, broham lol. 

    For 2 CP, I'll waste the shards, move on, and permashard my 299 IWSM to champ BSSM, shrug.
  • Bigbrothad7
    Bigbrothad7 Posts: 16 Just Dropped In
    Like the breakdown of chances that several of you gave but in mind we did not lose the luck of the draw. This is a to get a little more control in what character you want. It seems some of the users want this game to be straight up easy to get all the players for free but there should be some challenges and some higher degree to the game.