Bishop and Claws of Concern

qandols

I really must say, this PVP makes me want to quit. So sick and tired of getting pummeled by bishop and bad boards here. Having your champed Kitty killed on the second enemy draw every game is not normal. Do something to even out this mess please.

DAZ0273

Did you just have a champed Kitty or did she have a trash loving friend with her? Coz, if the second option then...well sympathy might be low? Sorry.

qandols

Guess it has to do with the trashy wolvie she has to drag around, doing nuttin' good.

tiomono

DAZ0273 said:

Did you just have a champed Kitty or did she have a trash loving friend with her? Coz, if the second option then...well sympathy might be low? Sorry.

Actually gritty is probably the closest to a bishop counter the 5* tier has short of silver surfer. They can buff up high enough to kill him quick if you can avoid kitty taking the first stun.

658_2

Bishop’s not even hard to basically fix. Condition his blue to only work if he has more health than his teammates, a la Thing.

DAZ0273

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

Did you just have a champed Kitty or did she have a trash loving friend with her? Coz, if the second option then...well sympathy might be low? Sorry.

Actually gritty is probably the closest to a bishop counter the 5* tier has short of silver surfer. They can buff up high enough to kill him quick if you can avoid kitty taking the first stun.

Yeah, not really what I was getting at.

shardwick

Tony_Foot said:

Don’t worry next event has boosted kitty bishop and prof x. Sadly they forgot to boost grocket.

Its not worth complaining at this point anymore, games on autopilot they don’t give a tinykitty.

Play until you no longer find it fun, pointless wasting time highlighting stuff on here unless it’s a bug.

And they yawn at the bugs unless it's one that benefits the player then they'll fix it immediately. 

AlexR

658_2 said:

Bishop’s not even hard to basically fix. Condition his blue to only work if he has more health than his teammates, a la Thing.

That wouldn't "fix" him, that'd be a huuuuuuuge nerf. Thing is bottom tier and barely used and should not really be your template for fixes.

In 4* land -- where Bishop is actually supposed to work -- he's meta-relevant and valuable because he's a great and actually reliable Gritty counter. Due to Kitty's buffing, the strike tile damage escalates every turn, so you take higher damage every turn.

If you changed Bishop's blue to only trigger when he has higher health than his team mates, then you would get 1 single trigger of his blue out of him (which isn't enough to even stun Kitty or do anything). At the start of the battle. That's basically it. Gritty do too much damage too quickly to keep Bishop's health higher than his team mates, since his red makes him keep jumping in front of his team mates. And if you want to "fix" both his red and blue to only trigger when he has more health, then his red would also become useless since it needs him to take high damage (reducing the chance that he will have higher health for it to trigger) without doing anything to reduce the damage taken a la Thing (or even having anywhere near Thing's high health).

That "fix" would change him from meta-relevant in 4* land due to being a Gritty counter to basically trash. Do not want. 

I fully understand that Bishop causes unintended issues for 5* players and that should be adjusted. But I'd like to avoid murder-nerf hammer the main Gritty counter team in 4* land (Bishop/Deadpool) because that one actually works reliably. 

JSP869

My 2-cent: a Bishop "fix" would be where Overclocked's threshold is high enough that it's not triggered by a 5*s match-3. The problem is some baby Champion 5s can do 2k+ damage from a match 3.
451 Doom, Yellow match 3 = 2025 
454 Jessica, Red match 3 = 2097
455 DD, Yellow match 3 = 2064

By contrast, Overclocked for my 278 Bishop procs at 936 damage.
Hmm. 405 Silver Surfer, so not a Champion, but still a 400+ 5*, a match 3 in red, blue, or black will all proc Overclocked.

Without a good Kitty (1/-/1), I could try running Okoye with my own Bishop and +Team Up boosts right out of the gate, but I'll just get carved up by other 5* teams.

So here's another solution. Give us a 5* PvP that is 5*s only + the Essential. No 4*s, no R4G, no XPool, and no Bishop. Just 5*s + the Essential. Thoughts?

tiomono

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

Did you just have a champed Kitty or did she have a trash loving friend with her? Coz, if the second option then...well sympathy might be low? Sorry.

Actually gritty is probably the closest to a bishop counter the 5* tier has short of silver surfer. They can buff up high enough to kill him quick if you can avoid kitty taking the first stun.

Yeah, not really what I was getting at.

So it was more of a "you have one of the meta teams so you deserve punishment"? 

Bishop is a good character in 4* land. He is an unbearable monster in 5* land. For me he is about on par with prenerf gambit if you didnt have your own gambit. Beatable but not really worth the hassle.

If you are a 5* player and "luck into a turn 1 cascade vs bishop, you just ate at least 8k damage and gave the enemy team at least 10 blue. Which if bishop is their only blue user also stuns one of your characters for 4 turns.

That would be like letting defensive thors start matches at 50% health. He is a problem.

658_2

You make good points AlexR.

I was conflating his red and blue a bit in my mind, and was thinking the blue was the jump to the front power. A better way to do it, he should only jump to the front if he has higher health than his teammate, so leave the blue the same. So you still get the benefits on offense (when matching his colors), but he loses his absurd defensive power.

spidyjedi84

Sorry. Shedding no tears for a roster with a champed Kitty. You're not dominating the meta. Bishop's doing what he was designed to do.

Borstock

They could probably just change it so Bishop can't stun a character if one is already stunned. Give it a condition where "if a character on the enemy team is stunned, this power becomes X" and then it does something else. If you want him to stay a Gritty counter, maybe he removes specials or something.  

BigSoftieFF

Worst character in the game by far. There is exactly 1 counter to him if you’re in the 5* tier and that is having a big SS of all things. He makes me actively enjoy the game less.

wymtime

I used DD and God Doom with OML almost the whole event just to do things differently.  It was a nice change of pace and still got above 1200.  I switched out Doom for BSSM for some gritty kitty teams

spidyjedi84

BigSoftieFF said:

Worst character in the game by far. There is exactly 1 counter to him if you’re in the 5* tier and that is having a big SS of all things. He makes me actively enjoy the game less.

And I don't see that as an issue, either. Just because 5-stars have to take off auto-pilot to play is not a bad thing. The "nerf this character who I don't like because he makes winning for me no longer guaranteed" is getting old.

jamesh

Also, Silver Surfer isn't the only 5* with stun immunity today.

HoundofShadow

Champed 5* Ice man + 3 blue ap could shut down bishop.

BigSoftieFF

spidyjedi84 said:

BigSoftieFF said:

Worst character in the game by far. There is exactly 1 counter to him if you’re in the 5* tier and that is having a big SS of all things. He makes me actively enjoy the game less.

And I don't see that as an issue, either. Just because 5-stars have to take off auto-pilot to play is not a bad thing. The "nerf this character who I don't like because he makes winning for me no longer guaranteed" is getting old.

The fact is he has very few counters that are meaningful in any way. I could use 4*’s and beat him all day with no issues but my Mmr will show that team to every 5* roster out there....no thanks.

DAZ0273

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

tiomono said:

DAZ0273 said:

Did you just have a champed Kitty or did she have a trash loving friend with her? Coz, if the second option then...well sympathy might be low? Sorry.

Actually gritty is probably the closest to a bishop counter the 5* tier has short of silver surfer. They can buff up high enough to kill him quick if you can avoid kitty taking the first stun.

Yeah, not really what I was getting at.

So it was more of a "you have one of the meta teams so you deserve punishment"? 

Bishop is a good character in 4* land. He is an unbearable monster in 5* land. For me he is about on par with prenerf gambit if you didnt have your own gambit. Beatable but not really worth the hassle.

If you are a 5* player and "luck into a turn 1 cascade vs bishop, you just ate at least 8k damage and gave the enemy team at least 10 blue. Which if bishop is their only blue user also stuns one of your characters for 4 turns.

That would be like letting defensive thors start matches at 50% health. He is a problem.

Nobody deserves punishment but considering how there is a wall of Gritty everywhere impeding a lot of play (like above 1800 in Shield Sim) it is just mildly amusing to see Gritty abusers complaining.

No offence was intended to anybody, sorry if Bishop caused issues for an event, for many players (not so much me) Gritty is a pain 95% of the time!

tiomono

spidyjedi84 said:

BigSoftieFF said:

Worst character in the game by far. There is exactly 1 counter to him if you’re in the 5* tier and that is having a big SS of all things. He makes me actively enjoy the game less.

And I don't see that as an issue, either. Just because 5-stars have to take off auto-pilot to play is not a bad thing. The "nerf this character who I don't like because he makes winning for me no longer guaranteed" is getting old.

It's not that 5* players have to come off "autopilot". 

Personally I dont think bishop needs nerfed. I say he is a problem. I feel the better way to "fix" him is to release a 5* that counters him like archangel counters vulture, or bssm counters grocket. Maybe someone that punishes characters that jump to the front by stunning or sending them airborne. Or just flat out prevents a jump all together. A very situational skill but handles a problem.

So like a 5* bullseye. He never misses his desired target. You could assign a target each turn. That character will take the damage from team matches or from bullseye's other powers. So you could leave bishop up front if you wanted and hit his teamates instead.