**** Magik (Classic) ****

JackTenrec

I'm not sure how Magik will affect the meta or even fit into my roster, but this is pretty exciting news.  Sufficiently exciting that I'll probably wind up playing the event to progression.

Dogface

Kahmon said:

Dogface said:

Got Bishop on 9. Still time to get the 10th, so BH'd him immediately. 

Bishop is in placement rewards for Hearts of Darkness, so presumably will be in scl 7-9 progression rewards of Strange Sights.

Ah nice, means i don't have to BH him necessarily. He's at 3/3/3 now so any colour would do (even though it's gonna be blue).

n25philly

HoundofShadow said:

100% FTP here and I will have Bishop with at least 11 covers by the end of Strange Sight. This is without BH, without lucky pull and without getting the extra cover from his SHIELD Training.

Not counting Alliance placement rewards and SHIELD Training for Bishop covers, there will be a total of 21 covers that could be earned...:

1) 2 covers from PvP placements 
2) 1 cover from PvP progression
3) 12 covers from PvE placements
4) 4 covers from PvE progression
5) 1 cover from previous SHIELD Simulator progression reward (if I'm not wrong)
6) 1 cover from 12 Days of Marvel

... by the end of upcoming Strange Sight PvE. 

The catch is, I did play competitively to get him to 11 covers. 

Two inspirational quotes to motivate those who are feeling down:

1) Failure is the stepping stone to success, as long as you learn from it.
2) Staying on top is more difficult than getting there.

Next stop: Prowler?

Take out the PVP covers because pvp sucks.  I'd rather take a difficult exam than play that much pvp if i even had the time to play that much.

Take out pve placement because for a lot of us that have lives outside the game it is just unrealistic.  How do you get there?

//Removed Inappropriate Content -Brigby

bluewolf

@n25philly

Are you wrong, exactly?  No.

The game is designed to tread a line between giving you rewards through play - feel like you are making progress - while creating tiers of play/rewards for people to try for and therefore feel like they accomplished something.  So top players probably have Bishop champed.

But if you somehow pushed aside rewards - which are the only real way to accelerate progress in a character other than bonus heroes - you are faced with the major problem of dilution.

Bishop was the 72nd or so regularly available 4.  Which meant that if you didn't even get 1 cover from PVE (which isn't all that hard, but put that aside) you'd need to make about 720 pulls from a Legendary store (without bonusing him) to have 10 covers.  Or get lucky a lot from Heroic pulls.  Coming along to this game new feels more and more like a complete exercise in futility if you ever hope to be competitive, unless you are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on it.

It may be that you have a lot of classic 4's well covered and find it unfair that a new one is needed now.  And that's a legitimate complaint, but this is a way the developers make you feel pressure to maybe spend some money and make up for a missed cover.  It may well be that the difference between what you have and would need is far too large to consider throwing money at, but that is what the game is.

n25philly

bluewolf said:

@n25philly

Are you wrong, exactly?  No.

The game is designed to tread a line between giving you rewards through play - feel like you are making progress - while creating tiers of play/rewards for people to try for and therefore feel like they accomplished something.  So top players probably have Bishop champed.

But if you somehow pushed aside rewards - which are the only real way to accelerate progress in a character other than bonus heroes - you are faced with the major problem of dilution.

Bishop was the 72nd or so regularly available 4.  Which meant that if you didn't even get 1 cover from PVE (which isn't all that hard, but put that aside) you'd need to make about 720 pulls from a Legendary store (without bonusing him) to have 10 covers.  Or get lucky a lot from Heroic pulls.  Coming along to this game new feels more and more like a complete exercise in futility if you ever hope to be competitive, unless you are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on it.

It may be that you have a lot of classic 4's well covered and find it unfair that a new one is needed now.  And that's a legitimate complaint, but this is a way the developers make you feel pressure to maybe spend some money and make up for a missed cover.  It may well be that the difference between what you have and would need is far too large to consider throwing money at, but that is what the game is.

The thing is with the old hybrid system we had I likely don't pull enough covers to get him to level 209, but I at least feel there is a chance.  With full dilution back it does the opposite of what you say.  It feels so impossible and futile I see no reason to spend a penny chasing it.

Between there really being no point in chasing and most bundles anymore being the poster child for predatory practices it's becoming really hard to justify spending on the game.  Lately I've only been doing minimal purchases to keep bonuses going and only with what I get from the google surveys that I really have nothing else to spend that credit on so I'm not even using real money.  I was never a big spender but my birthday is next week and in the past I'd probably spend a good $20 to treat myself.  The way things are no way that is going to happen. 

KGB

n25philly said:

The thing is with the old hybrid system we had I likely don't pull enough covers to get him to level 209, but I at least feel there is a chance.  With full dilution back it does the opposite of what you say.  It feels so impossible and futile I see no reason to spend a penny chasing it.

I'm a F2P player (well I have VIP but the $ for that comes from Google Surveys so technically I'm not spending my money)  and I have him at 10 covers.

From HoundOfShadows list I got

1 cover from PvP progression
1 cover from PvE placements (T100 in his release event)
1 cover from his Shield Training (not sure if HoundOfShadow included that in his list)
4 covers from PvE progression
1 cover from previous SHIELD Simulator progression reward (this past season)
1 cover from 12 Days of Marvel
1 cover from opening LTs (trying to get 1 5* cover for Kingpin and Dr Doom)

Other than 1 PvP progression all the rest were eminently earnable if you have a 4* roster. I probably opened roughly 30 LT's to get 1 cover for Kingping and Dr Doom. If you put him as a bonus hero you'd likely have 1 more to make up for the PvP you don't play.

How many covers do you have for him? I cover pretty much most 4* to 10 covers in this manner before they are needed in Shield Training. I think I only have 3 or 4 total 4* characters who don't have 10 covers and a couple of those are old characters I'd be able to buy a cover via hero points for.

KGB

HoundofShadow

All my Bishop covers were earned via:

1x PvP progression reward,
4 x PvE progression rewards
1 x 12 Days of Marvel progression reward
1 x Shield Simulator progression and PvE placement rewards.
4 x PvE placement rewards (at least)

@n25philly

The number of rewards non-placement conscious players get are pretty predictable. It's typically 5 or 6 covers for that required newer character in SHIELD Training, in this case Bishop. 

There's a gap of 4-5 covers for progression rewards only players. Competitive players are unlikely to face this gap.

What you are experiencing is sales 101: creating a need or gap between what the customers have and what they would want to have.

If non-competitive players can get between 7 to 10 covers for newer characters for their required SHIELD Training nodes, then the pain point is not big enough all or most players who play regularly. 

But, once in a while, SHIELD Training requires all older or vintage 4*. 

If you choose to ignore covers gained from PvE placements rewards and covers from PvP, then there are a few options left for you:  

1) ignore SHIELD Trainings or set a realistic expectation on how much you can complete them.
2) Look out for SHIELD Training that requires all vintage 4* characters
3) get lucky from Vaults, Heroics, Classics or LTs.
4) Spend 120 CP to buy the unlocked covers.
5) wait for them to implement Latest 12 4* with higher odds again

The best scenario is, without a doubt, double or triple the number of 4* covers in progression rewards. Realistically speaking and putting 7-day PvE aside, doubling the number of 4* covers in progression rewards might happen in SCL 10.

jamesh

3/5/5

CNash said:

The flavour text on "Ruler of Limbo" / "The Return" makes it sound like she should go invisible while her repeater is out. Otherwise Magik "goes to Limbo"... but the enemy team can follow her there and whack her anyway?

Just wait for the support release in a couple of weeks.  People complained that Namor's purple didn't feed any of his own colours.  Now we've got the Atlantis support with a synergy perk that generates extra AP on match-5s.

It doesn't seem impossible that we'll see a soul sword support with a synergy perk that renders Magik invislbe while the repeater is out.

Quebbster

spidyjedi84 said:

Quebbster said:

I like the synergy of the SHIELD training characters. Bishop will generate blue, which Iron Fist can then use to fortify Grocket's strike tiles and generate AP.

Except the first round of SHIELD training is two of those characters and then Magik, to give you an idea how she fares with a team... 

Yeah, that's one node. But to get the Magik cover you need to play Three nodes with Bishop, Fist and Grocket, so there is still plenty of opportunity to enjoy the synergy. Heck, I might play that team in the other nodes where only one of them is required...

MoonKnight

KGB said:

n25philly said:

The thing is with the old hybrid system we had I likely don't pull enough covers to get him to level 209, but I at least feel there is a chance.  With full dilution back it does the opposite of what you say.  It feels so impossible and futile I see no reason to spend a penny chasing it.

I'm a F2P player (well I have VIP but the $ for that comes from Google Surveys so technically I'm not spending my money)  and I have him at 10 covers

A few questions
1) How long have you been playing, and how long of that time is F2P? If you’ve been playing 3 years F2P, it’s not really the same as someone at ~1 year F2P. Conversely, if you’ve played 2 years but the first you spent $100/month I wouldn’t consider that true F2P.

2) You mention all of the placement covers are available with a 4* roster. This to me is inherently wrong. No placements rewards are available to only 4* rosters. The amount of champed 5* rosters floating in 7-10 SCLs is high. Unless you’re a 4* player who’s in an alliance that’s cool with not getting any points from you in an event, and then finding a bracket flip, you pretty much need at least one 5* champ to place. My guess is you have the wherewithal to know when a bracket flips, you’re in an alliance that wants your points.

I agree with @bluewolf and @HoundofShadow, as a player that started around 8 months ago and is between F2P and whale (buy VIP, 75% of bundles with covers, the occasional stark buy) I only have 7 covers of Bishop from placement and virtue of being in a T100 PvE alliance. If me, a person who spends on average $50/month on the game, can’t find enough covers to play there’s a dilution problem. Not trying to poo poo your sentiment and I am glad you can obtain them, but I would say there is a problem. 

Dogface

My last spending was on December 2017, and i got Bishop at 9 covers (no BH). So it's not impossible to get him to 10 before Shield Training as FTP. Considering that he's only recently available, i consider all covers i got for him as gotten through play and luck of draw. I play PVE for placement (T50 SCL7, so no 4* there) and usually don't bother with PVP (some last minute fights in hopefully a slacker bracket).
My other account which has him at 7 covers without a penny spent.

TPF Alexis

Quebbster said:

spidyjedi84 said:

Quebbster said:

I like the synergy of the SHIELD training characters. Bishop will generate blue, which Iron Fist can then use to fortify Grocket's strike tiles and generate AP.

Except the first round of SHIELD training is two of those characters and then Magik, to give you an idea how she fares with a team... 

Yeah, that's one node. But to get the Magik cover you need to play Three nodes with Bishop, Fist and Grocket, so there is still plenty of opportunity to enjoy the synergy. Heck, I might play that team in the other nodes where only one of them is required...

When I have all three of the Characters involved, unless they're truly terrible together, I always like to run through the whole Shield Training with all three of them. Just a fun little extra twist on the event.

MoonKnight

Dogface said:

My last spending was on December 2017, and i got Bishop at 9 covers (no BH). So it's not impossible to get him to 10 before Shield Training as FTP. Considering that he's only recently available, i consider all covers i got for him as gotten through play and luck of draw. I play PVE for placement (T50 SCL7, so no 4* there) and usually don't bother with PVP (some last minute fights in hopefully a slacker bracket).
My other account which has him at 7 covers without a penny spent.

I think you missed the point being made a little. You stopped paying in 2017, meaning you’ve had a year of F2P with some sort of roster built beforehand. That’s not really analogous to a F2P starting January 2018 to now as F2P. If you stopped spending with 30 fully champed 4* (I’m just speculating) then the spending wasn’t going to affect you much in the new acquiring of 4*. If you started your F2P time with a champed R&G and Medusa/Carnage/America, the extra money wasn’t going to help you much. 

Without knowing what roster you have before F2P it’s a tough comparison to make towards a new F2P player. It’s also tough to know how long your second account has been active, but if you’ve got enough time/effort to put into a second account I’d say you wouldn’t be in the majority of the general game playing populace. 

HoundofShadow

I am 100% FTP since Day 1 (started playing in mid to late Nov 2017). I'm pretty much on track (10 covers at least) with every newly released 4* required in SHIELD Training since stepping into 4* land. Which means, if Prowler is chosen as the required character in the next shield training, it's a guarantee that I will get him to at least 10 covers by then.

For placement in SCL7, you don't need to have at least 1 champed 5* to place in top 10 in SCL 7. Because I done it multiple time. You just need to play smart and make use of whatever is available in the game to your advantage. Know your weakness and strength of your roster and plan accordingly.

To get to 10 covers is simple. You just need to be competitive. That's it. No RNG needed. You don't need to whale your way into 10 covers. You don't even need to BH or spend any cp. I understand that not everyone are interested in being competitive, and they are going to burn out if they force themselves to be competitive. But that's the difference between competitive and non-competitive players (whales, lucky pulls, real life schedules etc aside).

Brigby

*Please keep all comments on the topic of Magik

If you wish to discuss the potential extent of player progression, based on whether or not they have made any purchases, then please start a new thread. Thank you!

Dogface

Or you can get very lucky like I did today. Got in PVP with 15 minutes to spare and when I entered I was no. 1. That's when you know you hit a great bracket. First 3 seed teams and then some 'real' battles. Ended up 1 of 17. Result: 2 Prowler covers, 3 Heroics and some more stuff. That's how I like to play PVP (Must say it does happen too that I enter and rank 480 at the start, so it depends)

ThaRoadWarrior

skittledaddy said:

Run Magik with C4ge and each time ANYONE (either team) fires a power you're sending out Protect tiles.
Then they start fortifying themselves to no end.
Then fire C4ge's Yellow and you're REALLY in business

Not fast, but you're hardly going to take any damage the entire time.

May as well run P4nther in there too, that way when you start matching them away due to the sheer number of protects on the board, you'll be doing that mega-damage

purplemur

YAY!!!
She looks fun too! 21 AP combo again but at least it hits hard and ramps fast. 
Those passives play very nice with others:

My usual xmen spammer is Psylock but Ilyana's nuke hits too hard and the strike tile colors get so close but don't quite synergize, so I might slot in Beast: no active color overlap, his blue tiles will get buffed and fortified so when he wrecks the lab they will stick around through any cascades.
I think her colors are well suited but a lament she overlaps totes with Nighcrawler. I would call that team Clifford: the big red Bamf.
I like her with LC/IF: all those boosted shields flipping over! her strikes help with hobo's spammyblue, All those fortified specials! I would choose her Red over Fiddlefaddle.
Lets talk about Shuri.  you fire a power: get two fortified, which make it so it's cheaper to cast and will just start looping, then your critical mass and your going to start having all the red tiles causing cascades which will rack up some insane bombs.
I think Sandman(5/3/5) will complement: with extra shields being already out there when he fires his yellow you will probably meet the threshold and drop big damage, He goes well with PinkPanther (3/5/5)to exploit the shields and without competition on Blue would be a good team to run, With that set-up though I think using By Tooth and Claw would be better than just a big nuke from Magik's red. Slightly cheaper and You will double down on the boosting of tiles. 
Riri would do well with Magik just to further ramp the big red, likewise Cyclops and hulkbuster natch
War machine does good on one of these teams, with him generating attack tiles that will later get fortified and boosted and his GG being moderately affordable at 8. 
5eye looks delicious on paper(I don't have a single blue cover yet so... all spec)  his arrows flooding the board with her passive blue and most of the time meeting the threshold for his Deep Breath (also cheap), his purple doesn't overlap and he will soak most of the damage

i think with Magik it comes down to if you want to run offense through her red or use her as a special tile protector and red battery. There are a lot of big red nukes out there but hers is pretty high damage and you get the removal which I cant recall of top of my head if any other red active has removal. 

bbigler

How about 5*Hawkeye + Magik + Bishop..........Hawkeye fires off a blue arrow, you get 2 fortified protects.....next turn Bishop removes the 2 protects to give you 3 Blue AP......Hawkeye CD tile resolves giving you 3 Blue + 2 Red AP.......to start the cycle all over again (without matching any more blue). It's a true AP engine. 

Of course, Hawkeye + Coulson is a better engine, but the one above has more defense. 

frederec

bbigler said:

How about 5*Hawkeye + Magik + Bishop..........Hawkeye fires off a blue arrow, you get 2 fortified protects.....next turn Bishop removes the 2 protects to give you 3 Blue AP......Hawkeye CD tile resolves giving you 3 Blue + 2 Red AP.......to start the cycle all over again (without matching any more blue). It's a true AP engine. 

Of course, Hawkeye + Coulson is a better engine, but the one above has more defense. 

That's a great idea!  I may have to try that and compare it to my other fun Hawkeye team with Coulson and Shuri.  I completely forget about Bishop's ability to turn protects into blue.  A little too much blue overlap, but I wonder how well Bishop can help you stun lock everything.  That's one nice thing about Shuri, her stun is on green, so it can be harder to get enough, but it doesn't drain your blue.