An airing of grievances: Vanguard Supports

ZW2007-

First, I'd like to just say that I'm aware that Festivus isn't until December but I'm thoroughly annoyed with recent developments in the game. From VIP to WAR, and the "ReWARd of the Spark" to the super maintenance, etc.

My biggest grievance, however, is the implementation of Vanguard packs. There are 28 Vanguard cards that are only available via jewels. Given the "Reward of the Spark" yesterday, I was able to complete my Vanguard collection with a whopping 15,300 jewels. That apparently was on the low end as most other reports said it took them anywhere from 16k-20k with some not even completing the set at 20k. Considering the average life of a set is 14 weeks (since a new set in paper releases every 3 months or so.) Given this, and using my own 15,300 (which seems to be the lowest reported and I know it's accurate) as a baseline, it would take an average of 1,093 jewels earned weekly, and spent exclusively on Vanguards, to collect all the Vanguards in WAR. Keep in mind I had the lowest reported cost so it would likely be higher than that number. Now, let's break down the maximum amount of jewels it is theoretically possible to attain. I looked at all events starting with the weekend coalition event that ended on 3/11 and concluding with the coalition event that ended on 6/16. This is roughly the entire span of RNA being the newest set and also 14 weeks (give or take a few days.) The maximum possible jewel income from 3/11 - 6/16 was 6,255 jewels. That is only possible for a platinum player that participated in every single event that rewarded jewels, and ranked in the top 5 individually/top 2 coalition, and was on the winning side of ZvE. So this imaginary, and impossible, fictional player would have averaged only 447 jewels a week over that 14 week span. That is a deficit of 646 jewels per week, or 9,045 jewels to reach 15,300. There are no other sources of jewels outside of the 300:75 crystals:jewels conversion and cash purchases/VIP. Converting crystals to jewels would require 36,180 crystals to make up that deficit, or the equivalent to $1,210 worth of crystals.

So even the greatest player that never existed in the history of the game would have to cough up over $1,000 to unlock the 28 cards that are the primary focus of this new set.

The real kicker here is that these cards aren't available in the Standard only packs or the special VIP packs that contain only the cards from the newest set because they slapped the EXCLUSIVE stamp on them. Which brings me to my next grievance, VIP. They trotted VIP out in front of us like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, even though we all agreed immediately that it was grossly overpriced. A lot of players, myself included, signed up for the free one week trial and found out the packs were non-duplicate packs. This lead players to signing up for the paid subscription, myself included, to get more of those packs. Some players, myself included, were able to complete their entire collection aside from the remaining exclusives. The reason I did this is because I was able to figure out how many packs I would need to complete my collection and then see that I would still have a decent amount of packs left over for WAR. Knowing that I would have a sizable number of non-dupe packs to use for WAR, I committed to purchasing VIP for a month. Fast forward a few weeks and those packs are only a fraction of the value I expected them to be. VIP packs went from containing all rares and ~83% of the mythics, to only containing ~62% of the rares and only 48% of the mythics (excluding the paid exclusives). Having this many cards marked as exclusives is a pretty drastic change compared to all previous set releases.

With this many exclusives in WAR, I feel like VIP was just another bait and switch.

Lastly, the communication has been a joke. I received roughly 54,000 jewels in the post-original maintenance mess and then the servers went down to "tie up some loose ends." After that we heard basically nothing, and still have heard basically nothing.

Devs, you really need to take a long hard look at how these Vanguard packs will affect not only players enjoyment of WAR, but their enjoyment of the game overall. They are a great new additional to the game and something it desperately needed. The problem is, you locked them behind the most ridiculous pay wall and have left the remainder of the set lacking. The best energize/overload cards of KLD block being event reward exclusives completely ruined the entire theme of the block. You are repeating that process in a much worse way. We were told that events will start rewarding more jewels but I don't see how you could ever reward enough jewels for even the best fictional player to be able to unlock all the Vanguards. I think there are a few good solutions:

• Remove the mythic rares from the 120 jewel pack and make the Vanguard packs contain non-duplicates only.
• Remove the EXCLUSIVE tag and have Vanguard cards in the WAR, standard, and VIP pack's card pools but still make them available in the 120 and 300 jewel Vanguard packs.
• Change nothing but add the Vanguard supports to the Elite Pack rotation.

Or you could do nothing, remain tight-lipped about everything, and have a bunch of angry players.

ZW2007-

I can post my chart showing where I got the jewel calculations from if anyone would like to see that.

bk1234

//Added “Vanguard Supports to title with OP’s permission Bk.//

madwren

Bravo. It does indeed have eerie reminders of Kaladesh. It's sad to see the highlight of a set locked away, and even more so to see people spend their jewels and get a duplicate.

EvilDead

They're 100% special Mythics and they are going to release vanguards from other sets if I recall correctly. Silly for those from other sets to be in War packs it seems. Maybe the War versions should be. Maybe they will listen to us.

Overall, I'm not too impressed by them but some will have their useful scenarios. 

What I am mad about, is the fact that the rich will keep getting richer. As those who have played forever, will easily grab all the ones they want since they own all the pinks!!!

bk1234

For the price they should be non-dupe. The rares should be only Rares and non-dupe and the mythics the same. If they’re going to be dupes they should cut the price by like 75%. 

ZW2007-

EvilDead said:

What I am mad about, is the fact that the rich will keep getting richer. As those who have played forever, will easily grab all the ones they want since they own all the pinks!!!

Well, as the mess yesterday showed us, even the richest players won't be getting anywhere near all the ones they want. I spent all my jewels (pre-maintenance) on mythic packs and I'm still missing the two I wanted most. Odds are good I won't spend more.

Oh, I also forgot to mention this in my original post: Ugin is supposed to be given out to all players, why on Earth is he in a pack that costs 300 jewels and can give out duplicates?

khurram

I honestly can't think why they couldn't just include the cards in regular WAR boosters with other mythics. 

IM_CARLOS

ZW2007- said:

EvilDead said:

What I am mad about, is the fact that the rich will keep getting richer. As those who have played forever, will easily grab all the ones they want since they own all the pinks!!!

Well, as the mess yesterday showed us, even the richest players won't be getting anywhere near all the ones they want. I spent all my jewels (pre-maintenance) on mythic packs and I'm still missing the two I wanted most. Odds are good I won't spend more.

Oh, I also forgot to mention this in my original post: Ugin is supposed to be given out to all players, why on Earth is he in a pack that costs 300 jewels and can give out duplicates?

I read about ugin after I purchased 2100 jewels in vangard and guess what was my very first mythic pull there? I didn't even got a free ugin card.

Got a lesson. Canceled my VIP!

Azerack

khurram said:

I honestly can't think why they couldn't just include the cards in regular WAR boosters with other mythics. 

Because like with the VIP memberships, they needed another money-sink.. 

If they're actually thinking that adding previous PW's as Vanguard cards and putting them in the same Jewel packs without de-duping? Yeah, not touching them anymore.. I'll go back to using my jewels to get MP's I haven't picked up from pack draws like I should have with the last 600 jewels I ended up with. 

jtwood

Could not agree more: Gating off the mechanic of the set so that it's largely inaccessible is preposterous.

I bought one mythic pack because I knew I wouldn't get a dupe, but I'm done spending on them. I've settled into accepting that I simply won't be playing with Vanguards unless they change the distribution method.

Firinmahlazer

I'm really reeealllyyy confused as to why they decided to have cards and PW include wording specific to Vanguard supports and then put them behind a jewel paywall. 

DumasAG

Firinmahlazer said:

I'm really reeealllyyy confused as to why they decided to have cards and PW include wording specific to Vanguard supports and then put them behind a jewel paywall. 

This is the part that I feel is salt in the wound. SO MANY cards deal with vanguards, cards I will never have (I got Karn, won’t be buying any more for fear of dupes) and likely will rarely play against because of the pay wall. Like, great, I opened elderspell. It’s so wonderful having another solemnity...

Gideon

Another dupe debacle! They never seem to learn from their past mistakes. Listen up devs. No one wants to spend their hard earned jewels on dupes! A lesson we thought you learned but apparently you’re too hard headed to get it.

wereotter

I mean.... we all should have vanguard supports without paying anything. We got 5 of them from doing the War of the Spark story mode, and we're SUPPOSED to have gotten Ugin delivered to our inboxes.... still waiting on that one here. But I do feel similarly that I think it was a bad move to put the majority of the planeswalkers behind the super premium currency.

rafalele

The release date I spent 300 pink in a vanguard mythic booster, no more because of the dupes.

Just now I have realized that the vanguard mythic support I got is Ugin  the Ugin that is going to be given

soultwist

Well, Ugin was announced as being given in a very well written post by a developer on how it all works.  History would tell us that they are brainstorming how to walk that message back and not give him with the least amount of drama.  I suppose its possible that he's a reward in the event this weekend, it does seem like they have been doing that with events like TDW

Anyone that goes after more then 1 in crazy IMHO (and i wish I had my 300 back from 1).  For 100 more you can go after a card like Killer Instinct.  If you miss you might get Mirror March or Radkos or some other card that will help you way more.  If you miss going after the vanguard you get 500 crafting runes.

Plus those cards will help your game go a lot fewer turns meaning you will have less opportunities activate any vanguard you did have.

soultwist

In the bugs forum it was stated that Ugin is planned to be given this weekend.

Klep

I bought three of each pack and got one rare dupe. It felt as bad as I expected it would, which is to say it felt bad enough to discourage me from buying any more.

[Deleted User]

This is a great, well written post - its beautiful.

Jbluew

I absolutely agree with the OP on all points.  I feel insulted.  They sell us VIP and then devalue it 28 days later.  We're supposed to get more jewels from events now?  I'll believe it when I see it.  Over half of the events still have outdated/inconsistent rewards months and years later.  100 crystal apology for this debacle of an update is yet another insult.

400 jewels for non-dupe mythic/MP pack vs.  300 jewels for dupe mythic vanguard pack doesn't make any sense.  This paywall is ridiculous and infuriating!  I've never loved a game so much only to be this insulted and infuriated this much by its developer.  

I cancelled my master VIP membership and I've lost all excitement for this set and perhaps even this game.  I've sunk a lot of money into this game and don't plan to any more unless we get a huge change in the right direction.