5* essential and SCL

qandols

I forget, what SCL to enter if you do not have the 5*? I do not have Gambit for Strange Sights.

CT1888

Need SCL6 for that. 

MadScientist

Note that SCL6 does not give a 4* cover as progression reward. SCL7 does and the 5e-node gives so little points that a reasonable placement is possible even without the required 5*.

qandols

Thanks. Everything about this event sucks for me, so I just consider it lost. I mean Sabretooth 2/2/0 and Thor who is recycled at 1/1/0. My alliance requires full progression so I do not want to have unplayable nodes.

AXP_isme

I thought progression scores are the same regardless of level, it’s just the amounts and types of rewards in progression that change. That being the case, you’re locked out of the 5e node so the question is whether you go in a lower level, (6, say) where there are no points unavailable to you so you’re not **** on placement possibility but the rewards are worse, or go on a higher level where there are more points unavailable (also the 5e node rewards are unavailable, but that’s true regardless of what they are or how many points it’s worth) so your placement is likely to suffer but the overall progression rewards are more generous.

It should be possible to hit max progression at any scl without the 5e (or 4e or any single essential character) by doing enough clears of the other nodes that are available. Ultimately it’s just a trade off between difficulty, progression rewards and likely placement rewards. 

DAZ0273

The 5e isn't required but for SCL8/9 you can hit full progression by hitting the 5e with less clears overall I think?

bluewolf

You never need the 5E to get full progression.  The points make it easier to get but the target is the same at all SCLs. 

You can play down because SS is a bit of a pain, but I’d at least consider SCL 7 for the better rewards. 

Steel_Colt

Without the 5E it's 5 clears of all other nodes for full progression. With the 5E it's easily possible with 4 clears of all nodes and 2 times 5E, and then a little extra in the last sub. 
That's what I usually do when I'm not trying for placement. 

PiMacleod

Steel_Colt said:

Without the 5E it's 5 clears of all other nodes for full progression. With the 5E it's easily possible with 4 clears of all nodes and 2 times 5E, and then a little extra in the last sub. 
That's what I usually do when I'm not trying for placement. 

This.

That's what I do all the time.  4 clears of EVERY node.  Progression guaranteed.  Sometimes you can skip 1 or two clears of the 5* on the final day.

If not using the 5* node, then that's when the 5 clears thing comes in.  Kinda puts it in perspective how many points that node is worth.

TPF Alexis

Steel_Colt said:

Without the 5E it's 5 clears of all other nodes for full progression. With the 5E it's easily possible with 4 clears of all nodes and 2 times 5E, and then a little extra in the last sub. 
That's what I usually do when I'm not trying for placement. 

Depends on which SCL. That's true at SCL9, but definitely not at 7. I'm not sure how it works out in 8.

ThaRoadWarrior

8 and 9 have a full-points 5e node, but 7 they dropped the value of it at some point. 

Steel_Colt

TPF Alexis said:

Steel_Colt said:

Without the 5E it's 5 clears of all other nodes for full progression. With the 5E it's easily possible with 4 clears of all nodes and 2 times 5E, and then a little extra in the last sub. 
That's what I usually do when I'm not trying for placement. 

Depends on which SCL. That's true at SCL9, but definitely not at 7. I'm not sure how it works out in 8.

You're right, I'm speaking from experience here and have been playing SCL9 for I don't know how long. Thanks for adding this, would be a shame if someone missed out on full progression in SCL7/8 by following my strategy.  

ZootSax

For what it's worth, in SCL7 the 5E is roughly the same points as the second trivial node.  Over an event, it will spare you some harder clears on single nodes, but you're still looking at 4.5 clears of everything else if you hit the 5E four times every sub.  

PiMacleod

Huh.  That's irritating if so.  

One would think the numbers would be the same across all SCLs, but the prizes would change.

ThaRoadWarrior

It's been like this since 2017. Excerpt from the "hey, why are the points different?" thread from Brigby at the time:

Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,199 Site Admin

November 2017

Hi Everyone. I just spoke with the development team, and it appears that there are some changes to the 5-Star Essential Missions in Unstable Iso-8. 

Starting in this event, the amount of points a 5-Star Essential mission has will be different for each S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Level that mission exists in. 5-Star Essential missions will always be worth more than the 4-Star Essential mission, but it will be worth more points in higher S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Levels. 

In addition, Starting in Hearts of Darkness this Thursday, the difficulty of the 5-Star Essential mission in S.H.I.E.L.D. Clearance Level 7 will be reduced (starting at level 185 enemies instead of 255) and that mission will also be worth much less points. 

Rewards are not impacted by these changes.

From: https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/68801/unstable-iso-8-scoring-bug#latest

PiMacleod

...doesn't make it less irritating.  Just saying.

TPF Alexis

PiMacleod said:

...doesn't make it less irritating.  Just saying.

I believe it was also intended to keep people from slumming in SCL7 while still putting up the points to keep their Alliance getting top PvE placements, and to make it easier to get at least halfway decent placement in SCL7 for people who don't have the 5*E. SCL7 is important for 4* transitioners, and getting forced to choose between dropping to SCL6 to place well enough to keep up the HP income and playing SCL7 and getting the 4* cover from Progression is not fun.

PiMacleod

TPF Alexis said:

PiMacleod said:

...doesn't make it less irritating.  Just saying.

I believe it was also intended to keep people from slumming in SCL7 while still putting up the points to keep their Alliance getting top PvE placements, and to make it easier to get at least halfway decent placement in SCL7 for people who don't have the 5*E. SCL7 is important for 4* transitioners, and getting forced to choose between dropping to SCL6 to place well enough to keep up the HP income and playing SCL7 and getting the 4* cover from Progression is not fun.

Interesting.  

If this is all true, then it tells me that the devs are actually paying attention to details like that.  Because it's a lot easier to keep your numbers the same across the board, but change the rewards for the SCL.

Sure, that was implemented a couple years back.  It's still something I wouldn't have assumed that would've gained so much attention, as opposed to a broken/bad character that needs attention.

This is where someone tries to explain that it actually benefits the developer financially to pay attention SCL point levels, as opposed to character build data.  It's okay.  It's not deep enough to warrant the explanation.  Let's just say that out of all the bashing the developers get, that's a detail I wouldn't have expected.  Neat to know.

DAZ0273

PiMacleod said:

TPF Alexis said:

PiMacleod said:

...doesn't make it less irritating.  Just saying.

I believe it was also intended to keep people from slumming in SCL7 while still putting up the points to keep their Alliance getting top PvE placements, and to make it easier to get at least halfway decent placement in SCL7 for people who don't have the 5*E. SCL7 is important for 4* transitioners, and getting forced to choose between dropping to SCL6 to place well enough to keep up the HP income and playing SCL7 and getting the 4* cover from Progression is not fun.

Interesting.  

If this is all true, then it tells me that the devs are actually paying attention to details like that.  Because it's a lot easier to keep your numbers the same across the board, but change the rewards for the SCL.

Sure, that was implemented a couple years back.  It's still something I wouldn't have assumed that would've gained so much attention, as opposed to a broken/bad character that needs attention.

This is where someone tries to explain that it actually benefits the developer financially to pay attention SCL point levels, as opposed to character build data.  It's okay.  It's not deep enough to warrant the explanation.  Let's just say that out of all the bashing the developers get, that's a detail I wouldn't have expected.  Neat to know.

It is true. Players playing down was also the reason behind the closing off of SCL6 and below in PvP during the Wins based fiasco as the 5* players openly stated on the Forums that they would simply organise and disperse to take all the CP available from placement, thus playing in SCL clearly not appropriate for their roster.

bluewolf

While making SCL 7 give less points helps keep top end alliance players out of 7, making it possible for more lower end players to place, it's a bit hard to very specifically say that was the reason for the point differences (I don't recall that explanation being offered).  There is a solid argument just from a pure game difficulty standpoint to make the points go up at higher SCLs, and keep in mind that all the points in the 5E are above and beyond progression.  That means that the more difficult clears in 8/9 help you more in the goal of hitting progression, as well as helping you achieve higher placement as an alliance when more of your members are in those SCLs.  It's a good mechanic to differentiate rosters too.

RE:  The PVP closing off of SCLs as you rise.....that was implemented a little while after the short, one season wins-based PVP "experiment".  I can't remember when, but it was close enough that I wondered how people would react if that reward system had been brought back after locking people into SCL bands.

DAZ0273

All I know is that they absolutely butchered the SCL7 points on offer so either a.) Their metrics told them something deeply disturbing or b.) They just can't help themselves when rebalancing anything, it has to be scorched earth.