PVP has gotten unbelievably boring

Unknown

So I had around 975 score and put up a 3 hour shield. It was timed so that It would expire a half hour before the end of the tourney thinking I might be able to spring into the 1000 range last minute

The second my shield expires I play a few matches and win every time. After the first match I lose 75 for the 25 I won. I proceed to keep losing for every win just like that. Literally don't know why I bothered

Unknown

I had 1012 pts and ended up in 25th. All above and below me were loaded 141's. As much as I wanted to reach 1100 for the card, I guess I can't complain considering the company I was with. Those below me with the 141's could just as easily hated the fact that someone with 2 85's and a 128 was ahead of them.

Mindset now has to be different (at least for me). If I can get higher, I do. If not, there's always another 3 day tourney. Unless D3P is mailing me a trophy or giving me cash back, I shouldn't sweat it. At least this new one has zero interest for me so I can just play it and not care where I rank.

Art Flash

I'm inclined to agree with this too. I feel that ever since they added the desert node to every PVP event that I relentlessly see OBW with a green focused character. This makes the game significantly more boring, especially when you have events like the Daken event where you essentially have a team of two. It means that you see the same dynamic play out multiple times. I found myself actually fighting significantly higher level teams than my own just for the variety of not getting aggressive recon'ed and then having a storm called down upon me.
Then combine this with the Season 1 ultra competitiveness you not only get unvaried repetition but then you get caught up in a flurry of retaliations that force your roster to beg for shielding. For the first time I actually had to shield twice in a PVP event just to weather the beating. This effectively means that you're combining the annoyance of having your points stripped away with the monotony of repeated fights.
Granted many social games have similar repetition, but usually the reward system puts the player into an effective Skinner Box. You play a while and you get rewarded for the commitment. But recently the rewards are becoming so hard to grasp if you do not pay out or have an in with the best of the best alliances that we're now putting in time into repetition+annoyances without even the same sense of accomplishment of reward for our endeavors. Token probabilities don't feel nearly as high as before and there are no guaranteed payouts as well.

I'm still playing the game myself, but I can safely say I've turned the point from enjoying the game to playing it more out of loyalty and a hope that this is just a phase. But I can only wait for so long. I really hope something changes for the better soon.

Mavericat

I do find PvP extremely frustrating. At a certain point, no matter how much I play or how well I do, I will be attacked and lose points faster than I can get them back. I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to do, as it seems like the best thing would be to shield and accept whatever point level I've reached.

All in all, I think the system needs to change, so that you feel like you can do something to improve your standings. At a certain point on every pvp event, I feel helpless to do anything to improve my standing.

Unknown

Mavericat wrote:

I do find PvP extremely frustrating. At a certain point, no matter how much I play or how well I do, I will be attacked and lose points faster than I can get them back. I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to do, as it seems like the best thing would be to shield and accept whatever point level I've reached.

All in all, I think the system needs to change, so that you feel like you can do something to improve your standings. At a certain point on every pvp event, I feel helpless to do anything to improve my standing.

You are supposed to pay and have 141 characters to deter everyone from fighting you

Yeah, something's changed. When I was playing last year I would be able to do pretty well in tournaments if I played a ton. Now, top 25 is a stretch no matter how much or diligent I play. Even the shields don't help because the second I break it to try to score higher and get attacked so fast I can't keep up. The fact that somehow a random dude can attack me for a 45 point loss when he's got zero points total is demoralizing, especially when it occurs with an onslaught of normal retaliations.

Why do they let such low ranking people attack you? It's worthless to a retaliate so it's just a random bulk loss for the player that has been playing all day. The person that attacks you probably isn't even gonna get near your score

Unknown

That's why I feel they should try to do it like WoW arenas. You compete with those in your tier which is a very close tier. Someone with 1800 pts. won't be fighting someone with 200 pts. In addition, someone that is low level won't get the same reward as someone high level. What's the incentive to level then? It should all be part of a progression. You do the story, you can then pvp. You pvp, you work your way from 1* to 2* and so on. The higher level you are, the better the reward.

kidicarus

CornerPocket wrote:

So I had around 975 score and put up a 3 hour shield. It was timed so that It would expire a half hour before the end of the tourney thinking I might be able to spring into the 1000 range last minute

The second my shield expires I play a few matches and win every time. After the first match I lose 75 for the 25 I won. I proceed to keep losing for every win just like that. Literally don't know why I bothered

That to be honest, is due to your inexperience and you should learn from this.

Firstly, you put up a shield because (your position on the leaderboards)>(the strength of your roster). A lot of the top tier players don't bother shielding at 900 and beyond because they know they will not fall down that much and 2ndly to regain those spots doesn't take a whole lot of effort. Therefore, I can't imagine your roster being all that great.

This is demonstrated by the fact that you lose points faster than you gain them. In the last 30 minutes everyone's going to be looking for targets - they'll be looking at speed - therefore they will be looking at how weak you are and how many points you're worth. If you really wanted to break 1000 - you should have targeted a 30-40 point target and aimed to be unshielded for no more than 5 minutes.

When someone like reckless who consistently scores 1400+ unshields, she does not leave a half hour window of opportunity. A shield is meant to either consolidate your position or to give yourself some breathing space from attacks so you can jump to higher points. If you're losing points after using a shield then you're not using them correctly.

Unknown

kidicarus wrote:

CornerPocket wrote:

So I had around 975 score and put up a 3 hour shield. It was timed so that It would expire a half hour before the end of the tourney thinking I might be able to spring into the 1000 range last minute

The second my shield expires I play a few matches and win every time. After the first match I lose 75 for the 25 I won. I proceed to keep losing for every win just like that. Literally don't know why I bothered

That to be honest, is due to your inexperience and you should learn from this.

Firstly, you put up a shield because (your position on the leaderboards)>(the strength of your roster). A lot of the top tier players don't bother shielding at 900 and beyond because they know they will not fall down that much and 2ndly to regain those spots doesn't take a whole lot of effort. Therefore, I can't imagine your roster being all that great.

This is demonstrated by the fact that you lose points faster than you gain them. In the last 30 minutes everyone's going to be looking for targets - they'll be looking at speed - therefore they will be looking at how weak you are and how many points you're worth. If you really wanted to break 1000 - you should have targeted a 30-40 point target and aimed to be unshielded for no more than 5 minutes.

When someone like reckless who consistently scores 1400+ unshields, she does not leave a half hour window of opportunity. A shield is meant to either consolidate your position or to give yourself some breathing space from attacks so you can jump to higher points. If you're losing points after using a shield then you're not using them correctly.

This isn't really helping me much. I won't lie: I'm not rocking tons of 141 3 stars so I am not going to inspire fear in others as a deterrent to fight me. If you are saying that is what's required to get anywhere I might as well quit right now. Unless I spend $99+ on gold I'm not gonna upgrade all my 3 stars that fast

Secondly, as I mentioned I was un shielded for a few minutes and fought my first fight at a net loss. This means your strategy of targeting a 30-40 point character (which is what I did) did not help me. I was attacked 3 times during that single fight for larger losses than anything I would have gained. 30-40 matches are also almost impossible to find, and usually you have to settle for something in the 20 range... Unless the meta is spend ISO to relentlessly skip continuously whenever fighting anyone. Is that what everyone does cuz I admit I do not know

Thirdly, it might be true some people on this forum remain unshielded. If they are rocking the multi 141s then I suppose that might work. In my bracket, almost everyone in the top ten had a shield so I'm not sure I believe that no one shields at 900 mark. Just grinding to 975 was a chore for me, so I shielded when I got there thinking I'd make one last splurge before the bell. I will admit my inexperience did NOT expect me to lose hundreds of points within the time it to took to fight a few matches. That's simply ridiculous and is telling me to not bother again with any last minute grind efforts, which is too bad because I used to find those moments fun back in the day when there wasn't a shield option

It seems like what you are telling me is that I should be lucky to place decent at all with a weak roster, and simply should not be trying to place high in any match. I guess I was assuming that I'd be bracketed with people with similar strengths and rosters so I thought high placement was not out of reach.

Unknown

Subcore wrote:

I had 1012 pts and ended up in 25th. All above and below me were loaded 141's. As much as I wanted to reach 1100 for the card, I guess I can't complain considering the company I was with. Those below me with the 141's could just as easily hated the fact that someone with 2 85's and a 128 was ahead of them.

A lucky guy with like that roster climbed to #8 of our bracket and scored 1112 with a push in last 10 minutes -- at least that's what I saw 1m before the end, him being there unshielded.

But the usual routine was to get destroyed quite immediately even with 2 141s.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Subcore wrote:

I had 1012 pts and ended up in 25th. All above and below me were loaded 141's. As much as I wanted to reach 1100 for the card, I guess I can't complain considering the company I was with. Those below me with the 141's could just as easily hated the fact that someone with 2 85's and a 128 was ahead of them.

A lucky guy with like that roster climbed to #8 of our bracket and scored 1112 with a push in last 10 minutes -- at least that's what I saw 1m before the end, him being there unshielded.

But the usual routine was to get destroyed quite immediately even with 2 141s.

Agreed, anyone over 900's will get destroyed in the last minutes if they are unshielded. 1112 unshielded for 10 minutes is an abnormality. Grats to whoever did it, but he or she should not expect it to happen all the time.

Unknown

CornerPocket wrote:

You are supposed to pay and have 141 characters to deter everyone from fighting you

It was the case in the past, now your 141s are destroyed just like anyone else. And D2 adds all evil practices it care. On my second shield hop I got 3 hits on the 5th minute, one from a 0-pointer guy for -50 (and 1 pt retal chance). Just after the after-game report of 1120, instead of the cover I get that report. Cool?

CornerPocket wrote:

Yeah, something's changed. When I was playing last year I would be able to do pretty well in tournaments if I played a ton. Now, top 25 is a stretch no matter how much or diligent I play. Even the shields don't help because the second I break it to try to score higher and get attacked so fast I can't keep up. The fact that somehow a random dude can attack me for a 45 point loss when he's got zero points total is demoralizing, especially when it occurs with an onslaught of normal retaliations.

Exactly. At start of the year we had a good system of layered attacks. It also had the element of drag-down but at least in order to attack someone you had to be in close vicinity of points, maybe +-100, according point exchange being 30 tops. It was redesigned specially to have this feature to force shield usage and prevent anyone to feel safe anywhere.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

CornerPocket wrote:

You are supposed to pay and have 141 characters to deter everyone from fighting you

It was the case in the past, now your 141s are destroyed just like anyone else. And D2 adds all evil practices it care. On my second shield hop I got 3 hits on the 5th minute, one from a 0-pointer guy for -50 (and 1 pt retal chance). Just after the after-game report of 1120, instead of the cover I get that report. Cool?

CornerPocket wrote:

Yeah, something's changed. When I was playing last year I would be able to do pretty well in tournaments if I played a ton. Now, top 25 is a stretch no matter how much or diligent I play. Even the shields don't help because the second I break it to try to score higher and get attacked so fast I can't keep up. The fact that somehow a random dude can attack me for a 45 point loss when he's got zero points total is demoralizing, especially when it occurs with an onslaught of normal retaliations.

Exactly. At start of the year we had a good system of layered attacks. It also had the element of drag-down but at least in order to attack someone you had to be in close vicinity of points, maybe +-100, according point exchange being 30 tops. It was redesigned specially to have this feature to force shield usage and prevent anyone to feel safe anywhere.

If I was cynical I'd think this was designed so that veterans who have their 141's and know how to manage their shields are forced into buying boosts just to finish two battles before the sub-500 guys find him

Unknown

They billed it as an opportunity to expand MMR targeting, and it's possible that that's all they were going for and that they had no ulterior motives (not necessarily likely, but possible). By widening the scope of how far above you you could strike, it cut down on the number of 6 or 10 point matches that showed up in your queue.

Of course, if you get nailed for 40 points by people just starting all the time, and the guys above you are all shielded, then you still have no good targets available but you're also losing all of your points all the time.

As a veteran with an established roster, I found Season 1 to be kind of fun. However, all of my alliance mates are in the 2 to 3* transition range and they're getting massacred. A long competition with floating prizes was a cool concept, but I think it may have ruined the only viable avenue of progression available to players of the game.

kidicarus

CornerPocket wrote:

This isn't really helping me much. I won't lie: I'm not rocking tons of 141 3 stars so I am not going to inspire fear in others as a deterrent to fight me. If you are saying that is what's required to get anywhere I might as well quit right now. Unless I spend $99+ on gold I'm not gonna upgrade all my 3 stars that fast

Secondly, as I mentioned I was un shielded for a few minutes and fought my first fight at a net loss. This means your strategy of targeting a 30-40 point character (which is what I did) did not help me. I was attacked 3 times during that single fight for larger losses than anything I would have gained. 30-40 matches are also almost impossible to find, and usually you have to settle for something in the 20 range... Unless the meta is spend ISO to relentlessly skip continuously whenever fighting anyone. Is that what everyone does cuz I admit I do not know

Thirdly, it might be true some people on this forum remain unshielded. If they are rocking the multi 141s then I suppose that might work. In my bracket, almost everyone in the top ten had a shield so I'm not sure I believe that no one shields at 900 mark. Just grinding to 975 was a chore for me, so I shielded when I got there thinking I'd make one last splurge before the bell. I will admit my inexperience did NOT expect me to lose hundreds of points within the time it to took to fight a few matches. That's simply ridiculous and is telling me to not bother again with any last minute grind efforts, which is too bad because I used to find those moments fun back in the day when there wasn't a shield option

It seems like what you are telling me is that I should be lucky to place decent at all with a weak roster, and simply should not be trying to place high in any match. I guess I was assuming that I'd be bracketed with people with similar strengths and rosters so I thought high placement was not out of reach.

I'm at 160ish days and I won my first double shot and 4* cover on February 13. I'm sure at that point I was using either a thorverine or something like that. I'm very sure I boosted like mad and put up shields to ensure the victory (probably about 900ish back then). I only joined the forums in February after lurking for a week or two and therefore was totally oblivious to things like MMR before that. I am very sure before that point I would have been very inconsistent in earning my covers earning 2* covers and then slowly gaining my 3* covers. Sure I didn't spend much on my roster - but it did take a long time and I can say that it grew organically rather than through some P2W scheme.

Basically when you unshield, people start to see you and if you look like a quick target they'll take you out. It may be beyond the strength of your roster to shield jump in the last 30 minutes. I mean no disrespect but without shielding, you will naturally fall to a point level more appropriate to your roster strength. Looking back at my earliest posts, I talk about shielding at 775 (!) just to secure my covers.

I'm not telling you to be contented with mediocre placements, I'm saying that sometimes it's better to be prudent, conservative and not try to be too greedy with the shield jumping. Especially in the last hour or so of the tournament when everyone who is doing last minute grinding is looking for a big fat turkey

Unknown

kidicarus wrote:

I'm at 160ish days and I won my first double shot and 4* cover on February 13. I'm sure at that point I was using either a thorverine or something like that. I'm very sure I boosted like mad and put up shields to ensure the victory (probably about 900ish back then). I only joined the forums in February after lurking for a week or two and therefore was totally oblivious to things like MMR before that. I am very sure before that point I would have been very inconsistent in earning my covers earning 2* covers and then slowly gaining my 3* covers. Sure I didn't spend much on my roster - but it did take a long time and I can say that it grew organically rather than through some P2W scheme.

Basically when you unshield, people start to see you and if you look like a quick target they'll take you out. It may be beyond the strength of your roster to shield jump in the last 30 minutes. I mean no disrespect but without shielding, you will naturally fall to a point level more appropriate to your roster strength. Looking back at my earliest posts, I talk about shielding at 775 (!) just to secure my covers.

I'm not telling you to be contented with mediocre placements, I'm saying that sometimes it's better to be prudent, conservative and not try to be too greedy with the shield jumping. Especially in the last hour or so of the tournament when everyone who is doing last minute grinding is looking for a big fat turkey

As someone with a mid-level roster, I have to agree with what KidIcarus is saying. I managed to get up to 1100 points with OBW, Ares, and loaner Daken (mine only had the black cover). However, I did so by breaking shields, winning *one* match, then reshielding ASAP. I also waited long enough after shielding so that I was pretty confident that I had disappeared off people's queues before breaking shields again. All in all, 175 hero points spent net to get three 3* covers. It's tough, but especially in the current environment, to be expected if you want top rewards. Unless something changes, the good old days of spending the last 30 minutes climbing up are dead (at least for us 2* -> 3* folks).

Unknown

I can buy all of that. But it's getting tough to find the method to go from 2* to 3* these days. If 775 range is appropriate for my roster, then I can never get close to the 3 star 1100 rewards no matter the time investment...hell no matter the money! There is no shield wizardry that can get me up there. I need to build a 3 star team before I can compete.... To get three star covers.

Tokens are the only other way, and either my luck is atrocious or they have changed that too. Out of all the heroic tokens and 10 packs this season I only scored 1 3 star cover. It feels like the heroic tokens are just like standard tokens now, and standard tokens are beyond worthless. Especially now that you get covers just from playing pvp.

I could start flat out purchasing covers for the few 3 star I own I suppose. I don't do that because I need a lot of those covers to even make them equate to my current 2 star roster. If I literally get none by any other means then I will have to max a character with money alone not setting a good example of what's to come. The price of doing that seems ridiculous, especially considering that's only 1 3star character. I need another one!

user311

CornerPocket, what defense team did you have before you shielded? I think that plays a role. Everyone has different strategies. Someone said you should have targeted a 30 or 40 pt team. That was so true for this event. Relentless spending on ISO for skips was practically required.

Unknown

user311 wrote:

CornerPocket, what defense team did you have before you shielded? I think that plays a role. Everyone has different strategies. Someone said you should have targeted a 30 or 40 pt team. That was so true for this event. Relentless spending on ISO for skips was practically required.

I probably spent more ISO on skip tax in this tournament than all my such spending from it debut. (though the climb -- and re-gaining all the lost points drop much more certainly).

Unknown

For me, using boosts when making the push has become absolutely critical to make sure that I can win the match and re-shield before anyone can have a chance to beat my team. My last match, which was worth 31 points, I used the +3 to all AP, plus the retired +3 to all AP boost, and +3 R/Y. Came out pretty much undamaged, with time to spare to re-shield. Probably overkill, but it made me feel better.

EDIT: Note that this was against 85 OBW and 141 Lazy Thor, so you can understand why I was nervous with just OBW/Ares

Unknown

Just wanted to say I agree with this. Playing the Psylocke tourney it's:

1. All max level opponents. I can only do 3-4 fights before I'm out of health packs.
2. The same damn toons everywhere. There just isn't any variety. I found someone running a max Daredevil and I regret not having a go since it was the only toon out of the typical faces. I lost him after a couple of victories.
3. Skipping opponents just brings them right back in, if not the very next turn, then within the next 6 for sure. Right now I've skipped quite a bit and it's just the same rotation of names.
4. Boring as ****.