DAZ0273 said: We are sorely missing Iron Man villains. I liked it when he was part of the Soviet Super Soldier team with Titanium Man, Vanguard, Ursa Major and Dark Star.
Dormammu said: DAZ0273 said: We are sorely missing Iron Man villains. I liked it when he was part of the Soviet Super Soldier team with Titanium Man, Vanguard, Ursa Major and Dark Star. It just now occurred to me that Iron Man may have the worst rogue's gallery in all of comics.
DAZ0273 said: Dormammu said: DAZ0273 said: We are sorely missing Iron Man villains. I liked it when he was part of the Soviet Super Soldier team with Titanium Man, Vanguard, Ursa Major and Dark Star. It just now occurred to me that Iron Man may have the worst rogue's gallery in all of comics. What makes you say that?
Dormammu said: DAZ0273 said: Dormammu said: DAZ0273 said: We are sorely missing Iron Man villains. I liked it when he was part of the Soviet Super Soldier team with Titanium Man, Vanguard, Ursa Major and Dark Star. It just now occurred to me that Iron Man may have the worst rogue's gallery in all of comics. What makes you say that? Because I think he has krappy villains.Spider-Man probably has the best rogue's gallery in all of comics. Iron Man doesn't have a single villain that's 'his' who can compare to guys like Ock, Venom, and Goblin. Even Spider-Man's 2nd-raters like Vulture and Kraven are better than anything Iron Man has. Tony's villains are more like Spider-Man's 3rd-raters (Electro, Rhino, & that ilk). I mean, Iron Man's most recognizable villain, the Mandarin, can't hold a candle to the Hobgoblin.Of course, the Fantastic Four have the single greatest villain in all of comics: Dr. Doom. (Sorry, Joker, but it's true).
I think the idea of a *worst* Rogues gallery is probably not valid. Any Rogues Gallery can be excellent if handled well. I think a good example is probably Geoff Johns and what he did for The Flash, which had utter dregs like Mirror Master and Captain Boomerang. Black Manta has also been redeemed somewhat over the years (Aquaman was pretty great already under Peter David but most people didn’t read that) from the lows of his Super Friends days. I thought he was pretty nifty in the Aqua-movie.
Take Batman’s Rogues gallery – many people consider Batman to have the finest Rogues Gallery but I think what has really happened is that because Batman can't move planets or travel through time, his villains tend to have to do less to be considered worthwhile foes. It also helps that more than most they are enshrined in public knowledge in a way most other villains aren’t. However, if you created The Penguin, The Riddler and yes even The Joker today, I suspect they would be considered fairly lame.
Dormammu referenced Venom as a great Spider-Man villain but I’ve never seen it myself. The symbiote is an interesting idea and obviously the Black Costume is a masterclass in costume design but Venom himself has never really excited me. Monster with big teeth and paper thin motives – I always thought that Brock’s background story in ASM #300 was contrived and the two becoming Venom was a hackneyed plot point. In comparison, the origin of the Scorpion is better but not all that dis-similar. That isn’t to say that good writers can’t do great Venom stories – I just don’t think I have ever read one.
I suppose we should remember that a lot of our Rogues Galleries were not originally created with longevity in mind. Comic books were a throw away media back through to the 70’s and ideas didn’t have to be good ones as long as they got that months issue out. If you read early Batman comic books, you would not be gasping in awe at how depraved the Joker was, you would be scratching your head as to why he used the word “boner” so much (and also why Batman, Robin and Superman like to sit on enormous guns but I digress…)
DAZ0273 said: I think the idea of a *worst* Rogues gallery is probably not valid. Any Rogues Gallery can be excellent if handled well. I think a good example is probably Geoff Johns and what he did for The Flash, which had utter dregs like Mirror Master and Captain Boomerang. Black Manta has also been redeemed somewhat over the years (Aquaman was pretty great already under Peter David but most people didn’t read that) from the lows of his Super Friends days. I thought he was pretty nifty in the Aqua-movie. Take Batman’s Rogues gallery – many people consider Batman to have the finest Rogues Gallery but I think what has really happened is that because Batman can't move planets or travel through time, his villains tend to have to do less to be considered worthwhile foes. It also helps that more than most they are enshrined in public knowledge in a way most other villains aren’t. However, if you created The Penguin, The Riddler and yes even The Joker today, I suspect they would be considered fairly lame. I suppose we should remember that a lot of our Rogues Galleries were not originally created with longevity in mind. Comic books were a throw away media back through to the 70’s and ideas didn’t have to be good ones as long as they got that months issue out. If you read early Batman comic books, you would not be gasping in awe at how depraved the Joker was, you would be scratching your head as to why he used the word “boner” so much (and also why Batman, Robin and Superman like to sit on enormous guns but I digress…)
I actually wrote an article on this topic once, if anyone wants to check it out:
https://gotstratosphere.com/2018/05/26/stew-for-five-best-rogues-galleries-in-comics/
Now who has the WORST rogues gallery is hard. Wonder Woman would be up there, maybe. Does Martian Manhunter even have rogues? Aquaman.
In Marvel, I might think Iron Man, yeah. And Hulk, possibly.
NotBAMF said: I actually wrote an article on this topic once, if anyone wants to check it out:https://gotstratosphere.com/2018/05/26/stew-for-five-best-rogues-galleries-in-comics/Now who has the WORST rogues gallery is hard. Wonder Woman would be up there, maybe. Does Martian Manhunter even have rogues? Aquaman. In Marvel, I might think Iron Man, yeah. And Hulk, possibly.
DAZ0273 said: Next thing you know - they are on the team!
Dormammu said: DAZ0273 said: Next thing you know - they are on the team! I like that. It adds a layer of complexity. One of the (few) things that the X-movies get right is the history between Charles and Erik. They were friends, allies even. They want the same thing. In the comics, the fact that Magneto has been headmaster of Xavier's school makes it that much more personal when the X-Men find themselves at odds with him, because now it's not a such a black and white fight. It creates conflict within the X-Men when some of them start to think maybe Magneto's way is better. As readers we can relate to that, as our real world is filled with situations where we may want the same thing but disagree (with our own friends and even family!) on how to achieve what we want.