**** Talos (Skrull Warlord) ****

24

Comments

  • thedarkphoenix
    thedarkphoenix Posts: 557 Critical Contributor
    edited March 2019
    5/5/3
    KGB said:
    Brigby, can you clarify something about his Purple.

    When you cast it and he shapeshifts does he shapeshift into the target enemy and steal 'that' enemies strongest color or is it just the enemy teams strongest color? If it's the former then you potentially have 3 target pools to steal from by rotating to the character who's strongest color you want to steal It would make his Purple much more viable as a denier.

    KGB
    It reads like rogues power so I'm guessing who ever you shapeshift too which makes it better. Good catch
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2019
    3/5/5
    Valkyrie could be fun with Talos to help destroy enemy's strongest ap. 

    For his passive, as long as you have 15ap more than the enemy has in his strongest colour, his match damage deals 585% which is between 1140 to ~1500 match damage. It seems difficult to trigger though. Halving (7-8ap more) sounds more likely.

    5/5/3 for me maybe.

    Edit: I wonder what happens to his trap tiles if the targeted enemy is downed? Destroyed or stays on board?
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    thedarkphoenix said:
    KGB said:
    Brigby, can you clarify something about his Purple.

    When you cast it and he shapeshifts does he shapeshift into the target enemy and steal 'that' enemies strongest color or is it just the enemy teams strongest color? If it's the former then you potentially have 3 target pools to steal from by rotating to the character who's strongest color you want to steal It would make his Purple much more viable as a denier.

    KGB
    It reads like rogues power so I'm guessing who ever you shapeshift too which makes it better. Good catch
    Yes. It's the strongest color of whichever enemy you shapeshift into. Also, that color is conveniently listed in the ability description too!

    HoundofShadow said:
    -snip-

    Edit: I wonder what happens to his trap tiles if the targeted enemy is downed? Destroyed or stays on board?
    They stay on the board.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2019
    What happens if you multi-cast his purple against different opponents?

    Overall he seems like a lower middle tier support character at best.

    Purple is a redux of shapeshift (only 1 color, dependent on enemy team, but more survivable traps.) Would be nice if the trap tiles we're predictable so they would survive longer. Also nice to let the player chase AP theft by targeting matches, but it's still not likely to be a lot of AP theft in most scenarios.

    Blue is a pretty meh stun (requires 3 matches, has weak self-acceleration if any) and only does 4 turns.  There are 2 far better stuns on the same color in just the 4* tier.

    Black seems weak.  It's kinda like America's red, but only for one color. And it's relative to the enemy team. So it will be weak against goons. And it's value might vary a lot depending on how it is implemented. But even maxed out at almost +600%, it will still be pretty weak added damage compared to a good power.

    Some interesting mechanical ideas, but all tied to effects that are much too weak to justify the complexity. Exactly NOT the sort of character that is useful as the ~80th entry in a secondary tier of play. 
  • Jogibb
    Jogibb Posts: 11 Just Dropped In
    So stupid Namor is required for free cover. Just when you think they change it to give people a shot, it is back to old ways. 
  • KGB
    KGB Posts: 3,233 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2019
    4/5/4
    Vhailorx said:
    What happens if you multi-cast his purple against different opponents?

    Overall he seems like a lower middle tier support character at best.

    Purple is a redux of shapeshift (only 1 color, dependent on enemy team, but more survivable traps.) Would be nice if the trap tiles we're predictable so they would survive longer. Also nice to let the player chase AP theft by targeting matches, but it's still not likely to be a lot of AP theft in most scenarios.

    Blue is a pretty meh stun (requires 3 matches, has weak self-acceleration if any) and only does 4 turns.  There are 2 far better stuns on the same color in just the 4* tier.

    Black seems weak.  It's kinda like America's red, but only for one color. And it's relative to the enemy team. So it will be weak against goons. And it's value might vary a lot depending on how it is implemented. But even maxed out at almost +600%, it will still be pretty weak added damage compared to a good power.

    Some interesting mechanical ideas, but app tied to effects that are much too weak to justify the complexity. Exactly NOT the sort of character that is useful as the ~80th entry in a secondary tier of play. 
    I think you've over valued him with lower-mid support ranking. I think he's on par with Emma Frost (even with the targeted AP drain) as one of the bottom 5 in the 4* tier.

    His purple is vastly inferior to Rogue's green (costs more and Rogues power  stops all AP gain, does large match damage and ends with a Nuke) so why bring him over Rogue.

    His Blue as you noted costs 50% more than Gamora or Bobby's blue and their's is still better with secondary stun (Gamora) or Nuke (Bobby).

    His Black is absolutely awful given that 50% of the time the enemy team strongest color won't be one of his 3 primary colors. For example if it's Yellow then even at 585% damage his Yellow is only going to do 13*5.8=75 which is less than a normal 4* character with a Yellow primary.  His Black desperately needs to be reworked to be his teams strongest match damage in the same color as the enemy team's strongest is increased by that amount (even though that makes no real sense from a power point of view) so that it is viable.

    Honestly, could he even reliably win a Titan clash with Emma?

    KGB
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    3/5/5
    @KGB I think you have misread his passive power. The match damage increase applies to all his match damage that he tanks. The enemy's strongest colour is taken into account when you are calculating the match damage increase. To get the maximum damage increase, you need to have 15 more ap in the enemy strongest colour.

    I think it's unfair to compare his purple with Rogue's green. A fairer comparison would be Kraven or Mystique. 

    Talos's role is to reduce ap in the enemy's strongest colour,  which may or may not be useful depending on what your stategy is. He could be irritating to fight against though.
  • MrEd95
    MrEd95 Posts: 280 Mover and Shaker
    edited March 2019
    HoundofShadow said:
    @KGB I think you have misread his passive power. The match damage increase applies to all his match damage that he tanks. The enemy's strongest colour is taken into account when you are calculating the match damage increase. To get the maximum damage increase, you need to have 15 more ap in the enemy strongest colour.

    I think it's unfair to compare his purple with Rogue's green. A fairer comparison would be Kraven or Mystique. 

    Talos's role is to reduce ap in the enemy's strongest colour,  which may or may not be useful depending on what your stategy is. He could be irritating to fight against though.
    Agreed. His black seems to work similar to Chavez’ red, and although the potential damage boost if capped unlike Chavez, his other powers focus on making sure you have more ap in the enemy’s strongest colour. Could be quite effective to use with Chavez and possibly the hood or mockingbird for a 4* player, as whatever the enemy’s strongest colour is, you have boosted match damage in it.

    Also, as a side note, Namor has only been in the game for 6 weeks. There has only been 1 4* release since he was released, and magik hasn’t even been added to packs yet or been a featured character since her release. Is she going to be the required character for the next shield training? That would be unfair
  • Tony_Foot
    Tony_Foot Posts: 1,807 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2019
    MrEd95 said:

      and magik hasn’t even been added to packs yet or been a featured character since her release. Is she going to be the required character for the next shield training?
      I would imagine so. The only option for me is to BH and hope for the best but I have an appalling rate of BH from heroics and 4*s. I think I will not make it this time for namor. It's also a bit of a shame I keep BH meh 4* to get the shield training goodies instead of just applying levels to useful 4*s. So I think from namor onwards I will change my method and just accept I won't do ST and make sure my BH pulls are on useful 4* until a decent one comes out or Patch comes back.
  • DAZ0273
    DAZ0273 Posts: 10,269 Chairperson of the Boards
    I treat all Shield Training as a bonus, it is rare I have the character at 209 (although I got Bishop there last time but he is worth chasing) so I won't be getting any Talos from it. I've been collecting Namor covers as they came along but he doesn't really interest me at all so I have no intention of jumping through The Dev's hoops and scrambling about. I'm more interested in finishing Bishop.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,808 Chairperson of the Boards
    Tony_Foot said:
    MrEd95 said:

      and magik hasn’t even been added to packs yet or been a featured character since her release. Is she going to be the required character for the next shield training?
      I would imagine so. The only option for me is to BH and hope for the best but I have an appalling rate of BH from heroics and 4*s. I think I will not make it this time for namor. It's also a bit of a shame I keep BH meh 4* to get the shield training goodies instead of just applying levels to useful 4*s. So I think from namor onwards I will change my method and just accept I won't do ST and make sure my BH pulls are on useful 4* until a decent one comes out or Patch comes back.
    It's a bit hard to say for sure.  The devs follow a LLLCC pattern of 4Es (latest 3).  So the current Latest group is Bishop, Prowler, and Namor.  Bishop will leave and Magik will rotate in.  If she replaces him in the lineup, and if there's a new 4 on 3/28, then yes, Magik will be required for the next Shield Training.
  • MrEd95
    MrEd95 Posts: 280 Mover and Shaker
    bluewolf said:
    Tony_Foot said:
    MrEd95 said:

      and magik hasn’t even been added to packs yet or been a featured character since her release. Is she going to be the required character for the next shield training?
      I would imagine so. The only option for me is to BH and hope for the best but I have an appalling rate of BH from heroics and 4*s. I think I will not make it this time for namor. It's also a bit of a shame I keep BH meh 4* to get the shield training goodies instead of just applying levels to useful 4*s. So I think from namor onwards I will change my method and just accept I won't do ST and make sure my BH pulls are on useful 4* until a decent one comes out or Patch comes back.
    It's a bit hard to say for sure.  The devs follow a LLLCC pattern of 4Es (latest 3).  So the current Latest group is Bishop, Prowler, and Namor.  Bishop will leave and Magik will rotate in.  If she replaces him in the lineup, and if there's a new 4 on 3/28, then yes, Magik will be required for the next Shield Training.
    But haven’t they missed Prowler? I guess he wouldn’t fit well with cyclops and Gamora, but surely they should go back to him next time. I’m pretty sure dazzler and nebula were required twice as well, so they can’t mind repeating them
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    This guy seriously looks like he came directly from Star Trek.  His entire power set is based on the "strongest color", which is so stupid.  I've complained before, but I'll say it again: "THE STRONGEST COLOR MAY NOT MATTER AT ALL".  Which makes this guy almost useless in certain situations. 

  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2019
    5/5/3
    Early Life
    Talos was born without the common Skrull ability of shapeshifting, however he easily compensated for this by becoming one of the most feared and respected of Skrull warriors within the Empire, this reputation earned Talos the nickname of Talos the Untamed.[2]
    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Talos_(Earth-616)[/spolier]


    This could be the single worst mistake in the game.  The whole point of Talos in the comics was that he COULD NOT shapeshift, so he worked hard on his other skills, making him an offensive machine... in no way a support or passive character.

  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    MrEd95 said:
    bluewolf said:
    Tony_Foot said:
    MrEd95 said:

      and magik hasn’t even been added to packs yet or been a featured character since her release. Is she going to be the required character for the next shield training?
      I would imagine so. The only option for me is to BH and hope for the best but I have an appalling rate of BH from heroics and 4*s. I think I will not make it this time for namor. It's also a bit of a shame I keep BH meh 4* to get the shield training goodies instead of just applying levels to useful 4*s. So I think from namor onwards I will change my method and just accept I won't do ST and make sure my BH pulls are on useful 4* until a decent one comes out or Patch comes back.
    It's a bit hard to say for sure.  The devs follow a LLLCC pattern of 4Es (latest 3).  So the current Latest group is Bishop, Prowler, and Namor.  Bishop will leave and Magik will rotate in.  If she replaces him in the lineup, and if there's a new 4 on 3/28, then yes, Magik will be required for the next Shield Training.
    But haven’t they missed Prowler? I guess he wouldn’t fit well with cyclops and Gamora, but surely they should go back to him next time. I’m pretty sure dazzler and nebula were required twice as well, so they can’t mind repeating them
    They also ran Emma frost 2 times.
  • bluewolf
    bluewolf Posts: 5,808 Chairperson of the Boards
    MrEd95 said:
    bluewolf said:
    Tony_Foot said:
    MrEd95 said:

      and magik hasn’t even been added to packs yet or been a featured character since her release. Is she going to be the required character for the next shield training?
      I would imagine so. The only option for me is to BH and hope for the best but I have an appalling rate of BH from heroics and 4*s. I think I will not make it this time for namor. It's also a bit of a shame I keep BH meh 4* to get the shield training goodies instead of just applying levels to useful 4*s. So I think from namor onwards I will change my method and just accept I won't do ST and make sure my BH pulls are on useful 4* until a decent one comes out or Patch comes back.
    It's a bit hard to say for sure.  The devs follow a LLLCC pattern of 4Es (latest 3).  So the current Latest group is Bishop, Prowler, and Namor.  Bishop will leave and Magik will rotate in.  If she replaces him in the lineup, and if there's a new 4 on 3/28, then yes, Magik will be required for the next Shield Training.
    But haven’t they missed Prowler? I guess he wouldn’t fit well with cyclops and Gamora, but surely they should go back to him next time. I’m pretty sure dazzler and nebula were required twice as well, so they can’t mind repeating them
    The pattern rules all. Until they decide it shouldn’t. It was Bishop, Prowler, Namor last time and so it is the same now. You could argue that they should try to make it more even, or fair to players, but they have never really done that very often. I suppose they figure it’s better to follow a pattten for their planning as well as making it harder to argue against. It they follow their precedent, then you are more willing to accept that than seemingly random changes. 
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,959 Chairperson of the Boards
    MrEd95 said:

    Also, as a side note, Namor has only been in the game for 6 weeks. There has only been 1 4* release since he was released, and magik hasn’t even been added to packs yet or been a featured character since her release. Is she going to be the required character for the next shield training? That would be unfair
    I would say that there is a very strong possibility based on precedent. Bonus her ASAP and go hard in events where she is the prize (she should be featured a couple times before the next ST). But I tend to err on the side of caution with these things. 
  • PiMacleod
    PiMacleod Posts: 1,783 Chairperson of the Boards
    I know previous posters have noted that his purple is like a combination of Mystique and Rogue...  but not nearly as good as they want.

    That his blue is like a lesser version of bobby's stun...

    And that his black is weaker than America's extra damage.

    That said, hasnt anyone done the math on that?  You mention 3 different characters (or more) that hes weaker than... but mention another character who does all 3 of them?

    ...that right there, I think is the point.  Theft, AP denial, extra damage, and stun... all in one character.

    I'm not saying hes awesome.  I'm saying I think his purpose isnt something defined as easily as other characters.  He can be a utility belt for his teammates.   But of course, I'm just seeing/saying this due to the multi-character-comparisons people are posting.  Seems unfair to compare one kit that contains 3 abilities, to 3 characters who are defined by those abilities.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quick analysis of his powers:

    Talos 3/5/5

    7 Purple - creates 2 traps to steal 2 AP when you match the strongest color of the shapeshifter character. This obviously is not as good as Mystique's, which costs 8 AP. It only works on 1 color, but you can choose the character, which affects what the strongest color is. Note that this is not the team's strongest color, just that targeted character. Plus, the stealing only works on your matches, not the opponents. If I want to deny my opponent a certain color, I can simply match away those colors instead of collecting 7 purple and then start matching those colors, (if available). My conclusion: lame, lame, lame, lame, lame.

    9 Blue - Stuns for 4 turns and creates 1-turn CD that drains 5 AP in team's strongest color. The stun is obviously useful and something you want to avoid, but the AP drain is lame. It could easily make no difference. 

    Passive - match damage increases by 28% for each AP you have more in the enemies strongest color (39% if shapeshifted). So, let's say you have 6 more AP in that color, that's a 168% increase, bringing his match damage from 195 -> 255 to 522 -> 683. Obviously, this is not as good as Ghost who starts at 300% increase, but it's similar to Chavez. Please Note that Chavez has to collect each color to get the increase, Talos gets the increase from collecting 1 color. It maxes at 585% which would bring his match damage to 1,335 -> 1,746, which is still below champed 5* match damage. Also remember that enemy matches in that color decrease it, unlike Chavez. So.....even if you focus on their strongest color, the extra damage is minimal, especially if their strongest color is not a color Talos tanks. 

    My conclusion: Super lame powers, the worst since Emma. You can summarize him as a blue stun and ignore his other powers. In a Crash of Titans he would do well, but otherwise he's useless. Even in the Balance of Power event, I would rather use Ghost and Chavez. 

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