New Supports - Hope Summers (10/23/18)

Dartmaster01

I shutter every time I see one of these new support posts. As I've said before, supports themselves are an ok idea but the implementation and availability of them has been atrocious. People will spend money for something they have a reasonable shot at but once people figure out the carrot is truly unattainable, they quit. You are dropping the ball if you want peoples' money. I mean, why make them so gated behind rng? If someone drops 100$ or more, why shouldn't they walk away with at least one decent support? Because how it works now, unless you buy the offers with master tokens, you're most likely getting nothing for your money. Which should not happen and leaves an incredibly bad taste in one's mouth. I want to like supports but chasing a support is equivalent to burning your money. Most have figured it out by now and the rest aren't far behind.   

Dragon_Nexus

Now that the flow of Red ISO has improved I've got nearly 800k. Before the change I had 300K, so I've more than doubled in the, what, month since the change?

So I have plenty of red ISO but being in 5* land the only ones I'd really care to use are the special ones to attach to specific characters, specifically the 5* supports. And it's impossible to get them without spending a buttload of money and crossing your fingers for luck. So I'm continuing to hoard the red ISO.

pheregas

While the increase in red iso drop rates is nice, I still have nothing I want to use it on.  I have two 4* supports, four 3* supports, twelve 2* supports, and four 1* supports, for a grand total of 22 supports.  OUT OF 44!

669,000 red iso and not a support that I care do dump any of it into.

Nick441234

Pr0spect0r said:

turbomoose said:

It’s great that they keep bringing these out but until they make the tokens more freely available I’ll never get too excited about them as despite being at the beginning of 5* game play I do not have a bottomless pit of money to plough into a mobile game and any time I have got a token in the last 6 months it’s always a duplicate 

heres a tip for you , have a vault with just support tokens and you can charge 500-1000 HP for it , otherwise the vaults are a huge waste of time 

I've never bought anything from any of these vaults. Not even the 100 daily value one

Same here. The odds are so incredibly stacked against the player its not even worth bothering with. I haven't earned any supports now since the last time they gave away free tokens. Just no point chasing any of them. 

broll

The only hope I hold onto is the hope that someday the devs will give up on the idea of supports.

fmftint

Brigby said:

Hi @Dormammu. Thanks for your feedback! Rest assured, the acquisition rate of Supports is definitely something we've discussed with the team before, and something they're currently evaluating to see how it can be improved.

I unfortunately don't have any additional information to provide, but once I do, I'll be sure to update everyone on the topic.

Yawn, more "we're listening rhetoric"
How about some action

GrimSkald

Dragon_Nexus said:

Now that the flow of Red ISO has improved I've got nearly 800k. Before the change I had 300K, so I've more than doubled in the, what, month since the change?

So I have plenty of red ISO but being in 5* land the only ones I'd really care to use are the special ones to attach to specific characters, specifically the 5* supports. And it's impossible to get them without spending a buttload of money and crossing your fingers for luck. So I'm continuing to hoard the red ISO.

It's not even a matter of money - you either need to spend HP or CP when a new support comes out or... well actually that's it.  And even then it's fairly dicey.  What's more, supports don't give you that kind of value so only someone with a truly ridiculous amount of disposable income would spend that kind of money.  Anyone else, your money is better spent elsewhere - supports are never going to make or break you more than having the good 5* characters.

A while back, I made this breakdown of how available supports are, along with a proposal of about how available they probably should be.  Brigby seemed interested, and said he was gong to bring the data their various meetings, so I guess we'll see.  TBH, I wouldn't expect a change soon, but I would expect a change -- right now supports are way too hard to get compared to their utility.  Players won't spend more to get them, they'll just ignore them.

tiomono

I buy the 100 hp daily in these vaults. Today I got a 4* hulkling. It's not the best odds at getting something, but you guaranteed get nothing if you dont try.

GrimSkald

tiomono said:

I buy the 100 hp daily in these vaults. Today I got a 4* hulkling. It's not the best odds at getting something, but you guaranteed get nothing if you dont try.

Sure, I pretty much spend 100 hp on any vault that costs that little.  I've indulged in a few of the HP buys, but I've lately come to the decision that I'd rather save up for the 40 packs and get the LT, so I probably won't in the future.  Anyway, doing this I'm only missing 7 of the regularly available supports at the moment - not counting Taskmaster's sword or the Infinity stones.

Dormammu

broll said:

The only hope I hold onto is the hope that someday the devs will give up on the idea of supports.

While I appreciate your loyalty to this position, I for one really like Supports. I enjoy figuring out which of my characters that I use on a regular basis can benefit from the supports I have been fortunate enough to obtain.

For example, I have a Rank 1 Vibranium Ore that I leveled to 50 (its hardcap). The only thing it does is add 237 additional damage to its holder's damaging powers. Pretty puny and useless, right? Well, I stuck it onto Medusa so instead of doing 750 damage every turn, her countdown now does 1000 damage every turn. I like that. It may not be enough to elevate me up another SCL or anything, but a 33% increase in her damage every turn is a nice bonus.

I'm also lucky enough to have a Rank 2 Royal Talon Fighter and a champed Okoye. That one is a difference-maker, as it feeds her team-up AP.

So I like playing with these things. I want to play with them more. My hope is they become more available. I'd be disappointed if the developers abandoned supports rather than try to improve them.

tiomono

GrimSkald said:

tiomono said:

I buy the 100 hp daily in these vaults. Today I got a 4* hulkling. It's not the best odds at getting something, but you guaranteed get nothing if you dont try.

Sure, I pretty much spend 100 hp on any vault that costs that little.  I've indulged in a few of the HP buys, but I've lately come to the decision that I'd rather save up for the 40 packs and get the LT, so I probably won't in the future.  Anyway, doing this I'm only missing 7 of the regularly available supports at the moment - not counting Taskmaster's sword or the Infinity stones.

The only vaults I will buy from are the support vaults. I do that because supports are rare. I do not buy daily deals on other vaults because there is no chance of bonus heros from vaults.

So I will risk some 2 stars on a support vault because I feel the current rarity of supports makes up for no bonus hero odds.

Vins2

fmftint said:

Brigby said:

Hi @Dormammu. Thanks for your feedback! Rest assured, the acquisition rate of Supports is definitely something we've discussed with the team before, and something they're currently evaluating to see how it can be improved.

I unfortunately don't have any additional information to provide, but once I do, I'll be sure to update everyone on the topic.

Yawn, more "we're listening rhetoric"
How about some action

They went from a 200 item vault to a 120 item vault.  I'd say that's baby steps but that implies there will be improvements, and 120 items seems to be as low as they'll go. 

jamesh

Vins2 said:

fmftint said:

Brigby said:

Hi @Dormammu. Thanks for your feedback! Rest assured, the acquisition rate of Supports is definitely something we've discussed with the team before, and something they're currently evaluating to see how it can be improved.

I unfortunately don't have any additional information to provide, but once I do, I'll be sure to update everyone on the topic.

Yawn, more "we're listening rhetoric"
How about some action

They went from a 200 item vault to a 120 item vault.  I'd say that's baby steps but that implies there will be improvements, and 120 items seems to be as low as they'll go. 

They've been keeping the "chance of one draw from the vault resulting in a rank 5 support" fairly constant through all these adjustments though, at or around 1:3000.  That seems to be the only number they haven't experimented with, since it was even like that with the initial release of supports where there was a 300 item vault holding one master token with 1:10 odds of pulling a rank 5.

Quebbster

BlackBoltRocks said:

Gotta admit though, it does feel draggy whenever Korg creates a Protect tile for GladiaThor. But hey, extra ammo for GladiaThor's Red, eh?

Fortunately, there is no need to assign the supports to characters that activate the synergy perk. I have my Korg assigned to Okoye (extra damage and a chance for extra yellow AP work pretty well with her - I don't have the Talon Fighter unfortunately) and Quinjet assigned to Thor. Those two are the only fourstar supports I have at the moment, so next step is to level some threestar supports, Milano will probably be the first.

Spudgutter

Dormammu said:

broll said:

The only hope I hold onto is the hope that someday the devs will give up on the idea of supports.

While I appreciate your loyalty to this position, I for one really like Supports. I enjoy figuring out which of my characters that I use on a regular basis can benefit from the supports I have been fortunate enough to obtain.

For example, I have a Rank 1 Vibranium Ore that I leveled to 50 (its hardcap). The only thing it does is add 237 additional damage to its holder's damaging powers. Pretty puny and useless, right? Well, I stuck it onto Medusa so instead of doing 750 damage every turn, her countdown now does 1000 damage every turn. I like that. It may not be enough to elevate me up another SCL or anything, but a 33% increase in her damage every turn is a nice bonus.

I'm also lucky enough to have a Rank 2 Royal Talon Fighter and a champed Okoye. That one is a difference-maker, as it feeds her team-up AP.

So I like playing with these things. I want to play with them more. My hope is they become more available. I'd be disappointed if the developers abandoned supports rather than try to improve them.

Statistically, how many people do you think were lucky enough to get good supports?  How many of those select few had the patience or foresight to find the advantage hidden in the one or two "ok" supports of the 20+ that were available to them, and have the right combination of decent supports as well as the proper person to put it on, and in a position to use it?

Every time it comes up, someone mentions how they lucked into one support that they like.  The problem is, there is an astronomically large number of people who do not share that luck.  

Mind if i look at that support you equipped medusa?  It increases her damage 33%?  Seems like an impressive bump.  But not for me, or anyone else at cl9.  One node in pve, the enemies have a combined health of 116131.  That 237 extra damage is 0.002% extra damage. 

You are right, not bumping you up a CL, but think again about the number of people who lucked into that support, who have also lucked into a usable Medusa.  It's more understandable that people dislike supports than not. 

The lip service given, that they are looking at it, is too little, too late.  It took over 6 months to increase the flow of riso, and it is still not on pace to match the number of those released, even taking into account the fact that half of the supports released aren't being added to the tokens and are mostly kept behind a pay wall.  This should have been addressed immediately, and the fact that it wasn't, i think is a good enough reason for some off us to be put off of supports altogether.  

BlackBoltRocks said:

Same here. Supports are such that you don't miss them if they're not there, but when they do activate, it's a welcome bonus. 

I'm not sure if that helps your argument or mine lol

tiomono

Spudgutter said:

Dormammu said:

broll said:

The only hope I hold onto is the hope that someday the devs will give up on the idea of supports.

While I appreciate your loyalty to this position, I for one really like Supports. I enjoy figuring out which of my characters that I use on a regular basis can benefit from the supports I have been fortunate enough to obtain.

For example, I have a Rank 1 Vibranium Ore that I leveled to 50 (its hardcap). The only thing it does is add 237 additional damage to its holder's damaging powers. Pretty puny and useless, right? Well, I stuck it onto Medusa so instead of doing 750 damage every turn, her countdown now does 1000 damage every turn. I like that. It may not be enough to elevate me up another SCL or anything, but a 33% increase in her damage every turn is a nice bonus.

I'm also lucky enough to have a Rank 2 Royal Talon Fighter and a champed Okoye. That one is a difference-maker, as it feeds her team-up AP.

So I like playing with these things. I want to play with them more. My hope is they become more available. I'd be disappointed if the developers abandoned supports rather than try to improve them.

Statistically, how many people do you think were lucky enough to get good supports?  How many of those select few had the patience or foresight to find the advantage hidden in the one or two "ok" supports of the 20+ that were available to them, and have the right combination of decent supports as well as the proper person to put it on, and in a position to use it?

Every time it comes up, someone mentions how they lucked into one support that they like.  The problem is, there is an astronomically large number of people who do not share that luck.  

Mind if i look at that support you equipped medusa?  It increases her damage 33%?  Seems like an impressive bump.  But not for me, or anyone else at cl9.  One node in pve, the enemies have a combined health of 116131.  That 237 extra damage is 0.002% extra damage. 

You are right, not bumping you up a CL, but think again about the number of people who lucked into that support, who have also lucked into a usable Medusa.  It's more understandable that people dislike supports than not. 

The lip service given, that they are looking at it, is too little, too late.  It took over 6 months to increase the flow of riso, and it is still not on pace to match the number of those released, even taking into account the fact that half of the supports released aren't being added to the tokens and are literally kept behind a pay wall.  This should have been addressed immediately, and the fact that it wasn't, i think is a good enough reason for some off us to be put off of supports altogether.  

BlackBoltRocks said:

Same here. Supports are such that you don't miss them if they're not there, but when they do activate, it's a welcome bonus. 

I'm not sure if that helps your argument or mine lol

I dont spend any money on the game and have quite a few of the newer supports that are "literally kept behind a paywall". Unless we have different definitions of paywall that's an exxageration.

1* stepford cuckoos
4* royal talon fighter
4* hulkling 
3* yaro root
2* pocket radio
2* quantum realm
2* shuris lab
2* carol corps
1* astral plane
1* spider-sense

Granted I do not use many of them regularly but they are attainable without paying.

Spudgutter

tiomono said:

Spudgutter said:

Dormammu said:

broll said:

The only hope I hold onto is the hope that someday the devs will give up on the idea of supports.

While I appreciate your loyalty to this position, I for one really like Supports. I enjoy figuring out which of my characters that I use on a regular basis can benefit from the supports I have been fortunate enough to obtain.

For example, I have a Rank 1 Vibranium Ore that I leveled to 50 (its hardcap). The only thing it does is add 237 additional damage to its holder's damaging powers. Pretty puny and useless, right? Well, I stuck it onto Medusa so instead of doing 750 damage every turn, her countdown now does 1000 damage every turn. I like that. It may not be enough to elevate me up another SCL or anything, but a 33% increase in her damage every turn is a nice bonus.

I'm also lucky enough to have a Rank 2 Royal Talon Fighter and a champed Okoye. That one is a difference-maker, as it feeds her team-up AP.

So I like playing with these things. I want to play with them more. My hope is they become more available. I'd be disappointed if the developers abandoned supports rather than try to improve them.

Statistically, how many people do you think were lucky enough to get good supports?  How many of those select few had the patience or foresight to find the advantage hidden in the one or two "ok" supports of the 20+ that were available to them, and have the right combination of decent supports as well as the proper person to put it on, and in a position to use it?

Every time it comes up, someone mentions how they lucked into one support that they like.  The problem is, there is an astronomically large number of people who do not share that luck.  

Mind if i look at that support you equipped medusa?  It increases her damage 33%?  Seems like an impressive bump.  But not for me, or anyone else at cl9.  One node in pve, the enemies have a combined health of 116131.  That 237 extra damage is 0.002% extra damage. 

You are right, not bumping you up a CL, but think again about the number of people who lucked into that support, who have also lucked into a usable Medusa.  It's more understandable that people dislike supports than not. 

The lip service given, that they are looking at it, is too little, too late.  It took over 6 months to increase the flow of riso, and it is still not on pace to match the number of those released, even taking into account the fact that half of the supports released aren't being added to the tokens and are literally kept behind a pay wall.  This should have been addressed immediately, and the fact that it wasn't, i think is a good enough reason for some off us to be put off of supports altogether.  

BlackBoltRocks said:

Same here. Supports are such that you don't miss them if they're not there, but when they do activate, it's a welcome bonus. 

I'm not sure if that helps your argument or mine lol

I dont spend any money on the game and have quite a few of the newer supports that are "literally kept behind a paywall". Unless we have different definitions of paywall that's an exxageration.

1* stepford cuckoos
4* royal talon fighter
4* hulkling 
3* yaro root
2* pocket radio
2* quantum realm
2* shuris lab
2* carol corps
1* astral plane
1* spider-sense

Granted I do not use many of them regularly but they are attainable without paying.

Correct me if wrong, but we have had several instances where the new support was only available for the master token (whatever gets you the 5* version) was if you got the HfH.  

If i am remembering incorrectly, it doesnt change much.  It still means you would have to be super lucky at a super specific period of time, because they have not been added to the token pool.  

Let me know and i will edit my post to say "mostly" instead of literally in the mean time

cyineedsn

tiomono said:

Spudgutter said:

Dormammu said:

broll said:

The only hope I hold onto is the hope that someday the devs will give up on the idea of supports.

While I appreciate your loyalty to this position, I for one really like Supports. I enjoy figuring out which of my characters that I use on a regular basis can benefit from the supports I have been fortunate enough to obtain.

For example, I have a Rank 1 Vibranium Ore that I leveled to 50 (its hardcap). The only thing it does is add 237 additional damage to its holder's damaging powers. Pretty puny and useless, right? Well, I stuck it onto Medusa so instead of doing 750 damage every turn, her countdown now does 1000 damage every turn. I like that. It may not be enough to elevate me up another SCL or anything, but a 33% increase in her damage every turn is a nice bonus.

I'm also lucky enough to have a Rank 2 Royal Talon Fighter and a champed Okoye. That one is a difference-maker, as it feeds her team-up AP.

So I like playing with these things. I want to play with them more. My hope is they become more available. I'd be disappointed if the developers abandoned supports rather than try to improve them.

Statistically, how many people do you think were lucky enough to get good supports?  How many of those select few had the patience or foresight to find the advantage hidden in the one or two "ok" supports of the 20+ that were available to them, and have the right combination of decent supports as well as the proper person to put it on, and in a position to use it?

Every time it comes up, someone mentions how they lucked into one support that they like.  The problem is, there is an astronomically large number of people who do not share that luck.  

Mind if i look at that support you equipped medusa?  It increases her damage 33%?  Seems like an impressive bump.  But not for me, or anyone else at cl9.  One node in pve, the enemies have a combined health of 116131.  That 237 extra damage is 0.002% extra damage. 

You are right, not bumping you up a CL, but think again about the number of people who lucked into that support, who have also lucked into a usable Medusa.  It's more understandable that people dislike supports than not. 

The lip service given, that they are looking at it, is too little, too late.  It took over 6 months to increase the flow of riso, and it is still not on pace to match the number of those released, even taking into account the fact that half of the supports released aren't being added to the tokens and are literally kept behind a pay wall.  This should have been addressed immediately, and the fact that it wasn't, i think is a good enough reason for some off us to be put off of supports altogether.  

BlackBoltRocks said:

Same here. Supports are such that you don't miss them if they're not there, but when they do activate, it's a welcome bonus. 

I'm not sure if that helps your argument or mine lol

I dont spend any money on the game and have quite a few of the newer supports that are "literally kept behind a paywall". Unless we have different definitions of paywall that's an exxageration.

1* stepford cuckoos
4* royal talon fighter
4* hulkling 
3* yaro root
2* pocket radio
2* quantum realm
2* shuris lab
2* carol corps
1* astral plane
1* spider-sense

Granted I do not use many of them regularly but they are attainable without paying.

Counterpoint, I too have bought daily deals on the support vaults every day that I could, and out of your list I have:

3* Ancestral Plane
2* Shuris lab

tiomono

@spudgutter I'm not sure on the 5* variant of the supports. They can still be useful even if not at the 5* level.

@cyineedsn well that stinks.

My point is that they are not impossible to get. They definitely need tweaking to make it easier, but many people have such a deep seated hatred for the supports that regardless of what the devs do they get criticized for it and I find that tiring.

Spudgutter

tiomono said:

@spudgutter I'm not sure on the 5* variant of the supports. They can still be useful even if not at the 5* level.

@cyineedsn well that stinks.

My point is that they are not impossible to get. They definitely need tweaking to make it easier, but many people have such a deep seated hatred for the supports that regardless of what the devs do they get criticized for it and I find that tiring.

@tiomono

You helped prove my point.  The only reason you seem to be ok with them is *precisely* because you were lucky enough to get them.  I also pull the 100 hp offer everyday, on every vault, supports or otherwise.  I am top 50 cl9 pve, top 100 pve alliance, top 25 cl9 pvp and top 25 pvp alliance.  I pull what could be argued as "more than my fair share" of tokens.  Of your list above, i have

2* shuri's lab
2* spider sense

That's it.

You, and subsequently others, are "tired" of hearing the criticism of the have-nots strictly because you are in the land of the haves.  

You say they are not impossible to get, and this is technically true.  But to the vast majority, literally due to the way the odds work, they may as well be impossible.  

The problem with the devs being criticized "regardless of what they do" is because they are not doing anything.  The first time new supports were added, but were not to the support store, I'm pretty sure it was brought to their attention. That number is now 20.  You dont think that is a valid criticism?