Bishop and Claws of Concern

Tony_Foot

Yeah I don’t think kitty needs a rework at all but removing grocket and then having kitty’s natural partner another 5* should help the 4* game. Id be behind an adjustment to both. But I think I’ve got more chance of being asked to be the next man on the moon.

So for now I enjoy DD and BSSM gritty when I see them for 75 points. And skip bishop.

tiomono

spidyjedi84 said:

BigSoftieFF said:

Worst character in the game by far. There is exactly 1 counter to him if you’re in the 5* tier and that is having a big SS of all things. He makes me actively enjoy the game less.

And I don't see that as an issue, either. Just because 5-stars have to take off auto-pilot to play is not a bad thing. The "nerf this character who I don't like because he makes winning for me no longer guaranteed" is getting old.

It's not that 5* players have to come off "autopilot". 

Personally I dont think bishop needs nerfed. I say he is a problem. I feel the better way to "fix" him is to release a 5* that counters him like archangel counters vulture, or bssm counters grocket. Maybe someone that punishes characters that jump to the front by stunning or sending them airborne. Or just flat out prevents a jump all together. A very situational skill but handles a problem.

So like a 5* bullseye. He never misses his desired target. You could assign a target each turn. That character will take the damage from team matches or from bullseye's other powers. So you could leave bishop up front if you wanted and hit his teamates instead.

LavaManLee

HoundofShadow said:

Champed 5* Ice man + 3 blue ap could shut down bishop.

Oh, is that all?  :-)

bluewolf

The problem is that Bishop does everything on a passive basis.  I'm not sure that the game has the ability to start pre-empting passives; if it does, I'm not sure the devs want to go there as it's probably really hard to make work right in terms of order of operations.

You can't counter Bishop based on reacting instantly to his passives.  The game lets passives and their effects occur first before anything else happens.

Archie counters Vulture based on him being Airborne at the start of his turn.....BSSM's passive is basically always on.

Someone that locked people into position (can't jump in front) would presumably create a ton of bugs.

ThaRoadWarrior

Does Archangel's Aerial Superiority power shut down passive AP gain and match 4 tangential gain? Rogue's Gloves Off only stops direct AP gain from matches, so using that to siphon blue off 4ocket doesn't prevent Bishop building it up or match 4s from skimming it. Doesn't really matter I guess in the end since Kitty would just gobble the tiles up.

pheregas

Nobody deserves punishment but considering how there is a wall of Gritty everywhere impeding a lot of play (like above 1800 in Shield Sim) it is just mildly amusing to see Gritty abusers complaining.

No offence was intended to anybody, sorry if Bishop caused issues for an event, for many players (not so much me) Gritty is a pain 95% of the time!

Bishop is why I switched from 2k progression to wins-based.  I just Thorokye with Sabretooth my way to 75 and hang out until the end of season.  So much less stress.

Tony_Foot

Yeah I did the same two seasons ago and tbh it’s not that much more work. I’m normally done easily with 20 days left and I can forget it. Okoye Thor and xpool and ride the retal train no matter what the points are. Zero health packs used and zero problems.

tiomono

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

Did you just have a champed Kitty or did she have a trash loving friend with her? Coz, if the second option then...well sympathy might be low? Sorry.

Actually gritty is probably the closest to a bishop counter the 5* tier has short of silver surfer. They can buff up high enough to kill him quick if you can avoid kitty taking the first stun.

Yeah, not really what I was getting at.

So it was more of a "you have one of the meta teams so you deserve punishment"? 

Bishop is a good character in 4* land. He is an unbearable monster in 5* land. For me he is about on par with prenerf gambit if you didnt have your own gambit. Beatable but not really worth the hassle.

If you are a 5* player and "luck into a turn 1 cascade vs bishop, you just ate at least 8k damage and gave the enemy team at least 10 blue. Which if bishop is their only blue user also stuns one of your characters for 4 turns.

That would be like letting defensive thors start matches at 50% health. He is a problem.

Nobody deserves punishment but considering how there is a wall of Gritty everywhere impeding a lot of play (like above 1800 in Shield Sim) it is just mildly amusing to see Gritty abusers complaining.

No offence was intended to anybody, sorry if Bishop caused issues for an event, for many players (not so much me) Gritty is a pain 95% of the time!

No offense taken by me. But bishop is not a gritty issue. He is a 5* tier issue. If any 5* makes a match in any of their strong colors vs a 276 bishop they just ate 3902 damage and gave the enemy 5 blue. The 3 ap the 5* player gained just doesn't compare. Unbuffed with 16,007 hp he gets to do that to your team 8 times unless you can nuke him fast. That's 40 blue and 31,216 damage for just being on the board dying instead of a teammate.

He badly needs a character designed to counter him. Silver surfer is not the answer. He may not be able to be stunned, but he does nothing about the damage and massive ap gain that bishop does vs 5* teams. 

DAZ0273

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

Did you just have a champed Kitty or did she have a trash loving friend with her? Coz, if the second option then...well sympathy might be low? Sorry.

Actually gritty is probably the closest to a bishop counter the 5* tier has short of silver surfer. They can buff up high enough to kill him quick if you can avoid kitty taking the first stun.

Yeah, not really what I was getting at.

So it was more of a "you have one of the meta teams so you deserve punishment"? 

Bishop is a good character in 4* land. He is an unbearable monster in 5* land. For me he is about on par with prenerf gambit if you didnt have your own gambit. Beatable but not really worth the hassle.

If you are a 5* player and "luck into a turn 1 cascade vs bishop, you just ate at least 8k damage and gave the enemy team at least 10 blue. Which if bishop is their only blue user also stuns one of your characters for 4 turns.

That would be like letting defensive thors start matches at 50% health. He is a problem.

Nobody deserves punishment but considering how there is a wall of Gritty everywhere impeding a lot of play (like above 1800 in Shield Sim) it is just mildly amusing to see Gritty abusers complaining.

No offence was intended to anybody, sorry if Bishop caused issues for an event, for many players (not so much me) Gritty is a pain 95% of the time!

No offense taken by me. But bishop is not a gritty issue. He is a 5* tier issue. If any 5* makes a match in any of their strong colors vs a 276 bishop they just ate 3902 damage and gave the enemy 5 blue. The 3 ap the 5* player gained just doesn't compare. Unbuffed with 16,007 hp he gets to do that to your team 8 times unless you can nuke him fast. That's 40 blue and 31,216 damage for just being on the board dying instead of a teammate.

He badly needs a character designed to counter him. Silver surfer is not the answer. He may not be able to be stunned, but he does nothing about the damage and massive ap gain that bishop does vs 5* teams. 

I simply referred to what the OP said, I had no intention of commenting on the wider debate to be honest.

We all know Gritty gets spammed to hell (Bishop probably does too but I don't come up against him as early and as widely as I do Gritty) and so the complaint just made me chuckle. I actually like @qandols the thread starter quite a lot from our interactions on the boards so it definitely wasn't meant as mean spirited as it possibly came across. I guess I have a strange sense of humour - it was sort of along the lines of the prison guards getting put in prison for one day and complaining about THEIR prison guards type analogy.

Projectus2501

I really must say, this PVP makes me want to quit. So sick and tired of getting pummeled by bishop and bad boards here. Having your champed Kitty killed on the second enemy draw every game is not normal. Do something to even out this mess please.

The more ppl trash talk a char the more the Devs see potential to gain cash I bet. You now have 5* iceman to join bishop.

Have fun!

ThaRoadWarrior

I got the joke. My sympathy garden is in full bloom for Gritty fielders who are having trouble with Gritty teams lol

A_Wise_Man

Couple things I find funny in this thread.  Someone commented that bishop is good in the 4* tier where he belongs....because hes a good gritty counter.  Forgive me if I'm wrong, but does 4* play now consist of having champed 5*?  If it's not, then the argument makes no sense.  Bishop is awful to play against as a 5* player for all the reasons listed.  The real issues are that his trigger point is so ridiculously low (even boosted to like level 400 he triggers off of regular match damage).  He produces way too much AP and/or has a stun that is entirely too cheap or just lasts entirely too long.  You dont need to play smarter.  You need to bring surfer or doc ock or both, and neither one of them is doing you any good. 

Events where bishop is buffed it's even more ridiculous.  He will still trigger off match damage, but instead of having to do like 17k damage you need to do like 30k damage to down him to actually play.  By the time you do that you're either dead or in awful shape compared to the AI.  I dont know how he was even released this way, never mind being allowed to continue to be broken.  He could be fixed and still be good at the 4 star tier.  Having him negate 5 stars is bad design and is super frustrating to play against.  I gave up and quit last pvp because he was on literally every team.  Oh, incidentally, anyone that's running Bishop is a huge part of the problem.  If hes being run all the time the devs will assume that hes popular and players like him.  Nobody likes him.  People just dont like losing points in pvp and know they'll get skips with him out.  

TPF Alexis

A_Wise_Man said:

Couple things I find funny in this thread.  Someone commented that bishop is good in the 4* tier where he belongs....because hes a good gritty counter.  Forgive me if I'm wrong, but does 4* play now consist of having champed 5*?

Even one yellow cover for Kitty starts making her very dangerous to 4* along with Grocket. No need for her to be champed. It's definitely an issue in the 4* tier right now.

A_Wise_Man

TPF Alexis said:

A_Wise_Man said:

Couple things I find funny in this thread.  Someone commented that bishop is good in the 4* tier where he belongs....because hes a good gritty counter.  Forgive me if I'm wrong, but does 4* play now consist of having champed 5*?

Even one yellow cover for Kitty starts making her very dangerous to 4* along with Grocket. No need for her to be champed. It's definitely an issue in the 4* tier right now.

Fair point.  But then rocket has been a thorn in the side of 4 star play since his release, and I doubt that's going away any time soon. Kitty just exacerbates the issue.