I've been hoarding legendaries for years and I have a few questions about 5* PvP

TranscendGod

I'd like to know about the PvP experience for 5* players, especially if you have high level 5* champs (500+ or 550s). How is the initial climb? How do things change when you get high enough to queue more people? How often do you queue non-meta teams (excluding grills)? How often do you get hit? How does the experience change in a 3* featured event vs a 4* featured event? How about events where you can use choose all 3 characters (I know that simulator is filled with gritty/bishop for lower level 5* players past a certain point, is the same true for high level 5* players)?

I'm trying to decide whether it would be more fun to have a few high level 5s or many low level 5s. Thanks for your time!

_Vitto

TranscendGod said:

I'd like to know about the PvP experience for 5* players, especially if you have high level 5* champs (500+ or 550s). How is the initial climb? How do things change when you get high enough to queue more people? How often do you queue non-meta teams (excluding grills)? How often do you get hit? How does the experience change in a 3* featured event vs a 4* featured event? How about events where you can use choose all 3 characters (I know that simulator is filled with gritty/bishop for lower level 5* players past a certain point, is the same true for high level 5* players)?

I'm trying to decide whether it would be more fun to have a few high level 5s or many low level 5s. Thanks for your time!

1) Initial climb is easier, since you can spot lv 500+ rosters from lower than before.
2) As above, you can queue "the usual people" and more rosters similar to yours. 
3) If you get high enough past the other players with similar rosters, you start queuing non-meta teams.
4) The higher your roster level, the lesser you get hit.
5) For 3*s, doesn't really matter who he/she is, you won't notice any difference. For 4*s, it depends on who's the character and what level you have him/her at. However, doesn't change much either way.
6) Yup, same. All gritty-bishops.

Imo, your best bet is to wait for 3 strong chars in Legendary Tokens and unhoard, in order to have them at the highest possible level.
Fun is relative: collectionists would tell you the exact opposite, contenders would agree with me.

Sm0keyJ0e

_Vitto said:

Fun is relative: collectionists would tell you the exact opposite, contenders would agree with me.

I would be happy to collect all the things but the simple fact of the matter is not all characters are created equally. Some are much better than others. I have no desire to chase something like 5* Kingpin who will only be used when he is required in PVE--which is what, once a year? It's a waste of resources but that's just my opinion. I hate rewarding bad character design by spending valuable resources on them.

As far as PVP, there are a lot of variables that change the experience. If you climb early in the event you pretty much see what you see now. If you wait and climb later, all you will queue are other similar rosters--over and over and over again. 

As far as getting hit, it's going to depend on how many other rosters similar to yours are out. Using my comment above about seeing the same rosters over and over again--if you're floating for reasonable points, someone else is queueing you over and over again (and probably hitting). For the most part, smaller rosters cannot see you unless you leave them a red. In a world of ThorKoye, no roster is safe from getting retal'd.

Daredevil217

I’m on the many small champs over a few big ones list. But more than being a collector, that’s just my playstyle.

I delayed leaving the 4* tier because it is so varied and I loved coming up with new combos.

I have all the meta. So can use Thorkoye to quick hop, put out Gritty on defense, and Thanos my way through PVE. Using them beyond that bores me, so I like trying to put other combos together.  If I just used the big 4 all the time I’d probably quit. But instead I enjoy using all my 5*s (currently up to 17 if you include my purposely soft-capped Thor and Kitty), and like finding fun new combos, even with non-meta characters. Loki, Daredevil, Hela, BeardCap, Doom, Strange, etc. sure they’re slow... but fun!

So I guess I’d weigh what is important. If placing high is important I’d go 550s. If variety is important I’d go 450s. Good luck either way and let us know how it goes!

grunth13

You can see my roster in my sig and see that I know what I am talking about.  With that out of the way,  here's how it goes for me.   I usually play in s4 where there aren't tons of high level rosters (500+) mainly because there aren't a ton of  people playing in s4.  If I start immediately,  I'll mainly climb on 3 and 4 star rosters.   If I start in the middle,  I'll have a hell of a time because too many 470+ (only need about 5 to 7 players doing this and I'll only be able to que them) rosters are floating and I'll have to beat them to climb high enough to see grills/seals.  If I start close to the end,  most people are shield hopping and I'll start seeing 3 and 4 star rosters most of my climb.   S2 is similar because of a certain alliance that tends not to shield very often until the end.   S1 has a ton of people so there is always someone with a similar roster out even with a ton of shield hopping.   S5 also has tons of people,  but it also has a lot of 500+ rosters that won't shield hop until the end so you will be facing their "A" team.   Now as for tons of small 5s vs 3 big 5s depends on your style of play.   If you are primarily pve, you want tons of 5s because of god mode boost, but that can be overcome by the correct 3 5s that are essential for pve (Thanos,  Gritty,  or thorokoye), but this gets boring because you will probably only use them for pve and pvp... every match.   If you are primarily pvp, then 3 meta 5s is the way to go because you will never use any of the other 5s anyways.   That being said,  thorokoye and gritty has killed the 500+ rosters can't be touched mentality because it's easy to beat a 550 with a 450ish thorokoye (I know because it's happened to me).  1 thing going for 550s in pvp is that if enough people are out,  you will be invisible to other players if you aren't in their base mmr.  Now 3 star vs 4 star pvp.  Almost everyone with 5s has a max champed 3 so the above info stands for 3 star pvp.  For 4 star pvp, a player with 550 is more likely to have a 370 4 star which skews the mmr enough to be able to see seals earlier, but if it's an older 4 star then more people have a high level 4 that mmr goes back to the info above.  New character 4 star makes it more likely to see seals as a 500+ because most people won't even have a champed required character.  I hope this helps,  if you have any other specifics, please don't hesitate to ask... I'll try to find that answer if i don't know it. 

Thanos

@TranscendGod How many LT's and how much CP do you have saved?

Vhailorx

_vitto, surely you agree that having 550 JJ, DD, and BB would be worlds away from having 520+ thorkoye + kitty.

So which characters you get to very high champ levels seems every bit as important as getting to high levels.

If TC has a mixed hoard of LTs and CP it will be hard to get a threesome of meta characters to 500+. At best to has to wait until rescue leaves tokens, and hope that the next two releases are beats because storm is not meta.

So even for a putative contender, just chasing levels, or even chasing levels on "good-but-not-meta" characters seems like a mistake.

TranscendGod

Wow. Thanks for the great insight. I had no idea that it was possible for someone with high level 5* champs to queue 3/4* rosters if they start at the right time and play in the right slice. In the past, when I talked to a 550 player about their experience, they were only able to queue other 550 players during their initial climb most of the time.

I heard from someone that if you softcap your 5s (at ~370 or lower) and have many max champ 4s, you can still have 4* MMR (and not just queue champ 5* teams despite having level 450+ boosted 4* each week). If true, I'd probably consider it simply because I enjoy the variety of the 4* meta (particularly how it changes each week with the boosted list). Does anyone know of someone with a roster like this? I'd love to know about their experience with PvP. At the moment, my average 4* level is a bit over 300 with no 4s anywhere close to 370.

@Thanos

I currently have over 1200 latest and 32000 command points. I spent a few thousand command points on that godly Thor/Okoye/Kitty store to make sure I have at least a few covers of each, and I recently started opening ~20-40 latest whenever there's a new 5* because I was tired of having to drop to CL6 when I don't have the required 5. None of my 5s are fully covered (they have about 2-3 covers on average).

Thanks to everyone for answering my questions!

Vhailorx

Sadly, I think that if you really wanted to contend with 500+ 5*s, you probably should have dumped ~20k cp into the thorkoye + kitty store in February.  That offer was easily the best single token offered since sometime in 2017 (Thor + Gambit + DD is the closest off the top of my head, though any token with pre-nerf Gambit was arguably a worthy investment).  Never say never, but I would be surprised if we see a special store that good again anytime soon.

Having missed that, I think you have to keep holding out for the next meta characters to release or swapping strategies and cracking open your LT hoard to cover the next 6-10 releases before deciding what to do about potentially entering 5* land.

Sm0keyJ0e

You have enough pulls to max champ whatever three latests you pull for and enough left over to max champ at least one more, maybe two if your 4's are all champed and in good shape. Or you could spread the covers around and go for a few level 500 versions like Kitty, Okoye, and Thor. That would probably be the route I would take.

Borstock

My highest 5* champ is not in the 5xx range, but I can tell you that hitting 1200 became MUCH easier when I made the transition.

JackDeath666

2 ill-informed comments... 
1) After all this time whatever you do don't rush into a decision.
2) Paradoxically, don't horde until this game is shut down and miss out. 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? Who knows? 

bluewolf

JackDeath666 said:

2 ill-informed comments... 
1) After all this time whatever you do don't rush into a decision.
2) Paradoxically, don't horde until this game is shut down and miss out. 1 year? 2 years? 5 years? Who knows? 

There's one roster that I have been a few places behind in PVE lately who appeared to start hoarding after finishing Okoye, and opened when Doom/CM/Hela were in the store together.  Missed Kitty almost completely.

Who knows when the next meta character will come along?  Or as mentioned earlier, the next meta store?  Hoards are just potential until you use them.  Getting the timing right is important.

AXP_isme

Then again, the next meta-defining character is always just around the corner. Unless you really get a kick out of the endless anticipation then all those saved tokens aren’t providing any benefit. Why not crack the hoard?

It’s a bit like having a few cases of really good wine in the cellar. You may never find an objectively best point in time at which to crack it open. You have to decide how you’re going to get the most out of the asset. If you leave it indefinitely then it’ll spoil. If you only dip in every 5 years you’ll probably miss the sweet spot and it’ll all be on a downward trajectory by the time you decide it’s ready to drink. At some point you may as well take the plunge and stop worrying about what ifs. It’s only a game, after all. 

side note: I love it when people write horde instead, the mental image always makes me smile. 

_Vitto

Vhailorx said:

_vitto, surely you agree that having 550 JJ, DD, and BB would be worlds away from having 520+ thorkoye + kitty.

So which characters you get to very high champ levels seems every bit as important as getting to high levels.

If TC has a mixed hoard of LTs and CP it will be hard to get a threesome of meta characters to 500+. At best to has to wait until rescue leaves tokens, and hope that the next two releases are beats because storm is not meta.

So even for a putative contender, just chasing levels, or even chasing levels on "good-but-not-meta" characters seems like a mistake.

I said strong characters, i.e. meta. Agree 100%.

DAZ0273

AXP_isme said:

Then again, the next meta-defining character is always just around the corner. Unless you really get a kick out of the endless anticipation then all those saved tokens aren’t providing any benefit. Why not crack the hoard?

It’s a bit like having a few cases of really good wine in the cellar. You may never find an objectively best point in time at which to crack it open. You have to decide how you’re going to get the most out of the asset. If you leave it indefinitely then it’ll spoil. If you only dip in every 5 years you’ll probably miss the sweet spot and it’ll all be on a downward trajectory by the time you decide it’s ready to drink. At some point you may as well take the plunge and stop worrying about what ifs. It’s only a game, after all. 

side note: I love it when people write horde instead, the mental image always makes me smile. 

I suppose it depends on how you qualify "Just around the corner". The last Meta 5* was released in September 2018 being Kitty. This is the longest period without a new potential meta change we have had in 2 years.

Previous to that, Okoye was May 2018, Thor November 2017 and Gambit October 2017 so we have gone from a pattern of two strong/meta 5* per year to none in 2019.

Vengeance

Yeah unfortunately I have to agree with Vhailorx.  You missed the boat on the Thor/Okoye/Kitty tokens.  Should have taken them all to 550.  Why did you only pull a few of those?  The best bet now is to just wait until something good comes along.  Best of luck.

DAZ0273

OJSP said:

DAZ0273 said:

I suppose it depends on how you qualify "Just around the corner". The last Meta 5* was released in September 2018 being Kitty. This is the longest period without a new potential meta change we have had in 2 years.

Previous to that, Okoye was May 2018, Thor November 2017 and Gambit October 2017 so we have gone from a pattern of two strong/meta 5* per year to none in 2019.

I think this period of releasing less impressive 5*s might be related to the fact that the previous Lead Designer has left Demiurge. There might be a change in direction in terms of character developments and other stuff.

Well for all the hoarders sake I hope the new designer has got that out of their system and start knocking things outta the ballpark or else hoarding for the next meta 5* is going to turn into something of a running joke.

AXP_isme

Hmmm, sorry. Around the corner was hyperbole.

My point is that there’s always the chance that the next character redefines the meta but you won’t know until it comes. Jam tomorrow and all that...

jp1

I think the better hope is that a special store with 2 or more meta characters pop up. I’d wait for that and then jump on it.

bundles87

I think your best bet, and I know this is a super super long play, would be if you want to champ 5s spend LLs as they come and then hoard until you have enough CP to get 550s out of a store. I don't know if they would repeat Thor/Kitty/Okoye, but once a year or so they have the fan favorite store or whatever that's usually pretty good.
The issue I would have, from my own experience, is instant buyers remorse. Every time I crack a hoard to champ 5s I immediately regret it and miss being position to champ whoever comes next. I can't imagine that feeling if I saved up for 550s.