Why not buff Sorin?

starfall
starfall Posts: 1,727 Chairperson of the Boards
in MtGPQ General Discussion
Something interesting happened at the start of the year, which I don't think any of us on the forum were expecting.
Brigby said:
Hi Everyone,

Last week we asked the following question for our New Year Contest:
  • Which 5 Non-Origins Planeswalkers were the top most played in 2018, and in which order of popularity?
We had written down the Planeswalkers at the time we announced the contest, and the correct answer is...
  1. Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
  2. Kiora, Master of the Depths
  3. Koth of the Hammer
  4. Sorin, Grim Nemesis
  5. Elspeth, Sun's Champion

Sorin, Grim Nemesis was the fourth most played (non-Origins) PW in 2018!

Only one contestant named Sorin, and even then, they ranked him last.
https://forums.d3go.com/discussion/comment/857483/#Comment_857483

There are two entirely different mindsets at work here. On the one hand, clearly, a LOT of players like to play Sorin. On the other, though, he is objectively bad. Ask any player in a top 10 coalition and they'll tell you never to play Sorin in an event; his mana is poor, his starting life is too low, his abilities do nothing without creatures on the table, and his first ability is awful anyway.

So, what I was thinking was, why not buff Sorin? This seems to me like a win/win situation. There is currently no WB PW worth playing competitively (this includes Kaya, who is very disappointing), so buffing Sorin opens up a brand new color combination to veterans. Meanwhile, for all Sorin fans in the game, he gets better! How could they not love that?
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Comments

  • jtwood
    jtwood Posts: 1,285 Chairperson of the Boards
    In the latest survey, Sorin was my vote on the question they asked about adjusting 'Walkers
  • Laeuftbeidir
    Laeuftbeidir Posts: 1,841 Chairperson of the Boards
    His mana is okay IMO. He is a good choice in many PVE events - but in the current meta, his health is just too low to..well, to risk using him.
  • Gilesclone
    Gilesclone Posts: 735 Critical Contributor
    Yes please.  We need a decent WB walker 
  • ManiiNames
    ManiiNames Posts: 213 Tile Toppler
    I don't use him any more, but Sorin was always strong in PvE.  As many have said, as long as they don't do 82 damage to you in a single turn it doesn't really matter what your opponent does.  If you play a lot of PvE then maybe he's great?  IDK.  Karn > Sorin in all circumstances for PvE IMO.
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  • Furks
    Furks Posts: 149 Tile Toppler
    Just giving him like 20-30 extra hp would probably be enough. Sure his powers require minions on the board, but so does Samut, and she's fine. 
  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    same with h2, unless you count spamming the first ability
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  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2019
    I'm personally in the realm of "Give him 20 more health, maybe increase the mana from his first a bit, then leave him alone".

    His mana isn't bad. Not every Planeswalker should be ramping **** out like it's green. Unless they're blue in PQ. Then they should make green feel bad.
  • OmegaLolrus
    OmegaLolrus Posts: 253 Mover and Shaker
    edited March 2019

    I like Sorin okay, but what I really like is the white/black vampire theme in Ixalan and Orzhov in Allegiance... I would rather see him get a totally revamped first ability than a buff to it... And like 20 HP, of course.

    Kaya's okayish, but she's really only good at one playstyle, as far as I can tell. I don't have her yet, but she isn't going to be supplanting Sorin.

    His HP is super easy to burst down in PvP.

  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    sorin needs a life linker honestly to stand a chance but as has been said, the gain isnt bad for a dual color and is about on par for most dual pws better than some. vampires are pretty much always available and they arernt locked to one defunct block. a bit more life wouldnt hurt and a bit more mana from the first ability are all i would consider honestly. just my 2 cents worth take it as you may
  • BATMAN1
    BATMAN1 Posts: 146 Tile Toppler
    Life pump and change his first and I think that would be fine. Maybe like 6life and 6 mana for 6 loyal. 
  • Etan0Winters
    Etan0Winters Posts: 27 Just Dropped In
    Give an option to empower the lifegain cantrips which no one uses and curb Sorin's complete dependency on creatures being on the battlefield?

    "Create a support which says 'Whenever a spell would cause your planeswalker to gain X where X is life gained, double that amount then remove one shield from this support.'" .

    Or, if you're feeling crazy... make a Sanguine Bond support  >:) .

    ... or, hells, if Sorin is in War of the Sparks... just make Sorin II.
  • arNero
    arNero Posts: 358 Mover and Shaker
    To be frank I find it somewhat odd that people still regard Sorin highly considering his low health and his creature-dependent abilities considering how NASTY creature removals can be these days, but on the other hand I do find agreement with those who say that he's good in PvE, where the opponents usually won't have five removals in a deck (meaning that he's frankly a little dud against Elenda and Azor's Gateway).

    For me personally, I think he could indeed stand to have that extra health and maybe one of abilities does not require creature to work. I rarely play him these days, but if people think he can get more love, sure.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    arNero said:
    To be frank I find it somewhat odd that people still regard Sorin highly considering his low health and his creature-dependent abilities considering how NASTY creature removals can be these days, but on the other hand I do find agreement with those who say that he's good in PvE, where the opponents usually won't have five removals in a deck (meaning that he's frankly a little dud against Elenda and Azor's Gateway).

    For me personally, I think he could indeed stand to have that extra health and maybe one of abilities does not require creature to work. I rarely play him these days, but if people think he can get more love, sure.
    His ult is one of the more powerful ones in the game, considering how easy it is to gain life multiple times in a turn.

    Honestly, if they just gave him +20 max health I think he would be fine.  Sure his abilities are creature based, but they are extremely powerful.
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  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    starfall said:
    Mburn7 said:

    His ult is one of the more powerful ones in the game, considering how easy it is to gain life multiple times in a turn.

    Honestly, if they just gave him +20 max health I think he would be fine.  Sure his abilities are creature based, but they are extremely powerful.
    I mean, sure, he'd be fine: Why not make him A GOD?! They could pump his power levels through the roof and we still wouldn't play him in TDW because he can't play with BSZ.

    @Mburn7 aren't you a staunch defender of power cards like BSZ and Quasi-Naru in Standard? Why be satisfied with Sorin just getting an extra 20 health?
    I don't know about "staunch defender", I have proposed reasonable nerfs for both of those cards at some point.

    I'm a bit of a centrist.  I don't want anything stupidly overpowered, although I will definitely use stupidly overpowered stuff it it exists.  Also, I'm not going to propose a change that I feel has no chance of being implemented, since that's just a waste of time for everyone.

    Besides, Sorin was already completely reworked once.  I don't mind him in this form as a bit of a niche Lifegain/Creature focused walker.  He just needs a little better survivability to be viable.
  • Sorin81
    Sorin81 Posts: 559 Critical Contributor
    You guys remember Sorin from the new game training? Before they replaced him with Kiora?

    http://imgur.com/a/GAXBFye

    I always hoped they would release a version of him. 

    But seriously, I agree with @Kinesia about changing his first to create a token creature. Maybe something like "Create a Markov Bloodline (minor/major/advanced) Vampire token."
    Other than that, I'm with the majority here so far, give him 20 more hp and he would be amazing. 


  • morgue427
    morgue427 Posts: 783 Critical Contributor
    not so sure he needs the buff just have to be a lot pickier about the cards in his deck, he isnt just a good choice to test decks out with is all 82 is about the same as c1 and she is, while not top teir a good pw by all means

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