**** Black Cat (Master Thief) ****

RickOShay

skittledaddy said:

bluewolf said:

Could be 0.  The color is random, so it chooses the color and steals what is in the pool from 0-2 depending on how much is there.  2+, you get 2.  Can’t steal what the AI doesn’t have. 

I believe 3*/5* Starlord's purple functions that way.

I'm greatly hoping, and willing to bet, that it cannot 'target' a zero AP pool. 
Star-Lord, Loki's CD's, Kraven & Wa5p's blue, and others only hit non-zero enemy AP pools. 
Thought I'd mention Loki and Kraven specifically since theirs is part of a passive ability, much like Black Cat's will be (again, I hope). 

wymtime

@Brigby question about her airborne  ability.  If she goes air born and ArchAngel downs her will she still stun the enemy and do damage or will she just get stunned?  Or will the game break and shut down because of the airborne mechanic?

RickOShay

wymtime said:

@Brigby question about her airborne  ability.  If she goes air born and ArchAngel downs her will she still stun the enemy and do damage or will she just get stunned?  Or will the game break and shut down because of the airborne mechanic?

And please also answer the other questions above, Brigby!

Brigby

RickOShay said:

Gold_Dragon said:

Nova sends people airborne as well.

-snip-

Black Cat sounds fun. 
Wondering if you have a black match containing two traps if you get the damage twice, and the AP steal 2 separate times.

Also, does the steal always target a non-zero color pool? Sounds like it wouldn't 'miss', by randomly choosing an AP pool that happened to be empty. 

-snip-

If you get a black match containing two traps, then you will in fact get the damage twice and the AP steal twice, as well. So far in all my tests (did about 6), the steal will always target a non-zero color pool.

wymtime said:

Brigby question about her airborne  ability.  If she goes air born and ArchAngel downs her will she still stun the enemy and do damage or will she just get stunned?  Or will the game break and shut down because of the airborne mechanic?

That's a good question. I'm afraid that one I'll have to ask the designer!

Vhailorx

Polares said:

She looks pretty pretty good, almost on par with Iceman. Her stun is fricking amazing and her green is super cheap, one of the best damage/AP ratio for a single char nuke.

Vhailorx said:

Gold_Dragon said:

Her stun looks better than iceman’s and gamora’s. The stun is longer, deals damage, and you still get the stun if she’s thrown airborne by someone else. Put her with 5* Carol or gwenpool for lols

It's definitely not better overall than those two stuns, as it costs more AP and cannot, under an circumstances, ever create a stunlock on multiple opponents in a single turn.

 

I think you are forgetting that Ice stun can also not be multicast (well, you need to punch first, so for casting it twice you need 18AP), so he can't also stunlock a team in one turn (well technically he can, but he would need 30AP to do it). So she has almost the same effect than Ice for way less AP. And because her stun is 4 turns she can potentially stunlock the other team after 3 turns (even though 21AP is a bit too much).

We really need a power to get your team mates back from being airbone :P

PS: This is another release that almost looks like it is more like a 5 than a 4. SB and her are pretty pretty strong and with adjusted damages they would be amazing 5s. She could have been great with Carol, and she is in desperate need of someone making her at least usable, giving her some kind of combo or something.

I think you are a bit too high on her stun relative to ice (even though her stun is an usual color for stun, which makes it quite useful for team construction).  Ice's stun can do any of the following: (1) 6ap for 4 turns of stun; (2) 12 AP for 4 turns of stun + ~8k damage; or (3) 18ap for 8 turns of stun + ~8 damage, all on the same turn if necessary. That flexibility is great. And that is without considering the things you can do by manipulating the CD with something like Carol yellow.  something like im40 + ice makes stun locking opposing teams pretty easy (stun two enemies down the 3rd with Ice's blue and green).  Even with a premier purple battery, BC needs two turns to accomplish a 2/3 stun lock.

Plus the gap between a 6ap power and 7ap power is very significant.  2-match powers are app but impossiboe to deny.  Even just the on extra AP makes BC's purple harder to get off reliably.

I think we're are just all used to how good Ice's blue is because he is so old. But it's an absolutely awesome power.  Arguably the best in the game for some time after his release. 

Now I don't know if BC in total will be better than ice (she has very efficient damage output, and lots of utility with her purple and black, but she is also very squishy and I will have to see how well her kit works in practice), but I am confident that in vacuum Ice's stun is better.

ThaRoadWarrior

Black Cat's animations are pretty great. Purrfect Plan doesn't seem to have one, but Better Luck Next Time has 2, so I guess that's the balance. I have a lvl 295 Kingpin who ended up doing most of the heavy lifting, but I thought the art team did a great job. I expected Ronin to stand out a bit more than he ended up doing, but BC pulled her weight pretty well. I ended up taking a bunch of hits, and she was hanging on at 140 hit points for WAY longer than I thought in this match that similarly took way longer than I thought lol.

jp1

5/3/5

I was much less impressed with her than I expected. I agree her art direction is top notch, but she is not on Iceman’s level. 

Purple is awesome. She would be top tier if it was 6 AP instead of 7.

Black is a cool mechanic but hits like a limp noodle. Damage increase on this would make her top tier.

Green is good as it is. 

Based on her loaner with current powers, she could make a decent third depending on who she is paired with, she won’t be the main attraction. IMHO.

Still not a bad release, but she looked better on paper.

ThaRoadWarrior

She borrows a little from DD5 (extra damage on stuns) and Jessica Jones (trap-matching), nerfed down a tier. That black does feel like it was more of a 3* power at that damage level though. She probably plays up really well with Okoye. Generally speaking this last batch of 4* releases are all pretty strong for people transitioning to 5* play (except that they are going to be massively under-leveled for a long time).

bluewolf

I wish the Join Forces node didn't pair BC with Ronin, who both have a stun and both have active purples and greens.  Star Lord would have been a better choice so at least you would have a red power.  And Kingpin has purple...at least he adds black and yellow.

And you're facing 3 opponents who all want purple, 2 have a stun.....

A frustrating node to play.

Polares

5/3/5

Vhailorx said:

Polares said:

She looks pretty pretty good, almost on par with Iceman. Her stun is fricking amazing and her green is super cheap, one of the best damage/AP ratio for a single char nuke.

Vhailorx said:

Gold_Dragon said:

Her stun looks better than iceman’s and gamora’s. The stun is longer, deals damage, and you still get the stun if she’s thrown airborne by someone else. Put her with 5* Carol or gwenpool for lols

It's definitely not better overall than those two stuns, as it costs more AP and cannot, under an circumstances, ever create a stunlock on multiple opponents in a single turn.

 

I think you are forgetting that Ice stun can also not be multicast (well, you need to punch first, so for casting it twice you need 18AP), so he can't also stunlock a team in one turn (well technically he can, but he would need 30AP to do it). So she has almost the same effect than Ice for way less AP. And because her stun is 4 turns she can potentially stunlock the other team after 3 turns (even though 21AP is a bit too much).

We really need a power to get your team mates back from being airbone :P

PS: This is another release that almost looks like it is more like a 5 than a 4. SB and her are pretty pretty strong and with adjusted damages they would be amazing 5s. She could have been great with Carol, and she is in desperate need of someone making her at least usable, giving her some kind of combo or something.

I think you are a bit too high on her stun relative to ice (even though her stun is an usual color for stun, which makes it quite useful for team construction).  Ice's stun can do any of the following: (1) 6ap for 4 turns of stun; (2) 12 AP for 4 turns of stun + ~8k damage; or (3) 18ap for 8 turns of stun + ~8 damage, all on the same turn if necessary. That flexibility is great. And that is without considering the things you can do by manipulating the CD with something like Carol yellow.  something like im40 + ice makes stun locking opposing teams pretty easy (stun two enemies down the 3rd with Ice's blue and green).  Even with a premier purple battery, BC needs two turns to accomplish a 2/3 stun lock.

Plus the gap between a 6ap power and 7ap power is very significant.  2-match powers are app but impossiboe to deny.  Even just the on extra AP makes BC's purple harder to get off reliably.

I think we're are just all used to how good Ice's blue is because he is so old. But it's an absolutely awesome power.  Arguably the best in the game for some time after his release. 

Now I don't know if BC in total will be better than ice (she has very efficient damage output, and lots of utility with her purple and black, but she is also very squishy and I will have to see how well her kit works in practice), but I am confident that in vacuum Ice's stun is better.

Oh I never said her power was better, just that it was great, and that Ice blue is not as easy to multicast as you were implying. 

Also, I don't think it is fair to consider other chars interactions like Carol or IM and not do the same for her. She can potentially stun for free, for free!!!. That is way better! (not really because the chars that sent other chars airbone are pretty meh, but some other char might be released in the future with better airbone mechanics).

7ap is more than 6ap, but it is still a match4+a match3, so it is still possible to get it with two matches, so it is pretty cool (you might even get one blue from other match-4). And remember it stuns and does A LOT of damage for 7ap, not 12ap like Ice.

This power is amazing. You might prefer Ice's, but that doesn't mean this power is not amazing. The fact that you are comparing it to Ice blue is a testament to that.

ThaRoadWarrior

If I'm going to bring a blue stunner in, I'm going to take G4mora every time. 

DAZ0273

Tried out Black Cat, very underwhelmed. I had joined SCL9 to try and get a cover but not gonna push too hard, even tempted to take the event off or scrape to the 4* cover. We have had a good run of 4* so no biggie really that we have hit a semi dud.

LavaManLee

After trying her, this seems to be the classic "great on paper, but....." character.  Admittedly, I am firmly in 5* land so no need for her other than the required nodes but I am very underwhelmed with her.  This could be due to who she is paired with but I solely focused on her getting her colors and using her powers and it was not as explosive as I thought it would be.

zodiac339

Two frustrations:
1: Affiliation is Villain. There really should be an Antihero affiliation in the game for characters like her. This is more quibble than complaint.
2: Reflection of powers. If there’s anyone whose power should punish the other team for playing, it’s Black Cat whose power is literally to make people attacking her fumble and hurt themselves.

OTOH, I do like the animation on purple.

n25philly

DAZ0273 said:

Tried out Black Cat, very underwhelmed. I had joined SCL9 to try and get a cover but not gonna push too hard, even tempted to take the event off or scrape to the 4* cover. We have had a good run of 4* so no biggie really that we have hit a semi dud.

I played it and though she is really good.  Hoping I live another 30 years so I can get her well covered

Vhailorx

DAZ0273 said:

Tried out Black Cat, very underwhelmed. I had joined SCL9 to try and get a cover but not gonna push too hard, even tempted to take the event off or scrape to the 4* cover. We have had a good run of 4* so no biggie really that we have hit a semi dud.

For the record, I was cooler on her than the consensus before she went live. So I am not biased in favor of bc.  But this is going too far.  Her damage efficiency is too high for the term "semi-dud."

She will be good, even if she isn't great.  But when most of us already have 1-2 dozen "good" 4*s champed or even at 300+, merely being "good" doesn't cut it anymore. . .

DAZ0273

I am probably being harsh but I just don't see what she brings to the table. I can't see using her for her stun over Icy, Gamora or Energy boy Bishop and her black is deeply meh. Sorry to be the negative guy. I did want to like her too. 😶

Polares

5/3/5

DAZ0273 said:

I am probably being harsh but I just don't see what she brings to the table. I can't see using her for her stun over Icy, Gamora or Energy boy Bishop and her black is deeply meh. Sorry to be the negative guy. I did want to like her too. 😶

Well, for starters you can use her WITH Gamora or Ice. I don't know why people is saying one or the other. Why do you need her over Gamora? Her stun is on Purple, I am going to repeat it PURPLE. So you can use her with one of the other two to way more easily stunlock the other team. In fact with Gamora you almost have full color coverage, and no overlap in any active power, so they pair pretty great! (With Ice is a bit more tricky as they Overlap in two colors).

Said that, sure, I agree she doesn't bring anything new to the 4 space, but with so many 4s and and with so many 4s way more leveled than her this is becoming harder and harder. There is obviously no reason why I would bring a 270 level Black Cat when I can use a 340 level Iceman. This is a big big problem for new releases, even for the stronger ones like SB (being the exception Bishop, as you want him a bit underleveled, another reason more why I think he is a bit broken).

I think she is a pretty great 4, but one that we din't need for anything. This is one of the reasons I was saying before that she would have been a way better addition in 5 land than in 4 land. We need better stunners in 5 land, and with adjusted damage ratios she would have been great. I also think SB should have been a 5.

I know they are not going to stop their release ratio, but sincerely at this point, there is no reason to keep releasing 4s (yeah I said it). They should release a 5 every month and make CPs easier to get (and have two feeder for every 5) and move once and for all to a 5 game (no 6s please). They can still release customes and supports, but they really need to change how they release new chars.

DAZ0273

Polares said:

DAZ0273 said:

I am probably being harsh but I just don't see what she brings to the table. I can't see using her for her stun over Icy, Gamora or Energy boy Bishop and her black is deeply meh. Sorry to be the negative guy. I did want to like her too. 😶

Well, for starters you can use her WITH Gamora or Ice. I don't know why people is saying one or the other. Why do you need her over Gamora? Her stun is on Purple, I am going to repeat it PURPLE. So you can use her with one of the other two to way more easily stunlock the other team. In fact with Gamora you almost have full color coverage, and no overlap in any active power, so they pair pretty great! (With Ice is a bit more tricky as they Overlap in two colors).

Said that, sure, I agree she doesn't bring anything new to the 4 space, but with so many 4s and and with so many 4s way more leveled than her this is becoming harder and harder. There is obviously no reason why I would bring a 270 level Black Cat when I can use a 340 level Iceman. This is a big big problem for new releases, even for the stronger ones like SB (being the exception Bishop, as you want him a bit underleveled, another reason more why I think he is a bit broken).

I think she is a pretty great 4, but one that we din't need for anything. This is one of the reasons I was saying before that she would have been a way better addition in 5 land than in 4 land. We need better stunners in 5 land, and with adjusted damage ratios she would have been great. I also think SB should have been a 5.

I know they are not going to stop their release ratio, but sincerely at this point, there is no reason to keep releasing 4s (yeah I said it). They should release a 5 every month and make CPs easier to get (and have two feeder for every 5) and move once and for all to a 5 game (no 6s please). They can still release customes and supports, but they really need to change how they release new chars.

If I am using Gamora then R4G is on my team, that leaves one slot available and it wont be for Cat.

But hey, I'm not claiming my subjective opinion should be heard above others and it is based off of a very limited use of her. I was wrong about MEH Hulk and have changed my tune on Namor, so maybe she might grow on me. I'll see about scraping into top 200 for a cover!

ZootSax

5/3/5

DAZ0273 said:

I am probably being harsh but I just don't see what she brings to the table. I can't see using her for her stun over Icy, Gamora or Energy boy Bishop and her black is deeply meh. Sorry to be the negative guy. I did want to like her too. 😶

She does bring more potentially bizarre interactions with Colossus to the table, which this game always needs.

For example, if Colossus throws her and her green power triggers on landing, does it resolve before her purple stun is applied or will she get the bonus damage?