An airing of grievances: Vanguard Supports

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Comments

  • ZW2007-
    ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
    jimpark said:
    This is a great, well written post - its beautiful.
    Thank you.
    bken1234 said:
    For the price they should be non-dupe. The rares should be only Rares and non-dupe and the mythics the same. If they’re going to be dupes they should cut the price by like 75%. 
    I agree and I think non-dupe is the best solution. I planned to mention this in my original post and forgot but I believe the packs being non-dupes would not be problematic for the economy of the game and here is why:

    Supposing we do get Ugin for free at some point, there would be 12 mythics and 15 rares still in the packs. That means it would cost 5,400 jewels to collect all of the exclusive Vanguards. Our imaginary super player would only have 855 jewels left over after collecting all of those.

    Let's imagine a more realistic player. If a platinum player played all dailies (TotP, RT, and the odd AX) to full progression and all the random PvEs (Journey Through History, Routes of Ravnica, and Tour de Ravnica) to full progression, plus ZvE on the losing side, they would have earned 3,045 jewels over the period referenced in my original post. These are basically guaranteed as long as you put in the time. However, the average player probably isn't in platinum. TotP is a huge chunk of those jewels and it's barely worth playing as a gold tier player, and definitely not worth it for silver and bronze. Rising Tensions was another large chunk but was removed for three entire weeks although it seems to be back at 3x a week instead of 5x.

    Excluding coalition rewards, if this platinum player earned full progression in all the coalition PvE events and earned 50% of the PvP rank jewels; that would add another 960 jewels, bringing their total to 4,005 jewels. That is still 1,395 jewels short of the 5,400 jewels target. Using the crystal conversion to make up that difference would cost 5,700 crystals. This would maybe be achievable for a top platinum player without spending any cash on the game if they spent crystals and jewels only on vanguard packs. There are also the individual PvPs that are relatively easy to place in top 5 for a top platinum player but it is a massive time investment for very small rewards. Supposing they did spend the time and did go perfect in all 5 NoP at 15 jewels a piece and all 4 TS/EC at 20 jewels each, they'd have another 155 jewels. This still doesn't get them much closer to the goal.

    Maybe I'm crazy but I'd imagine that around 1% of the player base does this well, this consistently. Everyone else falls short of that which means they have an even greater obstacle to overcome. The carrot and stick only works if the stick is short enough to keep the carrot in sight. These packs need to be non-dupes.
  • rafalele
    rafalele Posts: 876 Critical Contributor
    I agree, but also think that all cards should be in regular boosters.
  • ZW2007-
    ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
    rafalele said:
    I agree, but also think that all cards should be in regular boosters.
    I do too, but they clearly already decided that they can't do that for some reason. I'm trying to push for the most realistic alternative, no matter how fruitless this likely will be.
  • Houdin
    Houdin Posts: 182 Tile Toppler
    At least you got vanguards to have dupes of.
    I pulled the wheel twice and both times got error messages.
    The game took my pinks but didnt give me any cards.

    And yes I'm still waiting for support to do something about it.
  • Enygma6
    Enygma6 Posts: 266 Mover and Shaker
    edited June 2019
    It's like they took a look at how ZvE cards were made available and thought:  
    "How can we make the Vanguard subset differentiated from the rest of the new WAR set, in the most frustrating way possible, but by making the fewest changes necessary to the game's Vault system?..."
    "Start with the ZvE mechanism, but change the currency from Crystals to the harder to obtain Jewels, then remove the guarantee of getting a proportionate payoff for the player's hard work."  
    "Ship it!"
  • Klep
    Klep Posts: 52 Match Maker
    edited June 2019
    I tried to get another mythic Vanguard pack thinking my odds were good because I only had 3 out of 13. I got a dupe.  So I sighed and tried again and I got the *same dupe*.  This is intolerable.  I've used 1500 jewels to get 3 cards.
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    think you are missing a big point, with all these vanguard out even if they cant get them all, a lot or players will have some and you have to get an all new set of cards to deal with them on top of all the regular supports going out and then all the token creatures, most decks for new players will have to have 2 creatures at most because the rest of the deck will be used trying to protect what few creatures you can get out, good luck new players having a good time going against any ai run deck even.
  • ZW2007-
    ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
    ElfNeedsFood said:
    ZW2007- said:
    "Reward of the Spark"
    Best MtGPQ phrase since the "Revolt Against the Update"...

    Overall, it's pretty unbelievable how expensive these somewhat underwhelming cards are...
    I can't take credit. I believe @starfall coined the term.

    I do have another grievance to add to the growing pile. The rewards from the Ravnica at War event. What a joke. Can't wait to play that event approximately 60 more times so that I can buy a single mythic vanguard pack. Better yet, I think it might be time to uninstall and move on.
  • Stalker
    Stalker Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
    ZW2007- said: Better yet, I think it might be time to uninstall and move on.
    Welcome to the club. Just uninstalled and rearranged my home screen.
  • wickedwitch74
    wickedwitch74 Posts: 267 Mover and Shaker
    Bump.

    Looking for some update on this. 

    There is currently only one way to get Vanguard cards, and there is no guarantee of a non-dupe.

    Are these cards going to be available through crafting or some other means? Are you going to address the non-dupe for purple jewels issue?
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    I would like to know this as well. It would be nice to at least have a couple put in normal 400 elite packs.  Maybe we could vote as a community. 
  • wickedwitch74
    wickedwitch74 Posts: 267 Mover and Shaker
    bken1234 said:
    I would like to know this as well. It would be nice to at least have a couple put in normal 400 elite packs.  Maybe we could vote as a community. 
    I like the way they implemented the DD:ZvE Rares and Mythics.

    You spent crystals, which seems more appropriate, and would receive non-dupe cards.

    Something similar would be nice.

    Also, adding some of these Vanguard supports as event prizes (like this last weekend's slog-fest) would have been a good way to reward players instead of runes, which many of us don't need.
  • Bil
    Bil Posts: 831 Critical Contributor
    edited July 2019
    wickedwitch74 said:
    bken1234 said:
    I would like to know this as well. It would be nice to at least have a couple put in normal 400 elite packs.  Maybe we could vote as a community. 
    I like the way they implemented the DD:ZvE Rares and Mythics.

    You spent crystals, which seems more appropriate, and would receive non-dupe cards.

    Something similar would be nice.

    Also, adding some of these Vanguard supports as event prizes (like this last weekend's slog-fest) would have been a good way to reward players instead of runes, which many of us don't need.
    I actually had the same feeling ... ES could have justified the grind if it was an option to get access to vanguards ... 

    1000 points could reward a rare vanguard pack (possibly a dupe) and 1500 points a mythic vanguard pack (possibly a dupe too). The dupe effect and  the very hard grind would make sure they remain very exclusive products.

    Besides,  (a bit off topic) , events like ES should not be coalition related so players don't feel hostaged, stuck beetween the hammer and the anvil because they are part of a competitive coalition.
  • tfg76
    tfg76 Posts: 258 Mover and Shaker
    I like that they separated out the vanguard cards. That way, I don't have to get them when I open regular boosters. There isn't one that I want to play with in any deck.
  • dwinn7038
    dwinn7038 Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
    Firinmahlazer said:
    I'm really reeealllyyy confused as to why they decided to have cards and PW include wording specific to Vanguard supports and then put them behind a jewel paywall. 

    Hint: the reason is money.
  • Boogeyman
    Boogeyman Posts: 223 Tile Toppler
    dwinn7038 said:
    Firinmahlazer said:
    I'm really reeealllyyy confused as to why they decided to have cards and PW include wording specific to Vanguard supports and then put them behind a jewel paywall. 

    Hint: the reason is money.
    Can you get more jewels with money.  I mean a significant amount (3000+)?

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