PVP has gotten unbelievably boring

Unknown

PVP has always been at least a little boring and frustrating I"ll admit - you don't see the team variety you do in PVE or the relatively unused characters of Lightning Rounds. It's pretty much the same team (featured plus OBW and Thor/Ares/Wolverine) every time where I'm at, and it appears to transition to slightly more variety but still basically the same teams one you get past the transition to the 3* level.

The frustration, too, comes from a few places. Retaliation is an idea that I think sounds better than it is; it seriously constrains matchmaking, because a match under 25 points looks like lost points in most situations. But there are also the constant retaliation wars, the worst of which are the ones on the cusp, where it's worth 26 but the retaliation is also 26, and no one breaks the cycle.

Another major one is the random 45 point defensive losses. The person just starting out, maybe less than 24 hours in, wiping out several matches worth of work in a single random attack. There's nothing you can do about these, and they're probably responsible for the majority of times I've gotten frustrated and quit a PVP tournament, because a couple of them at the right time can suddenly make climbing impossible.

The new changes to bracketing are hurting things too. I used to reliably work and get top ten. In a high demand tournament, I have to work now just to stay top 50, with the same score that would win some other brackets. It's the main reason I've completely disengaged from some of the tournaments.

There's a lot of possible solutions to fixing this - I think capping or even eliminating point losses from losing on defense would help a lot, for example, and I realize they'd have to reorganize awards for that - but this is more to express frustration than anything else. I'm not enjoying PVP at all. It gives me know enjoyment, no sense of satisfaction. It doesn't even give me much in the way of rewards, now that they've decided I belong in Nemek's bracket.

If they're going to continue having PVP as the centerpiece of the game, they need to do something to make it interesting again. They need to vary up the tournaments, introduce some new challenges or types or conditions, or something. I think literally every PVP in Season 1 has been featured character plus type. No 1* no Dark Avengers, no only female characters, no Divine Champions, no anything to break up the basic formula. If they're going to run 3 tournaments a week, they should make at least one of them something other than featured plus. They need to make PVP interesting again.

Unknown

Exactly how i been feeling today. Its just another reason for me to get fed up with the game with the way it stands nowadays. The only game that's allowed to make me angry is Dark Souls. A match 3 game has no right to do that lol and when it does which is getting closer with each day, its time to go buh-bye

Colognoisseur

I am going to be very interested to see how PvP changes after the Spidey nerf. I think retaliations are going to have to be more well-thought out. i also think with the influx of new covers there will be the rise of some new configurations that wont just be negated by Spidey stun-locking for the win. I think PvP will get very exciting in a few days once the nerf goes live.

Unknown

Colognoisseur wrote:

I am going to be very interested to see how PvP changes after the Spidey nerf. I think retaliations are going to have to be more well-thought out. i also think with the influx of new covers there will be the rise of some new configurations that wont just be negated by Spidey stun-locking for the win. I think PvP will get very exciting in a few days once the nerf goes live.

Not really IMO. The attacker advantage is still huge and all I can see different is more prologue healing and less spiderman in teams. Since you can beat most 3x100+ combos with a MMN and C.Storm I don't see people passing on retals if they are worth the points.

Unknown

I'd like to see alot more restricted roster events. Villains only, Ladies only, DA, Mutants (if we ever get enough mutants for a variety), etc.

I enjoy those a lot more.

Colognoisseur

bonfire01 wrote:

Colognoisseur wrote:

I am going to be very interested to see how PvP changes after the Spidey nerf. I think retaliations are going to have to be more well-thought out. i also think with the influx of new covers there will be the rise of some new configurations that wont just be negated by Spidey stun-locking for the win. I think PvP will get very exciting in a few days once the nerf goes live.

Not really IMO. The attacker advantage is still huge and all I can see different is more prologue healing and less spiderman in teams. Since you can beat most 3x100+ combos with a MMN and C.Storm I don't see people passing on retals if they are worth the points.

You may be right i don't know yet. Two points to consider is the great majority of the player population does not know about prologue healing unless you find the forums or another MPQ site that is not a common technique for probably 90% of those playing. The other is MMN and C.Storm are very very squishy and without in-game healing they will be at risk of being killed and no prologue healing for that. One cascade against 3X141 will kill them Spidey could recover from that because he wouldn't die.

As I said you might be right that it will just be a different stagnant pool of PvP but I see some signs that it might not be that bad.

Unknown

SirKopath wrote:

I'd like to see alot more restricted roster events. Villains only, Ladies only, DA, Mutants (if we ever get enough mutants for a variety), etc.

I enjoy those a lot more.

Apparently those don't make D3 as much money as the others, which is probably why we haven't had any for a while and I suspect won't again.

I do agree, themed tournaments would be much more fun, but people will only get pissed that they can't get as high points with them as with their standards combos, because the characters aren't as reliable/easy to use/powerful, they don't have them leveled, won't achieve xyz progression reward, won't place as highly, etc, etc.

What's the incentive for D3 to run those events, if people spend less and players whine about them, because they break routine and require flexibility and adjustment? None, more's the pity

Unknown

Carthl wrote:

SirKopath wrote:

I'd like to see alot more restricted roster events. Villains only, Ladies only, DA, Mutants (if we ever get enough mutants for a variety), etc.

I enjoy those a lot more.

Apparently those don't make D3 as much money as the others, which is probably why we haven't had any for a while and I suspect won't again.

I do agree, themed tournaments would be much more fun, but people will only get pissed that they can't get as high points with them as with their standards combos, because the characters aren't as reliable/easy to use/powerful, they don't have them leveled, won't achieve xyz progression reward, won't place as highly, etc, etc.

What's the incentive for D3 to run those events, if people spend less and players whine about them, because they break routine and require flexibility and adjustment? None, more's the pity

Hmm sad. I'd like to see the first PVP events with a new character cover as a reward be a restricted roster event though. Maybe that would be more incentive for people to play and shield.

OR maybe if new character covers were ONLY in restricted character events and regular PVPs were just older catalogue characters...

Ah well. it'll never happen.

Unknown

Colognoisseur wrote:

bonfire01 wrote:

Colognoisseur wrote:

I am going to be very interested to see how PvP changes after the Spidey nerf. I think retaliations are going to have to be more well-thought out. i also think with the influx of new covers there will be the rise of some new configurations that wont just be negated by Spidey stun-locking for the win. I think PvP will get very exciting in a few days once the nerf goes live.

Not really IMO. The attacker advantage is still huge and all I can see different is more prologue healing and less spiderman in teams. Since you can beat most 3x100+ combos with a MMN and C.Storm I don't see people passing on retals if they are worth the points.

You may be right i don't know yet. Two points to consider is the great majority of the player population does not know about prologue healing unless you find the forums or another MPQ site that is not a common technique for probably 90% of those playing. The other is MMN and C.Storm are very very squishy and without in-game healing they will be at risk of being killed and no prologue healing for that. One cascade against 3X141 will kill them Spidey could recover from that because he wouldn't die.

As I said you might be right that it will just be a different stagnant pool of PvP but I see some signs that it might not be that bad.

To be fair I was going for the most pathetic team I can think of that beats almost anything thanks to the genius AI 8)

Unknown

The big problem with PvP are the tourneys right after a charatcter is introduced.it essentialy turns the tournament into 2 man affairs which severely hampers the team variations.

I'd rather just see them give the featured character a mega buff, and let us pick any 3.

Unknown

Balance can also be created if they create characters that great counters to other characters. Like a Daken that prevents wolverines from healing, Prof X would cripple Magneto and so on. This would make you want to level all the characters and not use the typical characters that everyone uses. Now, you can use strategies to attack by picking the right character for the specific battle.

As you level in the events, you can only attack those within your point scale and can only be attacked by those within it as well. This would eliminate the 20 point gain vs the 40+ point loss. At the end of tourneys, you get attacked more than you can attack anyways so at least it controls the loss, those who play more gain more, promotes shielding.

Like WoW arenas, on your first match, you're not going against the top teams, you work your way there. Those that play more, got more points which in turn got better gear. Not too many complaints there (besides the over buffed arena character).

I don't really care about the losses. It's just the high frequency of them that at one point if your team is not stacked, you just can't win enough to overcome the attacks while your buddy that only 2* characters just got two 3* Thor while you barely squeezed one, spent more money (shields) and been playing a heck of a lot longer. This is something you'd never hear about in arenas. Those with the best gear were actually better than the rest. You never saw newbs get the same rewards as veterans.

Unknown

The bracketing is the one thing that's killing it for me. I don't mind point inflation if the community as a whole is pushing harder, but it's frustrating to know that some brackets have 800 point winners while some brackets have rank #80 at 800 points, and that it is SUPPOSED to be this way, not some freak accident. I'm not even hit as hard as others and my brackets have top 10s in the 1050-1100 range. Atleast I can hit Top 50 and make some sort of progression. I just feel bad for the 23/85/85 players that were starting to round out their rosters that are now essentially locked out of top 50 finishes because the devs are like "nope 900 points is no longer good for top 50 because you're on day 130"

I must admit I was a bit ignorant about the portion of gamers that get discouraged that they can't be #1 at a game that they are completely new at. I wasn't expecting to beat grandmasters at my 2nd game of chess. I wasn't expecting to win grand slams when I was new at tennis. There's something called learning and progression, and when I'm new at something, I just want to improve and get better.

Are gamers really this emotionally fragile? I mean, in one way it makes me happy that gaming has expanded to the point that there are so many people with different mindsets coming into gaming, but at the same time it has me questioning whether this particular game is really for me, whether it's aimed for people like me. Competition is relevant and fierce at the tip top levels, but at the mid-level it's become a complete farce

Unknown

Like mentioned above you can't have an interesting team choice when one of the character is permanently fixed to be someone. This game is nowhere balanced enough that you'll have a meaningful choice in the two other guys left. With or without Spiderman nerf there's really only at most 5 viable duos at the high end and the nerfs just changes which of the 5 duos are at the top.

Right now the PvP structure gives no meaningful advantage to depth. Someone with every 3* at 141 is barely stronger than someone with 3 level 141 if those 3 guys are the featured character and 2 of the more powerful guys. And if there's no advantage to depth, you won't see different teams either.

Unknown

Phantron, I completely agree. As I mentioned that pvp should be more like WoW arenas, pve should take a page from WoW as well. A lvl 20 won't get the same items that a lvl 80 will and you'll never fight things that are 20 lvls higher than you. Those that are tired of the new pvp, they should create a storyline for those going from 2* to 3* and another for vets. It can be another way to get characters but then again, characters are worthless if they keep making them useless. Each character should have a unique ability that makes them viable. Sure, there will always be that strong, power character but at least with specific abilities, you might use Psylocke more because she has a specific power that does higher damage to avengers.

HailMary

Ben Grimm wrote:

Another major one is the random 45 point defensive losses. The person just starting out, maybe less than 24 hours in, wiping out several matches worth of work in a single random attack. There's nothing you can do about these, and they're probably responsible for the majority of times I've gotten frustrated and quit a PVP tournament, because a couple of them at the right time can suddenly make climbing impossible.

Lack of enemy variety seems to always have been an issue, but this "200-point players hitting 850-point players for 45 points" nonsense seems to be a very recent "tweak," and for me, it's the most annoying thing in PVP right now. It essentially mandates shield-hopping or long-term shielding in order to protect point totals above 800 (which I suppose is good for HP sales).

Toxicadam wrote:

The big problem with PvP are the tourneys right after a charatcter is introduced.it essentialy turns the tournament into 2 man affairs which severely hampers the team variations.

I'd rather just see them give the featured character a mega buff, and let us pick any 3.

This format would be awesome, though (and I say this with no bitterness towards D3) it likely won't happen, since such tourneys spur cover-pack sales.

Edit: typo.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

The big problem with PvP are the tourneys right after a charatcter is introduced.it essentialy turns the tournament into 2 man affairs which severely hampers the team variations.

I'd rather just see them give the featured character a mega buff, and let us pick any 3.

Yes, the 2-on-2 type PVP sucks completely on every level. Sure the excel-headed guys do it as an incentive to make people buy covers directly or through lottery -- and I bet it works too. So it's like the SPAM, as long as those idiot that opens every millionth spam mail exist, we will have SPAM. If such a tournament measures to add sales above the average -- what it surely does, and that similar amount is probably missing in the rest of week is not counted -- they will keep coming.

On the bright side the second such tournament that is going immediately and has the new character at 1100, it provides an alternative way to get a starting cover for those refused to play the intro PVE grindfest.

The new bracketing and massively increased points add a lot of play time and frustration, removing (or massively nerfing) effect of losses from the MMR puts everyone on the road to MMR hell and to face unwelcome opponents. So everything "works as intended", soon the game gets cleaned of the old players. And the new entrants don't read reviews and guides so are happily hooked and pay up for that, then probably try to compensate the upcomung hardship with more money too.

Unknown

purinxa wrote:

Are gamers really this emotionally fragile? I mean, in one way it makes me happy that gaming has expanded to the point that there are so many people with different mindsets coming into gaming, but at the same time it has me questioning whether this particular game is really for me, whether it's aimed for people like me. Competition is relevant and fierce at the tip top levels, but at the mid-level it's become a complete farce

Gamers in general probably not. Gamers that are willing to buy ISO with real money? I rather not bet on their other attributes.

Unknown

Our opinions <<<< money. If the changes have resulted in more money spent then I doubt our feelings matter. Certainly I don't find that the last few events I've spent shielding / 2 attacks / shielding etc is even vaguely fun, I am aware my spend on shields has increased greatly just to remain competitive for a top 10 finish.

Unknown

DrUnpleasant wrote:

Our opinions <<<< money. If the changes have resulted in more money spent then I doubt our feelings matter. Certainly I don't find that the last few events I've spent shielding / 2 attacks / shielding etc is even vaguely fun, I am aware my spend on shields has increased greatly just to remain competitive for a top 10 finish.

So you're part of the problem then. LOL.

Not trying to start anything, but I can't stop my self from commenting on your scenario

You are unhappy, yet you still spend. So you are basically telling the devs that it's ok to effe you over, because you are going to continue to give them money even though you are unhappy with the direction they are taking the game...

This is why our opinions mean less.

Unknown

That's not completely true. Some might continue to play the game and spend the money but doesn't mean they will continue to do so. They might now because of what the game was or what it can be but little by little cut away from the game or move on to a new game that for now can replace this one.

I will say this, with the experience that I have had with Marvel, they actually do care about public perception. These licenses last typically for three years and because you have a license, it doesn't mean they will renew the license. In a different industry, I have seen licenses not renewed because of public perception. Realize that this game can be developed by many game creators, it's just a matter of making the right pitch when renewals come around. As far as the money is concerned, Marvel will make their money either with D3P or anyone else so it's up to D3P to keep that license.

That being said, it also doesn't mean that they D3P doesn't plan to better the game. Changes may take time and license owner approvals. I honestly don't think that if they tweak the game they will loose too much money. If that were to be the case, WoW would have failed ages ago as well as COD. They too have had problems in balancing the game between newbs and vets and even those in between.

Here's hoping that D3P actually reads their forums and do try to make the proper changes that makes the game fun for most.

Unknown

The lack of variety isn't a P2W issue. It's an issue with the format itself. In the current setting you're never going to find yourself in a situation where you'll be saying, "Daredevil, it's up to you to pull us through on the next fight". That is simply not possible, so even if you found a gold mine and maxed every character out you still won't bring out Daredevil because there's no point. The game fundamentally does not reward depth in PvP whatsoever because you need to have your strongest team as defense. Even if it's not a set of character that's good at defense (say, Magneto + Patch), it's still infinitely better than say Daredevil + GSBW.