What do you want adjusted or changed in PvP?

DAZ0273

The seed teams are only there to inject points into the shard early on as there aren't any players with points. They aren't actually meant as a free gift, they are just the "start button" - you couldn't otherwise get any points from your first match at the beginning of the event.

Rod5

jackstar0 said:

Whether you're someone who already plays PvP or someone who avoids it completely, what would you like to see adjusted or improved?

Would boosting 5*s make it worse? If sheild prices were adjusted would that help?

I'm consistently able to hit the 1200 prog, but finding that to not really pay off in placement like some might think. Also watching people hit 3k or even 4k or more in a single event is both perplexing and disheartening. Is it all coordination? I can't be bothered with Line or Discord, so does that just limit my ability to score in an event? Should it?

Is there an answer? Or am I just waiting for an overhaul of some kind?

I say I, but I don't think I'm the only one not feeling PvP these days.

What say you, members of the board?

Honestly, you are unlikely to get to the really big scores without co-ordination. Line gives you sight of when everyone worth anything in the slice is unshielding, not to mention protection from many of those below you. We play the same slice, I’m sure you’ll have seen me. 

Line helps people who are prepared to play and use shields a lot to get a better chance of placement. It’s also a time sink and not for everyone, but the community is often good fun and entertaining. 

If you are desperate for placement there are much better slices, especially 2 and 5, but you will never get a bigger score in either of those because reasons.

It’s your choice basically.

A_Wise_Man

Rod5 said:

jackstar0 said:

Whether you're someone who already plays PvP or someone who avoids it completely, what would you like to see adjusted or improved?

Would boosting 5*s make it worse? If sheild prices were adjusted would that help?

I'm consistently able to hit the 1200 prog, but finding that to not really pay off in placement like some might think. Also watching people hit 3k or even 4k or more in a single event is both perplexing and disheartening. Is it all coordination? I can't be bothered with Line or Discord, so does that just limit my ability to score in an event? Should it?

Is there an answer? Or am I just waiting for an overhaul of some kind?

I say I, but I don't think I'm the only one not feeling PvP these days.

What say you, members of the board?

Honestly, you are unlikely to get to the really big scores without co-ordination. Line gives you sight of when everyone worth anything in the slice is unshielding, not to mention protection from many of those below you. We play the same slice, I’m sure you’ll have seen me. 

Line helps people who are prepared to play and use shields a lot to get a better chance of placement. It’s also a time sink and not for everyone, but the community is often good fun and entertaining. 

If you are desperate for placement there are much better slices, especially 2 and 5, but you will never get a bigger score in either of those because reasons.

It’s your choice basically.

Double edged sword.  While it can sometimes help with placement, it's not necessary at all.  It may be necessary to go above 1200 if you're in a higher scoring shard, and it may require multiple shields, depending on when and how fast you can climb.  Line helps because a few players will agree not to hit you, but it's not the way it used to be when 5s were new.  A lot of players outside Line have 5s now, so maybe 1/3 to 1/2 at most of the people who hit you will skip.  However, you'll have to wait to hit people as well, and it takes a lot longer to play an event.  Proceed with caution. 

spidyjedi84

captainheath said:

PiMacleod said:

I always thought a star cap method would be fun.  With allowance for teams smaller than 3.

For example: if the next PvP had a star cap of 10, you could use two 3* characters and a 4*, or two 4*s and a 2*... Or even just two 5*s.

This could change things up drastically...  And it could be easily changed for other PvPs by just changing the star cap.  Maybe the next one would allow only 9* total...

Just another random thought.

I like it.  I think things like this should happen regularly and each PVP should be little different.  Different flavors of PVPs would make it far more interesting.  The idea of just changing the character that is in the middle every 3 days is boring.

In my mind, it would help larger rosters, too, because they'd have more variations to pull from in that limitation and it would make you use and know more of your roster and their synergies. I really like this idea to help reinvigorate PvP from the metas.

ZootSax

PuceMoose said:

Let us see the teams that our defense defeated - this one is pure cosmetic fluff, but I've always wanted to see the exact team an opponent used that our defense took down. 

Yeah, I’ve always been curious to see this, too.

Speaking of defense, another change I would like to see is for us to be able to retaliate against every player that successfully attacks your defensive team and not just the first three (or five in season simulator).  This would include if someone triple-hits you, you should be able to retaliate three times

Projectus2501

PvP takes to long and gives small rewards

Kahmon

Lots of good ideas here that I won't rehash, but I have a couple more to add (for now).

1)End bait and switch points offerings.
If we are offered a match for 45 points by MPQ then upon a win we should receive 45 points.
I don't give a flying fricking rats rump what has changed since the fight was offered. If I accept a fight for certain points in good faith then the game should honor that offer.

2)Realistic retaliation reward offers.
Lets say I got attacked and lost 42 points. It just adds insult to injury when the retaliation match is only worth 6 points. Seriously? SERIOUSLY? Total Horsedung.
A retaliation match should be worth as many points as you lost from the attack.

A_Wise_Man

Kahmon said:

Lots of good ideas here that I won't rehash, but I have a couple more to add (for now).

1)End bait and switch points offerings.
If we are offered a match for 45 points by MPQ then upon a win we should receive 45 points.
I don't give a flying fricking rats rump what has changed since the fight was offered. If I accept a fight for certain points in good faith then the game should honor that offer.

2)Realistic retaliation reward offers.
Lets say I got attacked and lost 42 points. It just adds insult to injury when the retaliation match is only worth 6 points. Seriously? SERIOUSLY? Total Horsedung.
A retaliation match should be worth as many points as you lost from the attack.

People have called this bait and switch for a long time.  It makes it sound like the devs are trying to trick you, which just isnt the case.  1) wont work.  People could just let one person climb super high, all queue him up, he doesn't shield and they all hit him or hop off of him and gain points from someone that isnt worth any.  The flip side of this...does he continue to lose the full amount of points?  Like, I'm now 500 points above him cause hes fallen but he was originally 500 above me.  Does he still lose 75 points from my hit?  I think people would like this far far less.

2) Wont work.  Same thing.  I'm 500 points above you.  You hit me for 75 points.  I hit back and I gain all 75 back.  You hit me again, I hit back again for 75.  Eventually we are at the same score, no matter how high or ridiculous that score is, then we bring the next guy up.  Nobody shields.  This would break the game.  

captainheath

The new event coming that allows Prof X, Magneto, or Jean Grey is the type of PVP we should see more often IMO.  Keep varying things to make each event different.

Kolence

Haven't read the whole thread, so if something like this has already been proposed, I apologize.

1) How about, we have a version of pvp where after you have used a character in a winning match, they get a 1 or more matches "cool down" (finished matches - win or lose, but retreats shouldn't count) and can't be used before it expires.
The number of matches could start at 0 and go up gradually as your score does. For instance:
score 0-300, cool down 0
score 301-600, cool down 1
score 601-900, cool down 2
score 901-1200, cool down 3
score 1201+, cool down 4

2) Disallow players to change the target on the AI team. Whoever made the initial match and finished in front stays there, unless powers (passive or active) can affect that. But no manual swapping. 

randomhero1090

Kolence said:

Haven't read the whole thread, so if something like this has already been proposed, I apologize.

1) How about, we have a version of pvp where after you have used a character in a winning match, they get a 1 or more matches "cool down" (finished matches - win or lose, but retreats shouldn't count) and can't be used before it expires.
The number of matches could start at 0 and go up gradually as your score does. For instance:
score 0-300, cool down 0
score 301-600, cool down 1
score 601-900, cool down 2
score 901-1200, cool down 3
score 1201+, cool down 4

2) Disallow players to change the target on the AI team. Whoever made the initial match and finished in front stays there, unless powers (passive or active) can affect that. But no manual swapping. 

1)  I've recommended something similar in the past.  Part of me loves it.  Part of me hates it.  If the win total for max progression was lower, i'd be about it.

2)  Nah.

grenadier

A_Wise_Man said:

grenadier said:

Better matchmaking in general.  My level 280's should not be matched up with level 350-400's on a regular basis.  The addition of a handful of 5* covers to a roster of 3 and 4* champions should not totally screw your matches for life.

Perhaps simply ignoring anything that isn't a champion when determining who you are matched with?  That way, someone moving into a new tier is not kneecapped just for trying to progress, and a newbie or mid-range player who lucks into a 5* doesn't have to throw it away to stay relevant.

This already exists in game, and has for a long time.  MMR factors in levels for sure, but its weighted by the number of covers you have for a character.  Single cover or even 5-6 cover 5 stars aren't affecting you if you have level 280 4 stars.  I find it's often something else going on that players blame their low covered 5s for.  

 A very very very long time ago those single 5s used to affect you, and I think that obsolete bit is still passed on as true.  It just isnt anymore.

If it already exists it needs a debug.  My highest character is a level 315 5* Doctor Strange, not champed.  Most are nowhere near that high.  Why should I be seeing 350-400 after the seed opponents?

jamesh

bluewolf said:

re: Playercount....I have been looking at the flips for PVE SCL 7-9 lately.  Waiting a bit longer for the post with some findings, but the Venom Bomb PVE had about 37 full brackets, which is about average over the past month or so.  Somewhere in the neighborhood of 40-45K players, accounting for partial brackets, at the top level of the game.

A fraction of players try hard in PVP, vs the number that play to progression in PVE.  Which is similarly a fraction of the people entering the PVE events; many barely do anything.

I don't know how many people are online to play PVP at the highest activity times, but 1000 matches sounds like a reasonable ballpark.

A big part of people favouring PVE is the reward structure though.  If you are chasing iso/HP to build up your roster, then PVE is the obvious choice.  And if you're playing to full progression, there's a chance you'll get 100 HP from daily placement and worthwhile placement rewards at the end of the event.

PVP would need to offer a lot more iso to compete with that, and probably extend the placement rewards so that decent prizes are available to lower level rosters.  It is stupid that a player with a 3* roster is likely to earn 2* covers at best from placement, for instance.

jamesh

grenadier said:

A_Wise_Man said:

grenadier said:

Better matchmaking in general.  My level 280's should not be matched up with level 350-400's on a regular basis.  The addition of a handful of 5* covers to a roster of 3 and 4* champions should not totally screw your matches for life.

Perhaps simply ignoring anything that isn't a champion when determining who you are matched with?  That way, someone moving into a new tier is not kneecapped just for trying to progress, and a newbie or mid-range player who lucks into a 5* doesn't have to throw it away to stay relevant.

This already exists in game, and has for a long time.  MMR factors in levels for sure, but its weighted by the number of covers you have for a character.  Single cover or even 5-6 cover 5 stars aren't affecting you if you have level 280 4 stars.  I find it's often something else going on that players blame their low covered 5s for.  

 A very very very long time ago those single 5s used to affect you, and I think that obsolete bit is still passed on as true.  It just isnt anymore.

If it already exists it needs a debug.  My highest character is a level 315 5* Doctor Strange, not champed.  Most are nowhere near that high.  Why should I be seeing 350-400 after the seed opponents?

Presumably the level 350-400 teams you are seeing are comprised of boosted 4* characters?  If you check those players' rosters, they probably have similar unboosted levels to your own roster.

PiMacleod

I love the idea of LIVE PvP.

To those who say the playerbase isn't robust enough to support it...

...what? -- every other mobile game with live PvP matches is better?  I seriously don't understand that.

I think what holds this idea back is the brackets system that we use.  Open it up a bit.  Heck, open it ALL the way up, just one pool of all players, just to test the thing out.  

Sure, there's a few bad ways it could go wrong.  But how do you really know until you do it?  The new mobile game Dr Mario World has live PvP, and it works great.  No brackets, and scoring is way different, but that's something separate that can be worried about...  The point is...

There are players who like this type of play.  Try it out.  If it gets people interested or excited, then expand on the idea.  I can't see the downside, especially with no major movie tie in for a while, so there's no content "demands".

Projectus2501

Live PvP would make the game even slower

bluewolf

Kolence said:

Haven't read the whole thread, so if something like this has already been proposed, I apologize.

1) How about, we have a version of pvp where after you have used a character in a winning match, they get a 1 or more matches "cool down" (finished matches - win or lose, but retreats shouldn't count) and can't be used before it expires.
The number of matches could start at 0 and go up gradually as your score does. For instance:
score 0-300, cool down 0
score 301-600, cool down 1
score 601-900, cool down 2
score 901-1200, cool down 3
score 1201+, cool down 4

2) Disallow players to change the target on the AI team. Whoever made the initial match and finished in front stays there, unless powers (passive or active) can affect that. But no manual swapping. 

All right!  I have several thousand dollars I don't need...let me go buy a set of awesome 5's.......PVP will be my stomping ground!

What!!!!!  I can't use them because they need to cool down!  I DEMAND A REFUND!

Equally angry would be the people who hoard for a loooooong time to get some 5's going and end up with them locked out from play.

What about the player who only has a couple dozen characters since they are just starting the game?  Obviously they might not hit 300, but if they did....

Not to mention; this would be a nightmare to communicate in a casual mobile game setting.

peterdark

These are just my thoughts but if PVP was live only I would imagine I would have to find something else to do. 

One of the biggest reasons I still play MPQ is that I can stop when family is calling and carry on where i left off 10 minutes later. 

I don't know about anyone else but I mainly do PVE once a day, I do my final clears, then wait a few minutes and do my initial clears. That means I do PVP the rest of the time, when time permits it and it's usually a few minutes here and there. Live PvP would make slow that all down. so those few minutes here and there would probably not be enough time for a single match.

ThaRoadWarrior

Putting a cooldown on characters is an incredibly heavy handed way to counter a meta. It's right there with permanently retiring characters after some time interval for things I am super not interested in.

bluewolf

Re:  Live PVP.....it would possibly be an interesting side mode to the normal PVP, I think.

There are all kinds of ways that the current PVP scoring system and live PVP would not work well together.  The current model of PVP (being a target while out, which requires fast hops at the high end of the scores and using HP for shields) is a revenue generator, at least among high end PVP players.  So there's almost zero incentive on the part of the developers to significantly change the current PVP system.

Now, whether there is interest on the devs' part to pursue live PVP...that's unclear.  The reason to add it is to create an increase in player interest by adding a new thing to do, but the question becomes how the mode would be monetized.

The other issue with Live PVP is that the game as it is has fairly minimal data activity.  Live PVP would require constant communication between your device and the servers (at least insofar as each move would need to be communicated to the servers, something that currently doesn't happen).  Maybe live PVP would require you to have a wifi connection or something, but there is a lot that the devs have done to minimize their server load and save money by making pings fairly rare.  When you play PVE, you are only sending a ping when you finish a node, logging your progress etc (and when you ping the Leaderboard).  PVP currently - as many have complained about in regards to the points that a target is worth - doesn't ping the server constantly and only does so when you cycle/skip someone and when you finish a node.  Even purchasing a shield should always be followed by looking at the LB to make sure the game has registered your shielded status.

Live PVP wouldn't work like any other part of the game in that way.  Whether the game would support the data load/communication needs, and whether the developers would want to (presumably) upgrade servers to handle that kind of activity, are obviously unknown to us.