PvP without 5* Thor

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Comments

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,456 Chairperson of the Boards
    PiMacleod said:
    ...  But somehow I hear that it's bad that we have a solution to Gritty in the form of a 5* character, just because people dont have him.  That's not a reason.   ...
    It kind of is though - if you have a 4* meta that needs countering, you can realistically achieve the counter team in a few weeks of dedicated play. If you have what amounts to an un-beatable 5* team because you missed out on the current meta to combat, the solution can't be an ancient 5* that you have no meaningful way to acquire in under a year.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    LLohm said:
    ABaker84 said:
    Hela will break Thor's hammer .No longer a need to nerf, if there was a need in the first place. Nerf is a naughty word that should be avoided
    Dear ABaker84,

    I think Hela nerfs all other green users far harder than Thor seeing that he gathers green AP for free.

    If anything, Hela breaks Thor the least.
    Nope. All other green users, you just avoid green and chase their other colors. Thor collects green passively meaning you cannot avoid the damage once he’s at half health (which most are bringing him in that way).

    Your turn: Thor has 10 AP
    AI turn: Hela deals damage and destroys 2 AP
    Your turn: Thor passively collects 2 AP bringing him back to 10. 
    AI turn: Hela again deals damage and brings you right under the AP threshold. 

    Yes she hurts other green users; but is obviously meant to hurt Thor teams more. Even the fact that she doesn’t drain much green is by design so she can keep pumping out damage. Will be fun to see in practice. If you’re running Thor, you must target her first. 

  • entrailbucket
    entrailbucket Posts: 5,843 Chairperson of the Boards
    Your turn: Thor has 10 green AP

    AI turn: Hela drains 2AP and damages Okoye (because cowardly Thor is hiding behind her)

    Your turn: Thor passively generates 30 green AP and 20 yellow AP, cast Okoye yellow to heal her to full, cast Thor green for 80,000 AOE game over.
  • crackninja
    crackninja Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
    Daredevil217 said:
    LLohm said:
    ABaker84 said:
    Hela will break Thor's hammer .No longer a need to nerf, if there was a need in the first place. Nerf is a naughty word that should be avoided
    Dear ABaker84,

    I think Hela nerfs all other green users far harder than Thor seeing that he gathers green AP for free.

    If anything, Hela breaks Thor the least.
    Nope. All other green users, you just avoid green and chase their other colors. Thor collects green passively meaning you cannot avoid the damage once he’s at half health (which most are bringing him in that way).

    Your turn: Thor has 10 AP
    AI turn: Hela deals damage and destroys 2 AP
    Your turn: Thor passively collects 2 AP bringing him back to 10. 
    AI turn: Hela again deals damage and brings you right under the AP threshold. 

    Yes she hurts other green users; but is obviously meant to hurt Thor teams more. Even the fact that she doesn’t drain much green is by design so she can keep pumping out damage. Will be fun to see in practice. If you’re running Thor, you must target her first. 

    Only time will tell, but I don't think she'll be too much trouble for thorkoye teams.  The damage can be dealt with, and Thor's passive will make it harder for Hela to fire her own green power which would be the real fear for me if I'm running Thor.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards

    crackninja said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    LLohm said:
    ABaker84 said:
    Hela will break Thor's hammer .No longer a need to nerf, if there was a need in the first place. Nerf is a naughty word that should be avoided
    Dear ABaker84,

    I think Hela nerfs all other green users far harder than Thor seeing that he gathers green AP for free.

    If anything, Hela breaks Thor the least.
    Nope. All other green users, you just avoid green and chase their other colors. Thor collects green passively meaning you cannot avoid the damage once he’s at half health (which most are bringing him in that way).

    Your turn: Thor has 10 AP
    AI turn: Hela deals damage and destroys 2 AP
    Your turn: Thor passively collects 2 AP bringing him back to 10. 
    AI turn: Hela again deals damage and brings you right under the AP threshold. 

    Yes she hurts other green users; but is obviously meant to hurt Thor teams more. Even the fact that she doesn’t drain much green is by design so she can keep pumping out damage. Will be fun to see in practice. If you’re running Thor, you must target her first. 

    Only time will tell, but I don't think she'll be too much trouble for thorkoye teams.  The damage can be dealt with, and Thor's passive will make it harder for Hela to fire her own green power which would be the real fear for me if I'm running Thor.
    Her green passive will slow down thorkoye noticeably.  Since she destroys 2ap per turn above 10 and he only generates 1.67.  but thorkoye can likely power through that by killing her with red damage.  But her green active is also a problem. For Thor as that rendomized damage will make "hide-a-thor" harder.  And it's different to suppress enemy green while playing hide-a-thor at all, let alone suppressing below 8ap. 

    I would guess that thorkoye will still be plenty good, but it might be slightly less reliable.  And it's a pain if your Thor dies and you have to both heal and then half-kill him again quickly. 
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    Actually half killing him again will be much quicker and easier, just play against a hela again. No more pve retreating.
  • crackninja
    crackninja Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
    Vhailorx said:

    crackninja said:
    Daredevil217 said:
    LLohm said:
    ABaker84 said:
    Hela will break Thor's hammer .No longer a need to nerf, if there was a need in the first place. Nerf is a naughty word that should be avoided
    Dear ABaker84,

    I think Hela nerfs all other green users far harder than Thor seeing that he gathers green AP for free.

    If anything, Hela breaks Thor the least.
    Nope. All other green users, you just avoid green and chase their other colors. Thor collects green passively meaning you cannot avoid the damage once he’s at half health (which most are bringing him in that way).

    Your turn: Thor has 10 AP
    AI turn: Hela deals damage and destroys 2 AP
    Your turn: Thor passively collects 2 AP bringing him back to 10. 
    AI turn: Hela again deals damage and brings you right under the AP threshold. 

    Yes she hurts other green users; but is obviously meant to hurt Thor teams more. Even the fact that she doesn’t drain much green is by design so she can keep pumping out damage. Will be fun to see in practice. If you’re running Thor, you must target her first. 

    Only time will tell, but I don't think she'll be too much trouble for thorkoye teams.  The damage can be dealt with, and Thor's passive will make it harder for Hela to fire her own green power which would be the real fear for me if I'm running Thor.
    Her green passive will slow down thorkoye noticeably.  Since she destroys 2ap per turn above 10 and he only generates 1.67.  but thorkoye can likely power through that by killing her with red damage.  But her green active is also a problem. For Thor as that rendomized damage will make "hide-a-thor" harder.  And it's different to suppress enemy green while playing hide-a-thor at all, let alone suppressing below 8ap. 

    I would guess that thorkoye will still be plenty good, but it might be slightly less reliable.  And it's a pain if your Thor dies and you have to both heal and then half-kill him again quickly. 
    It'll be annoying for sure, just not sure if it will be any more dangerous than facing a team with an aoe or stun.  My guess is I'll target her first, down her with red, and the next turn end the match by firing Thor's green.
  • marshall
    marshall Posts: 179 Tile Toppler
    Guess we'll have to see it in practice if she damages Thor or Okoye. If they designed her right, she should damage Thor, as soon as he collects not just on her turn.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,456 Chairperson of the Boards
    What I would want is a better defense team against Thor. I don't think Hela will do that for me, he does seem to collect too quickly. She's probably fine on offense against him. I think she is probably going to neuter my gho5t Rider though.
  • Tiggida
    Tiggida Posts: 64 Match Maker
    imo characters only need nerfs when they are too strong when used by the ai. That basically shows that the character(s) can be played mindlessly and with no skill whatsoever. If anyone needs a nerf right now it’s 4* rocket. Having thor Oko as a meta team is completely fine by me, because you can beat them with a lot of combinations of teams which allows me to use more of my roster if I want to. Gritty forces us to use specific teams and they are almost unbeatable unless you have the right characters. 
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sm0keyJ0e said:


    I don't remember who suggested it originally, but I've embraced the simple idea that the following should happen:
    Thor ONLY does his green passive thing if he is in front. This would basically solve the ThorKoye prevalence. Want that passive stuff Thor generates? No problem, but he's eating damage and you're sucking on health packs more often. Need to eat a nuke? Stick Okoye out front but no free stuff for you.

    Just my two cents.
    Yep I've been saying that since Gambit was nerfed. A god of thunder hiding behind everyone else. I'm up to 540 health packs now since Gambit was nerfed and I got thor about 2 months later. I didn't even find okoye that useful in the 3* thor pvp. She needs Thors battery or you use health packs like any other normal character.

    When you have a battery that strong it completely shuts out other characters unless they work with him. He's so damaging for other releases.

    Tank or no AP. Simple.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,822 Chairperson of the Boards
    So now I'm trying to remember if there is a character in the game that has anything like a mechanic where you would need to match with them to leave them out front, and then something happens.  We have "jump in front" on a number of defensive characters.  Anyone that does something like Thor is proposed to do?

    Part of the reason I'm asking is because the tech doesn't always exist to accomplish the ideas that we/devs come up with.  I'm not saying it is impossible....just thinking about it.

    Another thought I'm having is that there are a LOT of high end players that spent money/resources to ensure that Okoye tanks red over Thor.  And this would be quite an issue for some people to suddenly change his design this way.  But such is the way of nerfs.  Anyway, it would be frustrating to suddenly find that having a bigger Thor is better when people have been making dupe Thors, tossing Valk/Thor covers, etc.
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,814 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:


    Another thought I'm having is that there are a LOT of high end players that spent money/resources to ensure
    When's that stopped them before, Lot's of Line rooms seem convinced a certain character is about to get a nerf from a passive to 2 turn repeater. A character that they have pushed hard recently to have us empty hoards on. When I initially read this on Line I thought, nah they wouldn't pull that. Then I remembered who were dealing with here.

    So I'm ready for the 'rebalance'.
  • ZootSax
    ZootSax Posts: 1,819 Chairperson of the Boards
    bluewolf said:
    So now I'm trying to remember if there is a character in the game that has anything like a mechanic where you would need to match with them to leave them out front, and then something happens.  We have "jump in front" on a number of defensive characters.  Anyone that does something like Thor is proposed to do?

    Part of the reason I'm asking is because the tech doesn't always exist to accomplish the ideas that we/devs come up with.  I'm not saying it is impossible....just thinking about it.
    Colossus has the conditional team damage on his red if he’s in front and he’s a very old character in game terms.  They must have the ability to check whether someone is in front before activating an ability.  ...and Colossus’ red isn’t his ability which routinely breaks the game, so presumably they could use something like it :)
  • jackstar0
    jackstar0 Posts: 1,280 Chairperson of the Boards
    Grocket "nerf" could look like this:
    He generates 2 Strikes for each GotG member on the force at the start of the match.
    For each GotG member their strength is increased by X.

    If you want to Gritty, you gotta be saddled with another GotG (so no Bishop, or whatever).

    I do not want this to happen because I think Gritty is a great thing for the game (being NOT Thorkoye and still being viable).
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,822 Chairperson of the Boards
    ZootSax said:
    bluewolf said:
    So now I'm trying to remember if there is a character in the game that has anything like a mechanic where you would need to match with them to leave them out front, and then something happens.  We have "jump in front" on a number of defensive characters.  Anyone that does something like Thor is proposed to do?

    Part of the reason I'm asking is because the tech doesn't always exist to accomplish the ideas that we/devs come up with.  I'm not saying it is impossible....just thinking about it.
    Colossus has the conditional team damage on his red if he’s in front and he’s a very old character in game terms.  They must have the ability to check whether someone is in front before activating an ability.  ...and Colossus’ red isn’t his ability which routinely breaks the game, so presumably they could use something like it :)
    This is true, and I forgot about this part.  I assume you've already started playing the Colossus PVP.   ;)

    Presumably whether an ability is passive or not wouldn't cause an issue with the "check for this, then that" condition.  But that's easy for me to say....
  • LLohm
    LLohm Posts: 84 Match Maker
    It could also function like Thanos’ Come Get Me. The moment Thor reaches 50% life, he auto tanks everything.
  • Kolence
    Kolence Posts: 969 Critical Contributor
    bluewolf said:
    So now I'm trying to remember if there is a character in the game that has anything like a mechanic where you would need to match with them to leave them out front, and then something happens.  We have "jump in front" on a number of defensive characters.  Anyone that does something like Thor is proposed to do?

    Part of the reason I'm asking is because the tech doesn't always exist to accomplish the ideas that we/devs come up with.  I'm not saying it is impossible....just thinking about it.

    Another thought I'm having is that there are a LOT of high end players that spent money/resources to ensure that Okoye tanks red over Thor.  And this would be quite an issue for some people to suddenly change his design this way.  But such is the way of nerfs.  Anyway, it would be frustrating to suddenly find that having a bigger Thor is better when people have been making dupe Thors, tossing Valk/Thor covers, etc.
    Elektra needs to take damage for her black traps to trigger. It can be an AoE (regular or random) but most often she just has to make the match and be in front next turn. If that's hard to accomplish, she really loses a lot of her utility.  No idea if game "knows" how to check who is in front? I'd like to think that's not so hard though? 
  • crackninja
    crackninja Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
    Thing is, if thor has to be in front for his passive to work (which is a cool solution btw), then now he kind of stinks unless you also take away the half-health element.  He would be going down constantly and would require more effort than it would be worth to get him back down to half health.  And if you remove the half health element, then he would be a nightmare to face so let's just pretend I never mentioned it.
    Not only that, but his synergy with okoye would be destroyed because him being in front reduces the team up count by 1 each turn.
    If it's just thor's time to join gambit and oml, so be it, but I just want us to recognize ahead of time that that's what we'll get.

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