Feeders - timeline for payouts

bluewolf
bluewolf Posts: 5,822 Chairperson of the Boards
in MPQ General Discussion
As someone who entered the 5 tier with Spidey, I have a 13 champed 5's.  I have all the meta characters champed (although Bolt hovers near the meta orbit, he only has 5 covers), but of course want to finish as many 5's as I can for PVE or just fun.  My lifetime 5 rate is basically 12.5% after about 2400 pulls from the various 5* stores.  Anyway, blah blah blah what's my point?

I have 4 5's currently at 12 covers that have feeders:  BP, BW, SL, Wasp.  None are especially exciting, but I do have BP bonused as I want to run Panthos at some point.  So, let's say I just let them sit until their feeders push out the cover I need.  How long will that take?  (Assuming I don't bonus their feeders.)  I should also note that I am a low level spender with VIP, and buying some of the bundles and occasional HP bonus offers.

My estimate of my Latest pulls is about 100/28 days right now.  (A low 5 rate has made my 4's get pretty big across my roster, and I get a lot of good champ rewards with 62 of them at level 300+).  That comes out to about 85 4's per 28 days, so currently 1.15 covers per current 4.  I guesstimate 12 4's from Heroics per month.  PVE might give you 2-3 (on average) covers per year per character, PVP is about 4-6 a year. This assumes good placement (not the top 5 players).  So in a year you might get as much as 25 covers on average per 4 if you are at my level. (Playing hard with an advanced 4* roster.)  (I am ignoring increased dilution for this thought exercise).

Again, these 4 characters need JUST ONE COVER to be finished.

BP needs a black cover right now to be finished.  My 4BP is 304, so needs 36 covers or about 1 1/2 years to push out that color.

BW needs a red or purple.  4BW is 288, at 300 gives a red, so 12 covers needed.  About 6 months.

SL needs a green.  Drax is 306, so he needs 14 covers to get to 320, so about 6 months.  (He will be a little faster since 3Rocket gives his covers).

Wasp needs a blue.  Antman is level 319, so needs 21 covers to get to 340.  About a year.  (Squirrel Girl feeds him).

I also have OML and Goblin at 10 covers each.

OML needs a black and 2 reds; XFW is 318.  He needs 42 covers to finish OML.  He should be somewhere around 1/12 years, though, since he has 2 feeders.

Goblin needs all 3 colors; Sandman is 325, so needs 35 covers to get to 360.  Also around a year and a half.

Now, whether I will be interested in playing to the point of finishing these characters, who knows.  But it's certainly not a quick process, and for more average players, it would take quite a long time if it was even possible.  I do sometimes make some Classic pulls, but dilution mostly keeps me away.  I think the most value there is adding levels to my 4's more cheaply.

I'm curious how others feel about the feeder process and if they approach things differently.
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Comments

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,456 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    I wish it was more realistic to feed your way to 5* covers. The only character I have nearing even the second feeder cover is Rogue (292), who is not a feeder for anyone (I wasn't prepping for the eventual Gambit everyone was expecting, i just happened to RNG into lots of Rogues - I don't even really use her much). 

    I'm in that dilemma with:
    · Gho5t Rider: 7/3/3, and my Ghost 4ider needs 35 covers to finish him up.
    · Lumbercap is 1/4/4, my Bucky is 5/5/3 lvl 209 with 4 saved.
    · Jessica Jones is 4/2/2, Chavez is lvl 285
    · 5* Lord is 5/1/3, Drax is 1/4/7 and would need covers to get champed let alone the 90 more it takes to go around the tree twice
    ·  Hawkeye is feedable at 1/5/3, but Kate Bishop is 3/9/4
    · Okoye is 5/2/1, Shuri is 278 - I could feed her to 12 covers eventually
    · OML is 3/0/3 but I have a yellow coming before too long daily rewards which would make him feedable. XFW is 3/5/7 (unchamped)
    · Loki is 3/4/1, MEH is lvl 283 so I could only get him to 4/5/3

    The rest are too far down to even think about. I was expecting when the odds on 4*s went flat that the tier was going to slow down/stop, and 5* releases were going to pick up, and that the missing element of the new system was multi-feeding the 5*s. So far we haven't seen that, but some way to target 5*s more directly would really be nice for those of us that just want to be able to use characters we like.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    I think the feeder process is great.  Feeders + BH + (only sometimes) BH of 4* feeders = win.

    There has only been a single feeder I've gotten more than one for when it released and that was the most recent one.  However I've used feeders to finish off my Black Bolt.  I'm currently working on OG cap. 

    You can clearly tell who I BH'd for a long time for feeder covers to finish / help 5*s just by looking at my character levels:
    • Medusa - 349
    • Peggy Carter - 349
    • Rouge - 332 (briefly a feeder during the Gambit meta when I hadn't gotten him yet and I assumed she would feed him)
    • Vulture - 332
    • Rocket & Groot - 323
    • Luke Cage - 319
    • Captain Marvel - 318
    • Nico Minoru - 317
    • Gamora - 317
    • Nightcrawler -316
    Right now since I pretty much have all of the 5*s most useful in the current meta or in my personal play meta I'm going using BH's primarily based on  a few things:
    • Which 5* feeders are also useful 4*s (Hence why Peggy is currently a BH)
    • Which 5* feeders have their own 4* feeders (Hence why I have Hawkguy as my 3* BH and will make Kate Bishop replace Peggy once she hits 360 or when OG Cap is champed)
    • Which 5* feeders have their own 4* feeders who also have their own 3* feeders (again hence Hawkguy)
    While I was actively chasing Black Bolt I had both Medusa & KK BHed for ~6 months.  I think I'm on my 3rd or 4th restart of KK from all of that, but it paid off in a big way.  Chaining these up is super powerful for the ones that have them.  Even if the 5* you get isn't great almost every other 5* champ level is a free LT (or 25 CP) which is more chances to get 5*s. 

    I think the 5* feeders is a great systems and one of the few hit it out of the park things added in the last 1.5 years or so.  It's annoying that they don't have a 5* feeder for all of them and that new characters aren't getting feeders out of the gate right now, but I'll take what I can get.
  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,456 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited January 2019
    I think that's great for those of us (you?) who are positioned with feedable 5*s, but I'm looking at somebody moving into 4* play, and eventually 5* play, and wondering how they go about getting a meaningful shot at Black Bolt. Are they supposed to set Medusa and Kamala Khan as their bonus heroes for 2-3 years? Hoard for Family Favorites (or similar) and hope they have enough when it shows up? I guess so, but man, that's a big ask in my opinion. At least Medusa is a valuable 4*, whereas if I set Ghost Rider as my 4* to get him those 35 levels he needs, he'll be way out in front of all my other characters in the tier just being kind of...middling.


  • Straycat
    Straycat Posts: 963 Critical Contributor
    Feeders have helped, sure, but I am not in love with the system. I like that they give out 6 covers instead of 3, but since its all tied to one character the most I've gotten 2. At best the feeders can be used for that last 1-2 covers, which means you probably already that character usable. But if you're stuck at 5/1/5? Thats 60 covers minimum to help you. At worst they give covers you don't need.

    My best cases: Antman is 299, Wa5p is 4/3/5. Gamora is 317, Thanos is 5/4/3. 1 and 3 more covers and I get  new champs.
    My most frustrating: Shuri is 288, Okoye is 2/5/4. I'm 32 covers away from 2/5/5, 52 covers away from a new champ. Kate Bishop is 290, Hawkeye 3/5/3. 10 covers from a useless blue, 50 covers from champ. At least with Okoye after 32 covers I would be 5/3 saved covers, so I could swap and still have some champ rewards.
  • GrimSkald
    GrimSkald Posts: 2,644 Chairperson of the Boards

    I devote my 4* bonus hero to feeders.  Well, I have for at least eight or nine months now.  With BH, it does move surprisingly quickly - I've finished off Star Lord by getting Drax to 320, I pushed Peggy for a while and now she's two covers away from finishing FA Cap, and had Sandman and War Machine BHed for a while to get more covers for Goblin and IM46.  I switched to Spider-Man (IW) when I got War Machine up to 320 earlier this week.

    Here's what I've gotten in covers for the above:

    Drax: 9

    Peggy: 26 (for a long time)

    Sandman: 6

    War Machine: 7

    Spider-Man (IW): 5

  • Rhadamanthus23
    Rhadamanthus23 Posts: 48 Just Dropped In
    Straycat said:
    Feeders have helped, sure, but I am not in love with the system. I like that they give out 6 covers instead of 3, but since its all tied to one character the most I've gotten 2. At best the feeders can be used for that last 1-2 covers, which means you probably already that character usable. But if you're stuck at 5/1/5? Thats 60 covers minimum to help you. At worst they give covers you don't need.


    So... are we basically saying  we have to start farming 4*s?
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    They really need to make the rest of them feeders already. This is just mind boggling why this isn’t done yet.  This is where i stand. 

    Okoye: LVL 500 <-Shuri 333
    Thor: lvl 488 <- Valkyrie 317
    Jessica: lvl 487 <- America Chavez 346
    Phoenix: lvl 484<-Jubilee 289
    Thanos lvl 480<- Gamor 370&106 (220)
    OML:  lvl 476<- XF 353
    Daredevil: lvl 473<- King Pin 351
    Black Panthe: lvl 471 <- BP 305
    Loki: Lvl 467<- Meh 329
    Black Bolt: lvl 465<-Medusa 370&293
    Hawkeye: Lvl 461 <- Kate 342
    Cap America Hobo: lvl 460<- Bucky 338
    Spider-Man:  lvl 460 <- Vulture 358
    Cap America FA: lvl 456<- Peggy 370&111 (212)
    Almighty Wasp:  lvl 456 <- Ant Man 346
    Black Widow lvl 455 <- 309
    Starlord lvl 454 <- Drax 338
    Goblin lvl 453 <- Sand Man 360
    BSSM lvl 452 <- Iron Spider 309
    Im 46 lvl 435 (525) with 4 saved covers <- War machine 332
    Doc Ock lvl 390 (3/3/3)<- Carnage 338
    Ghost Rider lvl 375 (422) <- GR 349



  • Punter1
    Punter1 Posts: 729 Critical Contributor

    with 78x 4s and 30x 5s they really need to get going on 2nd feeders for all 5s. 

  • ThaRoadWarrior
    ThaRoadWarrior Posts: 9,456 Chairperson of the Boards
    or even 1st feeders on all 5s...
  • Punter1
    Punter1 Posts: 729 Critical Contributor
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    or even 1st feeders on all 5s...


    Well yes - but I'm being optimistic and Rockett already said that. 

    I mean the Devs are very good at recognizing and acting on suggestions provided in these forums...

  • CT1888
    CT1888 Posts: 1,201 Chairperson of the Boards
    Rhadamanthus23 said:
    Straycat said:
    Feeders have helped, sure, but I am not in love with the system. I like that they give out 6 covers instead of 3, but since its all tied to one character the most I've gotten 2. At best the feeders can be used for that last 1-2 covers, which means you probably already that character usable. But if you're stuck at 5/1/5? Thats 60 covers minimum to help you. At worst they give covers you don't need.


    So... are we basically saying  we have to start farming 4*s?
    Well, I have a max champed 4* Carol and my dupe will be champed soon, with the hope of her being the feeder for the inevitable 5* feeder. 

    So yes. 

    Unless it's Fury, in which case I'll be sad. 
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
    Only feeder I neded for a long time was Jessica Jones. And when they finally gave her one they messed it up. I need another 19 America Chavez covers before I can champ her when I'd have had her champed already had they got the cover colours in the right order to begin with =/

    Otherwise, I've got Archangel, Kitty Pride and Silver Surfer with 1 cover to go. My Beard Cap is going to be a pain to champ. Two covers to go, meaning I'll need 34 Winter Soldier covers. It only gets worse from there.

    I wish there was a way to get Classic Legendary tokens.
  • Daredevil217
    Daredevil217 Posts: 3,966 Chairperson of the Boards
    I would like to set my BH to ME Hulk (need 5 more to max Loki) or Ghost Rider (need 9 more to max RR GR) or to get a beefier Grocket (currently 304)...

    But I use my bonus heros to get new characters to champ status instead. Going to need them now more than ever, now that I’ll likely be mostly hoarding until summer (or whenever all 3 Latests leave). 
  • abenness
    abenness Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    GrimSkald said:
    Tony_Foot said:
    People have become far too obsessed with a feeder system that helps such a small number of players.

    It was good when it had chance to give you a new single 5* cover for essentials when they did that a couple of times but other than that who does it help. A small portion of the game at the top end who have already been in the 5* tier for years. They do nothing for me as a player in for just over a year.

    It's a feature that helps the top except for a few rare occasions.

    Yet this forum bangs on and on about 4* dilution, so they think a good idea is 5* feeder, fed from already diluted 4* pulls. Seems backwards to me.

    What they should be focused on is 3* to 4* feeders. Help the bulk of the game get 4* covered, lots are moving towards farming 3* and building bigger 4* for then to develop a 5* feeder system. They keep doing half a job in each tier then giving up. Start from the bottom and fix feeders tier by tier. Everyone wins.

    Or even easier is forget 5* feeders and actually give a better % of BH when pulling 5*. Twice from two hoard breaks of 320+ pulls I've not had a single 5* BH drop. Increasing that percentage to a more realistic level would have saved all this half arsed faffing about with feeders. It seems like a lot of work for something that could have been fixed far easier.
    Honestly, and this should probably get it's own topic, they should add another "feeding 4*" to each 3*.  So each 3* will feed two different 4*s (and give 3 covers of each) rather than just one and 3.  It's one of the better ways to help with dillution.  The biggest issue I see with this is that if they handle them like the 5*s (grandfather in rewards a person would have already gotten,) it will give a huge influx of covers into the game and that's probably not good for it.  The solution to that would probably be a staged roll out (which would have the added benefit of adding anticipation,) or else just not grandfather rewards (which will generate some ill will.)
    As someone who doesn’t yet have a single champed 4, but has been playing hard for half a year, it does seem a bit unfair to hear of people getting multiple 5* covers from a “new” feeder if they have already received the LL tokens from those levels previously. It would be arguably fairer to say that with the new feeder, you could “convert” some of your existing LL tokens for the 5* covers, giving the certainty of the specific 5* cover and colour, but without the double reward.

    I would also be happy to see alternate red 4*, eg Kamala Khan could feed Medusa the first time through, but then alternate to a different 4* the next time.

    While we are at it, how about using a “prestige” system where you could cash out the progress of a max-champ toon, dropping them back to min-champ, but at least leaving them champed, re-speccable, and ready to grow champ levels and feed again. That would be less friction than the sell and re-roster mechanism (and would make the 2* farm much easier)

  • GreenArmadillo
    GreenArmadillo Posts: 21 Just Dropped In
    ThaRoadWarrior said:
    I'm looking at somebody moving into 4* play, and eventually 5* play, and wondering how they go about getting a meaningful shot at Black Bolt. Are they supposed to set Medusa and Kamala Khan as their bonus heroes for 2-3 years? Hoard for Family Favorites (or similar) and hope they have enough when it shows up? I guess so, but man, that's a big ask in my opinion.
    I have effectively skipped from 3 to 5 because of how broken the current system is. TLDR for the following story is that you will hoard enough pulls for to cover some five stars from either LL or a new release 5 star token long before you have a usable four star.


    I started the game in April and was running 3 star Strange+Thanos+IF (or good champed 3 star boosted in the third slot) within my second month.  Unless you want to be the guy who is constantly asking which four star cover to save from the vine, you can't open any LL etc until you grind or buy the HP to roster most or all four stars. (You get a steady stream of mostly random 4 stars from PVE progression and nonlegendary tokens, which you should generally open for the covers for the 3 stars you are actually using.)

    After spending $30ish monthly and grinding as many progression nodes as I could stand with the same three dudes every day for 7 months I still had 20 4 stars left to roster with 2-3 more coming out to move the finish line back every month.

    During this entire time my 4 star BH (Vulture) never fired once because I wasn't opening the applicable tokens.  Excluding the dinosaur, I didn't have a single 4 star with enough covers to level to where my 3 stars are, and was months if not a year away. (I do not have the real world time to grind out 40 PVP wins every 3 days, and can't pursue 4 star placement rewards because I don't have 5 star champs.)

    But I had enough LL and CP saved for 200+ pulls on Cable and Kitty. By the time I was done I had to vendor 8 single cover four stars.  I champed Vulture, and bought the Carnage bundle so he is my new BH for another two covers.  I didn't get many Kitty covers (2/1/1) but Kitty and Carnage are still better than my 3 star teams for hard content, while Cable (12 covers) and Vulture are good for easier stuff.

    Also worth noting that I am now routinely finishing PVE progression for events and, because I have the four most recent 5 stars, I am also often able to get 5 star node rewards.  So going to 5 stars early has absolutely paid off.  

    The biggest thing they need to do to make 4 stars attainable again is add more pulls that can proc a 4 star BH.  I'd suggest a 3/4 version of the 2/3 Elite token in in SCL 7+ rewards.  Inflation has occurred, 5 stars are no longer unicorn tier, and cover acquisition needs to keep pace.


  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    abenness said:
    GrimSkald said:
    Tony_Foot said:
    People have become far too obsessed with a feeder system that helps such a small number of players.

    It was good when it had chance to give you a new single 5* cover for essentials when they did that a couple of times but other than that who does it help. A small portion of the game at the top end who have already been in the 5* tier for years. They do nothing for me as a player in for just over a year.

    It's a feature that helps the top except for a few rare occasions.

    Yet this forum bangs on and on about 4* dilution, so they think a good idea is 5* feeder, fed from already diluted 4* pulls. Seems backwards to me.

    What they should be focused on is 3* to 4* feeders. Help the bulk of the game get 4* covered, lots are moving towards farming 3* and building bigger 4* for then to develop a 5* feeder system. They keep doing half a job in each tier then giving up. Start from the bottom and fix feeders tier by tier. Everyone wins.

    Or even easier is forget 5* feeders and actually give a better % of BH when pulling 5*. Twice from two hoard breaks of 320+ pulls I've not had a single 5* BH drop. Increasing that percentage to a more realistic level would have saved all this half arsed faffing about with feeders. It seems like a lot of work for something that could have been fixed far easier.
    Honestly, and this should probably get it's own topic, they should add another "feeding 4*" to each 3*.  So each 3* will feed two different 4*s (and give 3 covers of each) rather than just one and 3.  It's one of the better ways to help with dillution.  The biggest issue I see with this is that if they handle them like the 5*s (grandfather in rewards a person would have already gotten,) it will give a huge influx of covers into the game and that's probably not good for it.  The solution to that would probably be a staged roll out (which would have the added benefit of adding anticipation,) or else just not grandfather rewards (which will generate some ill will.)
    As someone who doesn’t yet have a single champed 4, but has been playing hard for half a year, it does seem a bit unfair to hear of people getting multiple 5* covers from a “new” feeder if they have already received the LL tokens from those levels previously. It would be arguably fairer to say that with the new feeder, you could “convert” some of your existing LL tokens for the 5* covers, giving the certainty of the specific 5* cover and colour, but without the double reward.

    I would also be happy to see alternate red 4*, eg Kamala Khan could feed Medusa the first time through, but then alternate to a different 4* the next time.

    While we are at it, how about using a “prestige” system where you could cash out the progress of a max-champ toon, dropping them back to min-champ, but at least leaving them champed, re-speccable, and ready to grow champ levels and feed again. That would be less friction than the sell and re-roster mechanism (and would make the 2* farm much easier)

    Sorry I have to disagree with you.  When a 3* is released, they already have a 4* as a feeder.  They release all of these 4* now and don’t make them have feeders.  So this is a D3/Demi issue of not putting 5* in the champ rewards for any 4* they release.  I get that you are about 200 days in, but he people that are getting these covers are people that have been playing a long time (I am 1677 today) or have invested a lot of money into the game to speed up their progression.  
  • abenness
    abenness Posts: 228 Tile Toppler
    Can you be more specific about what you are disagreeing with? I’m not trying to argue, rather just ruminating on game design :)

    If you had say Carnage at 340 when they announce him as the new feeder for Ock, I thought you had already received 4 LL tokens along the way. If you were given the choice to buy 2*Black, 1*Green, 1*Blue covers for Ock at the cost of 4 LL or 100CP, doesn’t that still seem like a great deal, and affordable? Haha certainly better value than a Thor costume or Spider-Ham H4H.

    Otherwise, the only way to make it absolutely “fair” for both new and old players would be that only new 4* characters can be named as feeders for 5*. That way everyone starts at 0 covers, and earns them through play or pay as in the rest of the game.

    Maybe this is distorted just because it is Carnage, who has been around the meta for a while, and I expect that many long-termers or big-spenders have him at a reasonably high level, so it is a welcome boost for them to get multiple Ock covers as a “reward” for their loyalty.

    Would there be outrage or at least moaning if eg Flaptain was announced as a feeder for a new 5* later this year? Because he is generally ill-regarded and would only have been collected incidentally.

    Maybe it isn’t an issue when a newer 4* like Valkyrie or Shuri is the feeder for the newer 5*. But they would have to consider the differences between (say) Teen Jean vs Emma as a feeder for Kitty. I expect the former would release a flood of Kitty covers, which would frustrate me because she is what I have broken my hoard for (6 months plus of targeted effort), the latter would not.


    So here is the question:
    Do people want feeders for 5* just so they can target that feeder and know they will cover the 5 through guaranteed rewards?
    Or do people want feeders because there is a chance they will already have the 4* at a high level, so they are essentially being gifted the 5* covers as a double-dip.
  • HoundofShadow
    HoundofShadow Posts: 8,004 Chairperson of the Boards
    If we were to stick with the original intent, 4-stars champion rewards were updated to replace 6 LTs with 6 specific 5-star covers. Double dipping was a bonus. To answer your question, we need to separate the playerbase into veteran players and non-veteran players. 

    The answers to your questions are:

    1) The veterans want to double dip on the rewards.

    2) The veterans want to gain 5-star covers immediately the moment a 5* feeder is announced.

    Any feeders that don't meet this critieria are usually deemed to be illogical and a lot of angers will be directed at the devs. You can see this in all the past feeders thread.

    Is 4* Black Panther a logical feeder for 5* Black Panther? It's perfectly logical. However, it failed point 1 and point 2. 

    As a whole, feeders for 5* benefits all players.

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