HUF Deploy

TheExaminer

Okay, so yesterday it finally happened: I got extremely lucky, and crafting a legacy mythic yielded me Deploy the Gatewatch. Earlier, I had to craft every single rare from HoD to get that Hazoret's Undying Fury, so getting Deploy as my third craft out of 140 Legacy cards seems fair

It finally happened, the most prized mythic, the centerpiece of the strongest (RIP cycling) deck in the whole game is finally mine.

So, it is time to create a deck. Being a relatively new player, having Platinum in only one color, I own a very shallow collection of cards, and my only strong creature is Gaea's Revenge. No pigs, no Nahiri's, no giant flying boats. 
Therefore, my deck is HUF, Deploy, Revenge and 7 flex slots. One of them, I devote to a Heart-Piercer Manticore (ever heard of that card, hehe?), which is a fancy way to win without attacking, and doesn't decrease overall damage dealt by HUF. The rest is all supports with cycling (quite conveniently, there is 6 of those in MTGPQ), which serve to increase the deck's consistency via guaranteeing finding my HUF.

Theory says, my HUF is guaranteed to deal 128 damage in the worst case scenario (less than 1% chance), and 192 on average. The first game - turn 2 HUF, win. Today I played a Training grounds, and I made 12 turns during all 4 games added together. I cast a total of 4 cards during those 4 games added together. One HUF - one win, and it only took 2-3 Deploys to kill my opponents. There is almost literally nothing they could do to stop me. Not blockers, not Hixus, not Claustrophobia, not removal, not lifegain. Seal away and Authority of the Consuls seem like the only cards that can kinda stop this combo.

In conclusion, I would like to ask a question: why is this a thing? Why are you able to play a win button in Mtgpq? Why has it never been nerfed (while cycling was)? Who thinks having HUF-Deploy in Legacy format is a good idea?

TheExaminer

I would like to add, that I have played a lot of HUF decks, and every single one of them felt broken to me. HUF for Hour of Devastation? Unbeatable. HUF for Gather the Pack and Dark Petition? Sounds janky, but it was ridiculously strong too. HUF for Vivien's Invocation? Oh boy, Wildfire Eternal, Gaea's Revenge and Salvager of Secrets allow you to cast HUF over and over again every turn for free, also unbeatable. The card is clearly the problem, and has to be nerfed.

Tremayne

Welcome in the Deploy TGW club. There is free champagne at all hours and strawberry all year. 😁😁😁

it is a brilliant card, but there are two things that prevent DTGW from being broken in my experience. It is boring to play and the AI can’t win with it. Maybe you have found a way but with so many supports it is doubtful that the AI will ever cast HUF, let alone DTGW.

Have fun with HUF/DTGW.

TheExaminer

Tremayne said:

Welcome in the Deploy TGW club. There is free champagne at all hours and strawberry all year. 😁😁😁

Thanks!  

Tremayne said:

It is boring to play and the AI can’t win with it.

I think I have heard this being said about another deck that got ruthlessly nerfed right when it was about to get retired  

Unknown

This content has been removed.

arNero

Haha, yeah, Hazoret + Deploy is consistently one of the most busted combos in the game. Put it in a deck that has only those two spells, add as many supports as the deck can allow and put some nasty creatures (my best combo so far is Tyrant of Valakut (can be replaced with Skysovereign) + Emrakul + Decimator, but I see you're using Karn since you have Gaea's Revenge), and nothing except those crazy PvE final bosses can survive one volley.

__Adam

This is why I call legacy a dumpster fire.  Take karn and add omni/whir to that combo (omni as only support).  I win on the first turn all the time;  it literally can't get more broken than that.

Urzashead

Ive won on turn one. Huf seasons haste support uncage ghalta.  Also turn one huf into 4 deploy plus gaeas avenger.

DumasAG

Ah, someone else who had to craft all of the rares to get HUF! I run Nahiri for mine, with Samut, Emrakul, Gisela, and Bruna. The meld means I always have enough slots even though I run 4 creatures, and it’s enough damage to win almost every time I cast HUF (I didn’t OTK one time, can’t remember which walker it was that had enough HP to take the hit). Deck is not my creation, picked up the core from someone here on the forums. 

Probably it could do with being scaled down a bit, but seeing as it only ever works in specific nodes in legacy events, it’s not like it’s omnipresent.

Mburn7

The problem isn't deploy, its HUF.  That's broken literally any time I feel like using it.

HUF Invocation and HoP?  Sure
HUF HoD?  Works fine.
HUF Approach (not the right abbreviation)?  500 damage in 5 turns is definitely fun.
HUF Visions of Brutality?  Instant game over.

I mean, you could run Demolish and Firecraft and HUF would work super well.  I love that damn card.
Lets not nerf it, though.  We need fun enablers like that.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Mburn7

starfall said:

Mburn7 said:

The problem isn't deploy, its HUF.  That's broken literally any time I feel like using it.

HUF Invocation and HoP?  Sure
HUF HoD?  Works fine.
HUF Approach (not the right abbreviation)?  500 damage in 5 turns is definitely fun.
HUF Visions of Brutality?  Instant game over.

I mean, you could run Demolish and Firecraft and HUF would work super well.  I love that damn card.
Lets not nerf it, though.  We need fun enablers like that.

Can we at least increase the cost of these fun enablers so that, while casual gamers can have fun with them, they don't break platinum tier play in MTGPQ? EDH players in paper MTG don't think it's unfair that they have to wait 7+ turns to cast their most powerful and fun effects, like Blatant Thievery, or Myojin of Life's Web, or Omniscience.

I mean, in paper you can absolutely cheat out all of those fun things much sooner than that (what's that card?  Show and Tell?  something like that)

Ever seen a turn 3 Emrakul (quicksilver Amulet + ramp)?

At least here a garbage board can slow you down a bit, even with a perfect hand.  In paper there are no such limits.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Szamsziel

Almost every card cheating other cards may be considered broken - dark ritual? Summoner pact? Huf? Omni? Card interactions may the mtg interesting 

GrizzoMtGPQ

We desperately need a ban list in Legacy just for the sake of making us actually innovate. 

Cards that should be banned:

Seasons Past
Omniscience
Hazoret's Undying Fury
Stitch in Time
Blue Sun Zenith

All of these cards are an order of magnitude more powerful than anything else so as to force the player who has them to play them in EVERY deck. You can't help it because anything else is just inviting yourself to lose. Seasons Past is wicked broken because it causes looping like nothing else.

FYI: I have all of these cards and would still recommend that Oktagon/D3 ban all of these.

IM_CARLOS

I have all this card too, but only omni is on my ban list. All other cards are to situational.

Laeuftbeidir

Why should we discuss nerfing the few legacy cards that at least somehow can stand in the comparison to standard when we're flooded with cards as Ghalta, BSZ, STV etc that actually make legacy seem balanced?

Not to say cards like huf and deploy aren't broken. Just saying that I see the real balances issues elsewhere. With the release of GRN I don't actually need my legacy collection for wins in 1-3 turns anymore. The only color I regularly switch in legacy cards is green for the ramp, and sometimes some creatures. 

Edit :

By the way, stitch is only good in combo decks. I have it, without bsz it's just not a really good card to play (two swaps for a card returning 1-3 swaps is actually not a good ROI. Looping into it makes it broken indeed)

TheExaminer

Laeuftbeidir said:

Why should we discuss nerfing the few legacy cards that at least somehow can stand in the comparison to standard when we're flooded with cards as Ghalta, BSZ, STV etc that actually make legacy seem balanced? 

My main issue with Huf Deploy is there is no play to it.
You cast 1(!) single card and win. It is not like there is much skill needed in Mtgpq compared to MTG, Eternal or even Hearthstone, but still.
"I win the game" cards should not exist in any shape or form. 

madwren

Laeuftbeidir said:

Edit :

By the way, stitch is only good in combo decks. I have it, without bsz it's just not a really good card to play (two swaps for a card returning 1-3 swaps is actually not a good ROI. Looping into it makes it broken indeed)

It can be argued that cards facilitating combos/loops are just as broken as the win conditions themselves, even if they aren't extremely powerful in a vacuum.

Gideon

Stop. I guess everyone here wants to dedicate MORE time to playing through the Monotonous legacy events or training grounds on red or white days. Come on let’s not get crazy with saying things are broken. It’s legacy. Everything in legacy is more powerful and hence more fun. Don’t take my fun away.

madwren

GrizzoMtGPQ said:

We desperately need a ban list in Legacy just for the sake of making us actually innovate. 

Cards that should be banned:

Seasons Past
Omniscience
Hazoret's Undying Fury
Stitch in Time
Blue Sun Zenith

All of these cards are an order of magnitude more powerful than anything else so as to force the player who has them to play them in EVERY deck. You can't help it because anything else is just inviting yourself to lose. Seasons Past is wicked broken because it causes looping like nothing else.

FYI: I have all of these cards and would still recommend that Oktagon/D3 ban all of these.

Rishkar's Expertise would like to have a word!

Your point is well taken, but it's true in Standard and Legacy both. There are cards that remain the gold standard, like Gaea's Revenge, which crowds out other would-be viable options because it's so strong.

Basically, when a card allows you to cast something for free or return mana that's exponentially greater than the mana invested, it's gonna break. But I think the sickness is a bit deeper than the spells listed.  There are others whose sole purpose is to facilitate loops. Rashmi, Prism Array, Waterveil, and Rx, for example, some of the many "build your combo" components that Kiora specializes in.

Even HUF is primarily a facilitator; it's only as powerful as the spell it's fetching. Heck, HUF Deploy is definitely the laziest win condition in the game. It's my go-to for "I just want to finish TotP/TG and get to bed".   Even cycling was more work than HUF Deploy on physical effort alone.