I Miss that "Yes!!!! I got a Bonus Hero" Feeling

Ugh

shardwick said:

I pulled a 3* from a standard token today. Made me sad when I didn't get a bonus hero with it even though I knew I wasn't going to get one anyway. Also, I've had that carrot feeling already today but it just doesn't compare to getting a bonus hero. Just had a thought. If you can collect shards and put them towards one cover for a character then you should also be able to destroy a cover that you don't want and receive shards from it and then put those shards towards a character you do want. 

On the flip side when I opened up the mini horde of standards on my two accounts, 72 in total, and got a whopping 5 2*'s and 67 1* I was happy I got something for them

broll

Phumade said:

LOL. Everyone who posts they miss that BH feeling is literally telling them that you want the RNG back in the game.  That feeling is the explicit reason they have loot boxes LOL

Agreed. I’m surprised they made the shard change for this exact reason.  The optimistic side says this is basically part one of a multiphase change and phase two or three will implement a new RNG cover system to replace that feeling that’s better than BH was. 

DAZ0273

broll said:

Phumade said:

LOL. Everyone who posts they miss that BH feeling is literally telling them that you want the RNG back in the game.  That feeling is the explicit reason they have loot boxes LOL

Agreed. I’m surprised they made the shard change for this exact reason.  The optimistic side says this is basically part one of a multiphase change and phase two or three will implement a new RNG cover system to replace that feeling that’s better than BH was. 

Whoa...I thought you were dead, dude?!?!

broll

DAZ0273 said:

broll said:

Phumade said:

LOL. Everyone who posts they miss that BH feeling is literally telling them that you want the RNG back in the game.  That feeling is the explicit reason they have loot boxes LOL

Agreed. I’m surprised they made the shard change for this exact reason.  The optimistic side says this is basically part one of a multiphase change and phase two or three will implement a new RNG cover system to replace that feeling that’s better than BH was. 

Whoa...I thought you were dead, dude?!?!

No, just quit for 9 or 10 months

KGB

broll said:

DAZ0273 said:

broll said:

Phumade said:

LOL. Everyone who posts they miss that BH feeling is literally telling them that you want the RNG back in the game.  That feeling is the explicit reason they have loot boxes LOL

Agreed. I’m surprised they made the shard change for this exact reason.  The optimistic side says this is basically part one of a multiphase change and phase two or three will implement a new RNG cover system to replace that feeling that’s better than BH was. 

Whoa...I thought you were dead, dude?!?!

No, just quit for 9 or 10 months

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UneS2Uwc6xw

Welcome back

KGB

Chameleon

JHawkInc said:

My last five 5-star Bonus Heroes were disappointing, because they were the wrong color.

Good riddance.

Yes, we're using a fun "surprise" factor. And I would totally be on board with suggesting the devs find a way to bring back that element in some other feature in the future (maybe a rare big reward, like an LT, in the daily Resupply? only idea I have at the moment).

But I'll take "no surprise" over "bad surprise" any day. As nice as the excitement is for getting a good bonus hero, it doesn't balance out the disappointment of getting one and feeling like it was wasted. So drop the surprise altogether, and let me get what I actually want.

I guess the difference for me was that I was happy to get the bonus hero when I did, even if it had to be saved.  Maybe it was just the flashy effect or the fact that I love the colour purple.

Chameleon

Wonko33 said:

depends if you are a "carrot" type or "gambler" type i guess

Carrot people like to see the progress, approaching a goal

Gamblers like the endorphins of the lucky hit

I just don't like feeling like my investments, time.. money.. resources or otherwise, have been wasted.

Chameleon

Daredevil217 said:

shardwick said:

I pulled a 3* from a standard token today. Made me sad when I didn't get a bonus hero with it even though I knew I wasn't going to get one anyway. Also, I've had that carrot feeling already today but it just doesn't compare to getting a bonus hero. Just had a thought. If you can collect shards and put them towards one cover for a character then you should also be able to destroy a cover that you don't want and receive shards from it and then put those shards towards a character you do want. 

I like the idea of “breaking down” covers into shards but the payout couldn’t be 1:1. You’d just 550 three characters, break them down and 550 three new characters lol. Have the new meta instantly. 

I took it to mean breaking down pending covers on our vines (3*s for the shargeted 3*(s), 4s for 4s, 5s for 5s).  Not that it was intended that way by shardwick but I liked that idea.

broll

Chameleon said:

Wonko33 said:

depends if you are a "carrot" type or "gambler" type i guess

Carrot people like to see the progress, approaching a goal

Gamblers like the endorphins of the lucky hit

I just don't like feeling like my investments, time.. money.. resources or otherwise, have been wasted.

How is that different now then before?
if you were chasing 1 cover there was a 66.7% chance your ‘effort’ would go to ‘waste’ with BH.  The fact that you could change your BH and luck out and pull that character on the next pull is I’m guessing what you’re meaning.  It would be nice if you collected shards for a tier vs for just a single character but I think that would make the system to powerful for the devs to ever implement.  

Ultimately wether anything is ‘wasted’ is totally a fabrication created by your mindset.  With this system from my mindset it’s ensuring nothing will ever be wasted. What I mean by this is:
- No 'It took me 20% before I got my BH instead of the intended 5%' (I think that’s what it is, I just got back so if that’s wrong someone correct me). 

- No ‘I had x 5* favorited for 9 months and never pulled him once. '

With this system every single pull is progress. 

With this system you have predictable/plannable progression beside your unplannable ridiculously over-diluted RNG. 
Nothing is ‘wasted’ you just might not get exactly what you want. It’s like the difference between playing the lottery vs putting that same cost into a bank account. You’ll rarely win in the lottery, but while it’s not as exciting you’re continuing to build up money with every transaction.  You could say you ‘wasted’ that money if the numbers you would have picked do get pulled, but there was no guarantee that was going to happen. By not playing the lottery nothing was ‘wasted’ you still added money to your account, you just didn’t get a potential exciting windfall of money. 

Wonko33

broll said:

Chameleon said:

Wonko33 said:

depends if you are a "carrot" type or "gambler" type i guess

Carrot people like to see the progress, approaching a goal

Gamblers like the endorphins of the lucky hit

I just don't like feeling like my investments, time.. money.. resources or otherwise, have been wasted.

How is that different now then before?
if you were chasing 1 cover there was a 66.7% chance your ‘effort’ would go to ‘waste’ with BH.  The fact that you could change your BH and luck out and pull that character on the next pull is I’m guessing what you’re meaning.  It would be nice if you collected shards for a tier vs for just a single character but I think that would make the system to powerful for the devs to ever implement.  

Ultimately wether anything is ‘wasted’ is totally a fabrication created by your mindset.  With this system from my mindset it’s ensuring nothing will ever be wasted. What I mean by this is:
- No 'It took me 20% before I got my BH instead of the intended 5%' (I think that’s what it is, I just got back so if that’s wrong someone correct me). 

- No ‘I had x 5* favorited for 9 months and never pulled him once. '

With this system every single pull is progress. 

With this system you have predictable/plannable progression beside your unplannable ridiculously over-diluted RNG. 
Nothing is ‘wasted’ you just might not get exactly what you want. It’s like the difference between playing the lottery vs putting that same cost into a bank account. You’ll rarely win in the lottery, but while it’s not as exciting you’re continuing to build up money with every transaction.  You could say you ‘wasted’ that money if the numbers you would have picked do get pulled, but there was no guarantee that was going to happen. By not playing the lottery nothing was ‘wasted’ you still added money to your account, you just didn’t get a potential exciting windfall of money. 

CARROT MAN!!!!

spatenfloot

broll said:

Chameleon said:

Wonko33 said:

depends if you are a "carrot" type or "gambler" type i guess

Carrot people like to see the progress, approaching a goal

Gamblers like the endorphins of the lucky hit

I just don't like feeling like my investments, time.. money.. resources or otherwise, have been wasted.

How is that different now then before?
if you were chasing 1 cover there was a 66.7% chance your ‘effort’ would go to ‘waste’ with BH.  The fact that you could change your BH and luck out and pull that character on the next pull is I’m guessing what you’re meaning.  It would be nice if you collected shards for a tier vs for just a single character but I think that would make the system to powerful for the devs to ever implement.  

Ultimately wether anything is ‘wasted’ is totally a fabrication created by your mindset.  With this system from my mindset it’s ensuring nothing will ever be wasted. What I mean by this is:
- No 'It took me 20% before I got my BH instead of the intended 5%' (I think that’s what it is, I just got back so if that’s wrong someone correct me). 

- No ‘I had x 5* favorited for 9 months and never pulled him once. '

With this system every single pull is progress. 

With this system you have predictable/plannable progression beside your unplannable ridiculously over-diluted RNG. 
Nothing is ‘wasted’ you just might not get exactly what you want. It’s like the difference between playing the lottery vs putting that same cost into a bank account. You’ll rarely win in the lottery, but while it’s not as exciting you’re continuing to build up money with every transaction.  You could say you ‘wasted’ that money if the numbers you would have picked do get pulled, but there was no guarantee that was going to happen. By not playing the lottery nothing was ‘wasted’ you still added money to your account, you just didn’t get a potential exciting windfall of money. 

This is a game. Players want excitement, not a savings account earning 0.15%

broll

Wonko33 said:

CARROT MAN!!!!

With the powers of impeccable dark vision

spatenfloot said:

This is a game. Players want excitement, not a savings account earning 0.15%

I guess that depends on the player.  You know there are entire games around business  sims right?  

ZootSax

broll said:

spatenfloot said:

This is a game. Players want excitement, not a savings account earning 0.15%

I guess that depends on the player.  You know there are entire games around business  sims right?  

Yeah character farming is pretty much mandatory to maintain higher tier play without spending a lot more real-world currency...oh, wait.   You meant OTHER games based around business sims.  My bad... :P 

Also, welcome back @broll

KGB

broll said:

With this system every single pull is progress. 

With this system you have predictable/plannable progression beside your unplannable ridiculously over-diluted RNG. 
Nothing is ‘wasted’ you just might not get exactly what you want. It’s like the difference between playing the lottery vs putting that same cost into a bank account.

The problem is the as much the time component, as the 'waste' component.

At a rate of opening 2 LT's a day it will take roughly 3 months (90 days) to earn 1 5* BH. If you are 60 days in and get the last cover you need you don't lose your shards, but you absolutely DO lose 60 days worth of time invested that could have been invested in a different 5* character.

1 champ level is no where near as valuable as fully covering a character is (esp if you don't even have the ISO to champ them to get the champ level) so you are left with the ugly choice of continuing on for 30 more days for 1 champ level then ANOTHER 90 days for a BH for another 5* character you really want or abandoning your 60 days of effort and starting fresh on the 5* character you now want to cover.

For players trying to cover characters this is a nightmare scenario that's going to lead to a lot of frustration.

The worst part of this is that they didn't have to do this at all. A generic shard pool at each tier fixes the entire problem instead of generating a lot of ill-will.

KGB

spatenfloot

broll said:

Wonko33 said:

CARROT MAN!!!!

With the powers of impeccable dark vision

spatenfloot said:

This is a game. Players want excitement, not a savings account earning 0.15%

I guess that depends on the player.  You know there are entire games around business  sims right?  

Yes, but that isn't what this game is supposed to be. It isn't Stark Industries Tax Attorney simulation. 

broll

spatenfloot said:

broll said:

Wonko33 said:

CARROT MAN!!!!

With the powers of impeccable dark vision

spatenfloot said:

This is a game. Players want excitement, not a savings account earning 0.15%

I guess that depends on the player.  You know there are entire games around business  sims right?  

Yes, but that isn't what this game is supposed to be. It isn't Stark Industries Tax Attorney simulation. 

Define "supposed to be".  That would ultimately be developer digression since they are the ones who design it and there for know what it is "supposed to be"  That being said the planning of building the roster is my favorite part and I know for a fact I'm not alone, it's been talked about on the forums by many.  So I'd be surprised if that aspect is not considered into design.

broll

KGB said:

The worst part of this is that they didn't have to do this at all. A generic shard pool at each tier fixes the entire problem instead of generating a lot of ill-will.

KGB

Yeah they could just give us 10 LTs & 10,000 HP per event also....  As nice as it being tier based sounds, that would take away too much RNG.  As much as I hate RNG it is a part of the game that has to exist if it's still gonna be game.  Your suggestion IMO is unbalanced, I did put in my idea for a similar solution in the suggestion thread:

broll said:

Many people have suggested open shards per tier, I think that's probably a little to open, but there should be something to allow us to recover shards that some consider 'wasted'.

Have the ability to convert shards from one character to another for a cost or be able to sell them for resources (if sold for resources the resources should be based on tier 3* sell for ISO, 4* sell for HP, 5* sell for CP)

Example:
I'm chasing my 13th cover for X 5*.  I pull it organically when I have 470/500 shards.  Many players consider that now to be wasted effort/resources.  Give us the ability sell and/or convert those shards to a different character with some penalty (have to pay ISO, only 2/3rds of the shards transfer, you can't trade them but you can trade them in for other resources, etc)

purplemur

case in point:  I had my 3*TH on both Angel & Doom. Angel was one away from max champ and Doom was one cover away from IW. puled an organic doom cover at the same time I got enough shards to get a free level for him. So I got an IW cover and 500 iso. Was it wasted? Technically:NO it wasn't as I got something back.
Was it what I wanted: No. Was the opportunity cost of an extra doom vs max champ angel worth it? no.
So for the 4 or 5 forumites still taking the fight to everyone else challenging us about how stupid we are for calling it "waste"- pull your heads out your tinykitty and stop being so pedantic.
 You obviously know that most players are not gonna be psyched for an odd champ level. most players are not going to be happy that they have excess shards on a 5* that they spent a long time chasing. To just gloss over that with whatever I am a top player and only pull from latest's is such entitled tinykitty. That is the same players who are attacking everyone else by smearing behavior calling us chicken little like the sky is falling. No we just don't like 10% less covers, we don't like the delay, we don't like the lack of fluidity when cashing in resources. The reasons why have been very explicit, thorough, and widely similar over multiple threads. At what point do the players earn the legitimacy of acknowledging their voices? 
but still there are those few who want to call 30 pages of "feedback" as the minority, they want to make out that if we don't like it it is because of our own stupidity for having expectations(but then hold a BH on a char despite multiple "wasted" 5* BH), They want to make it out that percentages lie and most players have bad outlying luck with BH rates, Call everyone else in the room irrational but fail to understand why using basic human psychology players would have an emotional reaction to surprise free covers because of course they do that's how brains work,  They attack us for acting like we are the only type of player but then actively go after people with the tact of that doesn't apply to me because the way I play is perfect (read better than you) : just total double speak and disingenuous at best and loathsome trolling at worst.  

Shards could have been a compliment to Bonus Heroes, you don't fix dilution by giving out less covers.

broll

purplemur said:

So for the 4 or 5 forumites still taking the fight to everyone else challenging us about how stupid we are for calling it "waste"- pull your heads out your tinykitty and stop being so pedantic.

I haven't seen anyone say people saying people saying 'wasted' are stupid, however you're saying we have anal-cranial inversion?  To paraphrase the bible, Why do you look at the nose slightly in your brother’s tinykitty and pay no attention to the fact that your neck deep in your own tinykitty?

purplemur said:

but still there are those few who want to call 30 pages of "feedback" as the minority, they want to make out that if we don't like it it is because of our own stupidity for having expectations(but then hold a BH on a char despite multiple "wasted" 5* BH), They want to make it out that percentages lie and most players have bad outlying luck with BH rates, Call everyone else in the room irrational but fail to understand why using basic human psychology players would have an emotional reaction to surprise free covers because of course they do that's how brains work,  They attack us for acting like we are the only type of player but then actively go after people with the tact of that doesn't apply to me because the way I play is perfect (read better than you) : just total double speak and disingenuous at best and loathsome trolling at worst.  

Your post is the first message I've seen that it is blatantly an attack on anyone since I returned to the forum (maybe I've missed them, prove me wrong).  Not sure how you're advocating for de-escalating by actively escalating.  

KGB

broll said:

KGB said:

The worst part of this is that they didn't have to do this at all. A generic shard pool at each tier fixes the entire problem instead of generating a lot of ill-will.

KGB

Yeah they could just give us 10 LTs & 10,000 HP per event also....  As nice as it being tier based sounds, that would take away too much RNG.  As much as I hate RNG it is a part of the game that has to exist if it's still gonna be game.  Your suggestion IMO is unbalanced, I did put in my idea for a similar solution in the suggestion thread:

Why do you think it's unbalanced?

The TH (shard) system gives LESS covers than BH did. About 20% less so we are down to a fixed 4% rate overall (with the added ability to select the covers color) from a 5% random rate. Selecting a color is very valuable for non-champed characters but once the character is champed and you are earning bonus levels the color doesn't matter.

Given we are getting fewer covers I don't think asking for generic shard pools is unbalanced. In fact asking for this is similar to how the Forum asked for and got the conversion factor on 5* covers reduced from 5-1 to 3-1. It's really 5* covers that need the generic shard pool.

And yes, I read your 'tax' suggestion and others have posted something similar. I'd be OK with a small tax penalty to transfer over shards from character X to character Y. Especially if purchasing VIP got the tax rate reduced to 0%!

KGB