500 CP is not a bad deal

bbigler
bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
in MPQ General Discussion
I've heard over and over that the Heroes for Hire deal to buy a single 5* cover for 500 CP is a bad deal: "You can get 20 Latest pulls for the same price". "You'll probably get a cover for that character anyway just pulling instead". But consider this, if the only thing that will truly advance your roster are 5* covers and you only want 1 of the 5*s in Latest, then pulling 20 tokens to get one specific 5* is almost the same thing as spending 500 CP for a cover. But there are some differences......

There's no gaurantee that you will get that 5* you want in 20 pulls. The odds say that you should, being 20 x 5%, but we know it's not gauranteed. Yes, you can get some 4* champ rewards, which may give you 2 more pulls, being a total of 22 x 5%. But, HFH let's you cherry pick the color you need for that character, whereas a random chance in 22 pulls will not. Since the Latest 5*s rotate in HFH frequently, you'll have many opportunities to buy the cover(s) you need to finish them. 

This applies to those who have a well established 4* tier and need just a few more covers of that top tier 5* to improve their game. Obviously, this applies to anyone chasing Kitty, but there will surely be more top tier 5*s to come. If I had 500 CP, I would buy.

This also applies to top tier Classic 5*s that you're close to completing. 250 CP for one of their covers is a steal!  My point of all this is that in a game where people hoard from one top tier 5* to the next, those HFH deals are a good option. I could go into pull rates and probabilities, but I'm trying to avoid a long post. 
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Comments

  • randomhero1090
    randomhero1090 Posts: 396 Mover and Shaker
    This is kinda where I struggle......

    I don't know why it's so expensive to BUY a cover for a 5*.  60, 120, 720???  Why isn't it 240 or even 360?

    Ok, first I still gotta get 1 of each cover to being with.  It would still cost me 2400/3600 CP to buy all the needed covers.  IF I DO THAT, I am giving up about ~80/144 4* covers to do so.  That's quite a commitment.

    I gotta save about 2.5 months of CP playing both PVE and PVP to the fullest to get that much CP.  That's a long time IMHO, and a lot of work to get 1 character fully covered.

    The 500 CP "deal" isn't a deal IMHO.  250 CP, yes, that number would be a deal to me.

    Maybe I am way off here, but as I look forward and plan for the 5* tier, it just seems crazy hard to get there.
  • MushroomGenius808
    MushroomGenius808 Posts: 138 Tile Toppler
    As I sit here with my 1/5/5 Kitty and that yellow HFH offer staring me in the face, I don't think it's a good deal.  While the yellow cover has been truly elusive to me, I have built a saved covered cache off of all of the non-yellow pulls I've made.  That cache stands at 7 saved, enough for me to create 2 yellows if I so choose.  However, I'll wait and continue to pull LL via token and CP until she's moved into Classics.  If by that time I don't have my 2 yellows, I'll convert.

    500cp is an awful price to pay.

    I don't horde, I lack the willpower. I pull when I have enough resources and have been fortunate enough to cover and champ:  BeardCap (456), JJ (456), Loki (456), Okoye (454), Daredevil (452), Thor (451), and Ock (451).  My Kitty stands at 11 covers with 7 saved and Cable sits at 11 covers with 1 saved.  I didn't cover Wasp (5/2/1), no biggie, as I spent in the Cable store while it was available and missed pulling more LL at that time.  I think I only managed 2 Cable out of there.
  • AardvarkPepper
    AardvarkPepper Posts: 239 Tile Toppler
    bbigler said:

    This also applies to top tier Classic 5*s that you're close to completing. 250 CP for one of their covers is a steal!  My point of all this is that in a game where people hoard from one top tier 5* to the next, those HFH deals are a good option. I could go into pull rates and probabilities, but I'm trying to avoid a long post. 
    250 CP for a 5*?

    Dormammu said:
    Spending CP to buy covers, no matter what rarity they are (3-star, 4-star, 5-star), is never optimal... until it's the cover you desperately want and need RIGHT NOW. At that point, the CP cost is absolutely optimal.
    Depends on how you define "need".  I NEED the latest iphone.  I NEED those shoes.  Etc.

    "Need" is a dangerous word.  Marketers love it.  You NEED this.  (you don't need it!)

    The way I figure it, if a player's going to immediately gain from real-time savings or higher tier rewards, then it's simply a matter of trading in-game resources for real time (which is realistically a worthwhile tradeoff) or other in-game resources over a period of time that the player wouldn't be able to access if they had waited for that cover otherwise (which is a calculated tradeoff).

    But yeah I would really advise against a vague definition of "need".  That's what gets players to doing things they shouldn't, and MPQ in particularly is a long term grindy game.

    bbigler said:
    My point of all this is that in a game where people hoard from one top tier 5* to the next, those HFH deals are a good option. I could go into pull rates and probabilities, but I'm trying to avoid a long post. 
    A player also earns champion rewards off 4*s.

    Also it's true that if a player *does* need to progress their 5*s to make "real progress" as mentioned in the OP, sure, CP buys are a consideration.

    But again, the way I figure it, it's best a *considered* situation.  It's not "well I feel I've come as far as I can with 4*s" but "I have this specific 5* at twelve covers and I can buy the thirteenth cover in the store and doing so will let me field a specific team of synergistic 5*s that will cut my PvE and PvP times, and though I'm hurting my long term development a bit, the real time savings is worth it // or I'll use this specific synergistic 5* team to play at PvE SCL 8-9 to earn better individual rewards and higher points so I can be in a higher ranking alliance that will also earn commensurate rewards".

    As to "trying to avoid a long post" - well the way I think on it, there are two sorts of discussions.  The sort in which no details are discussed, and everyone assumes everyone else knows what they mean (which they may!  or may not) and really nobody's going to change their opinions.  Or the sort in which loads of details are discussed and most people don't want to follow along (bless their hearts, there's only so many hours in a day after all) but for those that do, there may be valuable points for consideration that one hadn't thought of before.

    ==

    and @bbigler:  Sure, I would agree under certain circumstances CP buys for specific covers are "worth it".  But I'll point out (and would you disagree) that your cracking your Latest Legendary hoard was with the stated goal of advancing your 4*s, and further that your particular situation involves fully covering 5* Kitty in particular, so after having pulled a number of covers for her, and spending a certain amount of money and saving certain resources, you're in a position to potentially make the decision.  That is in short - I don't think you would have used your CP for 5* covers *before* establishing what you needed after opening a hoard of Latest Legend tokens, and I think your saved resources put you in a position where you have an option to buy, as opposed to other players that might not have the same resources.

    @randomhero1090:  Yeah it is a long road to 5* land, that's how it goes.  The "fast" way as far as I know is to save up a load of Latest Legend tokens (I'd say 500, but others say less depending on their preference for risk) and a load of CP (as backup in case you need to buy latest legend tokens and/or for store sales that may feature a particular 5*).  Then you open all the tokens, and since LL tokens feature one of the three latest 5*,  you end up probably-maybe covering three 5*s (hopefully synergistic, and hopefully you made sure the featured 5*s were synergistic before you started opening tokens).  But that still takes a long time even if you have the infrastructure to push gathering LL tokens.

    Normally you don't buy individual covers with CP, even if they're a featured special on the store.  Unless you're super money.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    broll said:
    If you absolutely need a cover for whatever 5* you want to chase or you will explode, then take it, but this game has always favored the patient over the impulsive.
    I can see 2 sides of this: if you never buy the 500 CP deal and always pull Latest, you're maximizing your resources as a whole.  But, if you buy that 1 cover which lets you champ a top tier 5*, which allows you to enter a higher level of play and rewards, then you'll end up with more after you "break even" with the improved rewards making up for the lost 4* covers.  So, it's good to build the farm, but it's also good to up your game too.  I know 500 CP sounds like a very painful price to pay, but it's more painful to open 20 Latest and not get the one cover you need.  Perhaps my perspective is skewed given my experience getting Kitty covers though.  I recently got a yellow Kitty cover, but it had been 117 pulls since my last Kitty cover.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    bbigler said:
    broll said:
    If you absolutely need a cover for whatever 5* you want to chase or you will explode, then take it, but this game has always favored the patient over the impulsive.
    I can see 2 sides of this: if you never buy the 500 CP deal and always pull Latest, you're maximizing your resources as a whole.  But, if you buy that 1 cover which lets you champ a top tier 5*, which allows you to enter a higher level of play and rewards, then you'll end up with more after you "break even" with the improved rewards making up for the lost 4* covers.  So, it's good to build the farm, but it's also good to up your game too.  I know 500 CP sounds like a very painful price to pay, but it's more painful to open 20 Latest and not get the one cover you need.  Perhaps my perspective is skewed given my experience getting Kitty covers though.  I recently got a yellow Kitty cover, but it had been 117 pulls since my last Kitty cover.
    I've heard this argument but I don't generally buy it.  PvE progression  is about persistence and not hard.  PvE Placement is about speed and team only makes a huge different in where it effects speed which very limited characters help with that.  PvP progression with wins is about persistence, PvP points / placement is the only place where that argument holds up that much IMO and even then battlechats are far more effective at doing that even if you have a sub-par team.

    Sadly I don't think this game does a good job at rewarding roster achievements with progression/placement outside of the SCL jumps.  Other than that it rewards knowing the systems and knowing how to game those systems for the best outcome.
  • Pr0spect0r
    Pr0spect0r Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    My 3/4/0 Kitty was not entertained by the deal
  • firethorne
    firethorne Posts: 1,505 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well, you're comparing a bad deal to a bad deal.  Yes, there's no guarantee that you will get that 5* you want in 20 pulls.  But, that isn't a good thing either.  Precisely why MPQ hasn't gotten any in app purchases from me for a long long time.
  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    Now do one about how 3:1 cover swaps are not a bad deal.
    If both were an option, I'd rather have a lvl 450 champ with 500 cp than a 453 champ with 0 cp. Its basically the same dilemma. Do I want a guaranteed champ 5* now, or maybe somewhere in the distant future. The difference is either 3 5* champ rewards, or 500 cp worth of 4* champ rewards. Comparatively the swap is a way better deal.

  • abenness
    abenness Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    edited January 2019
    bbigler said:
    This also applies to top tier Classic 5*s that you're close to completing. 250 CP for one of their covers is a steal!  My point of all this is that in a game where people hoard from one top tier 5* to the next, those HFH deals are a good option. I could go into pull rates and probabilities, but I'm trying to avoid a long post. 
    I bought a Black Bolt black cover for 250 CP in his last store. Had fun with him all that week and every time I use him since. He is still a low level 5* at 1/1/1, but usable for me in the trash nodes.  Without that cover, he would only have a niche yellow power and the expensive green.

    I would consider a Jessica Jones blue for 250 CP a reasonable purchase for a 3* roster, just to give them something to mix it up in pvp or tile mover pve nodes. Single Okoye black prob not worth it.

    My Kitty is 3/2/5, but I have no 4* or 5* champs (but virtually all 4’s rostered). I will continue pulling everything until she rotates out. After that, I would absolutely buy a purple for 250 CP. And maybe even another yellow and purple after that, to finish her off (if I don’t get a random or bonus cover in the meantime - hey I can dream). Every purple from here on makes her better in pve, and she is already great.

    The other factor here is that as a newer player, I don’t get 4* champ rewards as an immediate boost to keep the pulling going. Saving any extra covers is *awesome*, but thinking of how much iso I will need through this process is *shudder*. But hey, this will give me steady goals, I enjoy playing, and should get a mini-burst of rewards each time I champ one (3 saved covers for Ghost and Vulture so far, Vulture just waiting on 250k iso).
  • abenness
    abenness Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    Pr0spect0r said:
    My 3/4/0 Kitty was not entertained by the deal

    To be very clear, 500 CP (or 720 CP) is too much for me. But when a future “classic” H4H is a Red for 250 CP, it would very much be a mistake to pass on that if you are in the same position.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    The probability of getting a specific character from LT is 1/7 x 1/3 =1/21 
    It turns out out to be 21*25= 525CP +50,000 iso-8. It's a good deal to get a guaranted cover of a colour that you know. However, people who want to play optimally would find this a bad deal. It's due to the 20 LT that you could have pulled to get the 5* and other covers instead. It is not a guaranteed however. 

    It's not difficult to understand that rare things that are guaranteed are expensive. You want the devs to allow players to purchase a specific colour of a specific character? Be prepared to spend at least 250cp.
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    Well, it looks like everyone here disagrees with me, so I'll just accept that and not argue about it. Personally, I would do it because completing a top tier 5* would make a HUGE difference to me. My boosted Kitty is currently destroying PVE and allowing me to rank top 5. My Kitty is now 2/3/3 after 320 pulls. That's a 2.5% pull rate instead of 5%, so that's why I'm tired of the gamble and would rather spend the same amount of CP for a gauranteed cover. 
  • Drlex
    Drlex Posts: 109 Tile Toppler
    If it is a good deal for you then go for it. I personally wouldn't while they are still in latest. Once they went to classics I would only consider it with conditions. It was the 13th usable cover. They don't have a feeder reasonable close to that cover, and they were a 5* that I would use on occasion. I use a good helping of my 5*s for simulator or events that aren't timed. 

    For 250 CP I would finish off anyone of the 5*s in classics or the one latest about to leave. Other than that I am going to wait for a store with the ones I want. I have DD sitting at 2/5/5 with 3 saved and I can't bring myself to swap them in and lose out on the levels.
  • Vins2
    Vins2 Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    The only time it'd be worth it, is if it's a good skill.  If you're at 10-12 covers already, you can raise that character to a decent enough level.  Nothing happens at 450, just the champ rewards.  Going from 4 Court Deaths to 5 is a big deal.   Going from 12 to 13 covers, with that last one being Come and Get me, is not.  Same with Thor's green, or Okoye's black or Bolt's black. 
  • Anon
    Anon Posts: 1,455 Chairperson of the Boards
    I envy that you guys can even save up 500 CP. Once I get to 25 CP I HAVE to spend it. I'm far too indulgent.
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Anon said:
    I envy that you guys can even save up 500 CP. Once I get to 25 CP I HAVE to spend it. I'm far too indulgent.

    The bigger the pile, the easier it is to keep adding to it. I am up past 6K CP at the moment, but I know that when I start using them I won't be able to stop...
  • bbigler
    bbigler Posts: 2,111 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    If I went back in time and purposely saved CP for Kitty HFH deals and spent the rest on Latest, this is what I would have now (assuming I get the same bad 2.5% pull rate for Kitty):

    Right now my Kitty is 2/3/3 using 120 LT and 5000 CP
    But if I saved 2000 CP for the 4 HFH deals since she's arrived, then:

    I would have opened 120 LT + 3000 CP (+120 Pulls) = 240 Pulls x 2.5% = 6 covers (my first 6 covers were 1/2/3)
    Add 4 more HFH covers (2/1/1) and I would have 10 covers now instead of 8, making Kitty 3/3/4
    That's my point: I would have a better covered Kitty if I saved for the HFH deals.
    So, this is a way to combat bad luck and ensure you cover the most desirable 5*. 

    I don't need more 4* covers.  I have 4* covers coming out of my ears.  I currently have 5 that could be champed, all with saved covers. 

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