Duel Decks - Open To All! (10/9/18)
Comments
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Great beta test you had there guys! You took all our feedback and used it to intentionally make the event as bad as possible?!
The first beta was fantastic, great rewards and almost unlimited amount of rounds to play, with a runes reward which by itself fixed the runes issue WHICH YOUR OWN Q&A ADMITS NEED FIXING!!
Instead of being an exciting event to look forward to, it just makes people groan instead...because you ask for feedback, and then completely ignore it.
What exactly was the point of the test at all at that point???
I hope at least the rampant freezes are fixed...
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If you just restore the unlimited runes in the duel phase, the people WILL LOVE THIS EVENT0
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I can't help wondering if this is all a miscommunication. The changes listed are in fact the changes from beta 1 to beta 2.
What we want is the list of changes from beta 2 to the open event. That has to be a different list, otherwise no list would have been needed. They could have announced "no changes" and be done.
I'm withholding judgment for now.
But yeah beta 2 sucked deploy. No changes would be a bad thing.2 -
This is bad. I hated beta 2. We already have events with long recharge times!
I was hoping for something fresh and different and Beta 1 was exactly that! And the objectives were in flavor with the theme of the event. Beta 2 missed that mark completely. No theme, no competitive environment, poor rune rewards.
I gave feedback and none of it was in favor of beta 2. If I wanted a long time recharge event... I'll play RotGP.0 -
Pls confirm this isn't a mistake!...
Really? You are saying that all the feedback was completely ignored?0 -
First of all, thank you very much for your answer @Brigby, but as you can read these were the changes from beta 1 to beta 2.Brigby said:Hi Everyone. Once I gather all the information I need, I'll be sure to create an Event Detail page for Zendikar vs Eldrazi. In the meantime though, here is a brief overview of some of the battle details that were changed:
Phase Start/End Times- Challenge Phase: 22h -> 18h
- Duel Phase: 8h -> 18h
- Final Duel Phase: 24h -> 12h
- Total: 54h -> 48h
- Call to Arms: Create 16 or more Creature Tokens... -> Create 22 or more Creature Tokens...
- Spell Caster -> Bounty Hunter: Deal 20 or more damage to a Planeswalker during a turn.
- Geomancer -> Prodigal: Win with only cards that costs 11 or more mana.
- Ambush -> Pauper: Win with only Common and Uncommon cards.
- Call to Arms: Create 16 or more Creature Tokens... -> Create 20 or more Creature Tokens...
- Striker -> Mightstone: Cast 3 or more creatures with power 6 or more.
- Emrakul's Emergence -> Prodigal: Win with only cards that costs 11 or more mana.
- Artificer -> Pauper: Win with only Common and Uncommon cards.
- Initial Charges: 2 -> 0
- Maximum Charges: No change
- Recharge Time: 10 min -> 5 hrs 30 min
If the final release of the event is going to be like the beta 2, I really hope this is a mistake, they have not read the feedback.
No need of running this event without a coalition one in parallel as 5:30 minutes to get a charge cannot stress any server.0 -
Dont like this. Wish we had the rewards and recharge time of the first time this event was run in beta.Brigby said:Hi Everyone. Once I gather all the information I need, I'll be sure to create an Event Detail page for Zendikar vs Eldrazi. In the meantime though, here is a brief overview of some of the battle details that were changed:
Phase Start/End Times- Challenge Phase: 22h -> 18h
- Duel Phase: 8h -> 18h
- Final Duel Phase: 24h -> 12h
- Total: 54h -> 48h
- Call to Arms: Create 16 or more Creature Tokens... -> Create 22 or more Creature Tokens...
- Spell Caster -> Bounty Hunter: Deal 20 or more damage to a Planeswalker during a turn.
- Geomancer -> Prodigal: Win with only cards that costs 11 or more mana.
- Ambush -> Pauper: Win with only Common and Uncommon cards.
- Call to Arms: Create 16 or more Creature Tokens... -> Create 20 or more Creature Tokens...
- Striker -> Mightstone: Cast 3 or more creatures with power 6 or more.
- Emrakul's Emergence -> Prodigal: Win with only cards that costs 11 or more mana.
- Artificer -> Pauper: Win with only Common and Uncommon cards.
- Initial Charges: 2 -> 0
- Maximum Charges: No change
- Recharge Time: 10 min -> 5 hrs 30 min
I really like you could play a lot of matches and get decent runes while doing so. If you keep these rewards I don't think many of the top coalition players will be interested in playing.0 -
I won't tag Brigby on top of y'all, he'll have enough notifications.Haven't seen my group, but on their behalf :We loved the first one. We didn't enjoy the second iteration. ZvsE was a big war with uncountable encounters, not only few fights!I honestly don't believe that the big majority of unconnected players did have the opposite opinion. I hope this was just a communication issue1
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Really?... tell me it's not true that they really ignored us all... .way to go Oktagon…. sigh.
Why bother letting us participate in a beta, asking us for feedback and then throwing the feedback out of the window?
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Wow. I cracked a joke that the feedback was being requested so the devs would know exactly what we liked and disliked, so they could remove liked things and only include disliked things. I guess I need to be careful what I wish for. You nailed it. What a terrible terrible way of handling player feedback. Awful. Horrible. Ugh!0
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If the 2nd run of the bets is meant to be the version that sees light oficially, i really hope it is not meant to replace a weekend coalition event when it is scheduled.
This second run not only reduces rewards to an extreme, but it is also very poor in terms of playing content : a bunch of pve fights (6 if it goes well) and about 10 pvp fights for a 3 days event would be very underwhelming.0 -
khurram said:
I shouldn't have used the word "another". That's my bad. What I meant to say is they shouldn't run it together with a coaltion event. And yes, like @Kinesia said, time pressure. A single coalition event in the weekend is enough for me to get by the weekend.I didn't play the first beta iteration of this event, so I don't know what most of the players here are complaining about. IF Oktagon chooses to run the second iteration without any other noncoalition event, then I understand their reaction when they say "there's nothing to do".
One of the biggest challenges for the developers is to find a balance between providing enough content for players that seem to play this game nonstop and for players that have other commitments, like me. I've said earlier that I don't care if they run 100 optional events. Go knock yourself out.
I think it's a great idea to have the focus on the new event and if that's the reason they don't run any other event, then that's understandable. Looking at the storm of errors I had last time, having more events is asking for trouble. Oktagon should prioritize fixing bugs and make sure cards that used to be fine work again like they should (Etali, Doomfall, Perilous Voyage, Sphinx's Decree, etc.)
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Since there's a big kerfuffle let me share my "fantasy theory"... I have ZERO information that the rest of you don't have, so this is supposition BUT it makes pretty much everything make sense.
Many of us had the thought that Ravnica was dropping this week due to the gap in the time table...
But now Duel Decks is up...
I don't think _either_ was certain. I think there was a chance Ravnica was going to come out but something needs more time so Duel Decks is out as a backup plan (a backup plan they DID partly have setup in advance.), they can't adjust it to deal with the feedback from beta 2 because they are fixing Ravnica and it's crunch time but they'll fix the beta 2 stuff later.
So... None of this is _quite_ on purpose, it's just that none of the plans quite went perfectly, it's just that this is actually BETTER than old error handling, we are still getting content and things are still moving forward.
If true this shows much better planning than the past, things still went wrong, but things always go wrong, every creature is destroyed or exiled or bounced, your 5th plan might work if you are lucky!
So it's a bit bumpy but the fact that they HAVE backup plans now (instead of manually putting an event on halfway through saturday) is soooooo much better than before in terms of the future!
They just have to get better at these things, but this is way better than the past.
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1200 runes for an almost unlimited number of games is extreme, and unprecedented. Rune gains from DD are comparable in some ways with the old QB, which gave its regular players stockpiles of millions of runes, some of which are still nowhere near being whittled down, and would therefore still seem to impose a design space constraint, even now. Such huge rune gains in the current environment have some further balance issues:* It makes other events running at the same time almost not worth playing.
* If sustained over time, it causes an increasing disparity between players whose time zone allows them to play a large number of games (e.g. those for whom it's the weekend), and players whose time zone means they have very limited time to play (e.g. those for whom it's a workday).But the node timer change from 10 minutes to 3.5h reduces the potential runes winnable by a whopping 95%, neutering the entire duel phase, and taking away the thrill of speed-based competition, which at least some players seem to like a lot, and which hasn't been a part of the game since QB. It also makes the amount of gameplay too low, especially if DD is seen as a replacement for a weekend coalition event. My idea of a reasonable compromise would have been something like 30 minute recharges, or the original fast pace with less extreme rune gains, like 500.7 -
Look, I think the rewards complaining is a little over-dramatic. Of course they cant give every player in the game 200 jewels in one event. That would be incredibly stupid from a business perspective.
Now, dropping that 200 to 20 is not the solution either, but I don't get how people expect the 200 to stay forever. I couldn't even believe that it was there to begin with.
Now the objective complaints are entirely justified. Pauper Eldrazi just defeats the purpose (since all the good ones are Rare or Mythic), and expensive landfall is also not so great. The only saving grace is that you only need to win once with the secondaries and then get to ignore them forever, so its not a huge issue.1 -
I agree with you 100%.Mburn7 said:Look, I think the rewards complaining is a little over-dramatic. Of course they cant give every player in the game 200 jewels in one event. That would be incredibly stupid from a business perspective.
Now, dropping that 200 to 20 is not the solution either, but I don't get how people expect the 200 to stay forever. I couldn't even believe that it was there to begin with.
Now the objective complaints are entirely justified. Pauper Eldrazi just defeats the purpose (since all the good ones are Rare or Mythic), and expensive landfall is also not so great. The only saving grace is that you only need to win once with the secondaries and then get to ignore them forever, so its not a huge issue.
Though I have to say that after getting at the first try the other Eldrazi objective I played all the rest of the games with the deck I made for the pauper objective and won all of them. It was by far more fun.0 -
Octagon has given the players the illusion that their feedback is useful and will be taken into account before releasing the open duel deck event...
And I feel a new event would be great, but how about fixing the errors that are long since known of? The developers should focus on fixing those known errors and bugs and make sure that everything works like it should before rushing a new event into play.
Don't be surprised when the forum and support desk will be flooded with complaints when the event starts...0 -
There's no doubt that Beta 1 was much much better than Beta 2.
The awards, both jewels and all possible runes, were so generous that it led me to believe that it was more of a gift to Beta 1 players for their help rather than actual rewards for the event. We have received 200 jewels just for 4 or 6 matches. And 1200 runes for a win every 5 or 10 minutes? As Volrak said, unprecedented.
Did (almost) everybody believe that the rewards would remain the same in the future?
I complained about the recharge time in my Beta 1 feedback. It was just too fast for me. I would appreciate a slower pace, but I understand all of you advocating for keeping it as in Beta 1. On the other hand, Beta 2 was just extremely slow and missed the feel of urgency of the ongoing battle between Z and E.
Beta 1 and 2 were two extremes to me. There should be a sweet spot somewhere in the middle that would make players, as well as the developers happy. On the reward side probably closer to Beta 2 (to protect the in-game economy if this was Octagon's concern), and on the recharge times closer to Beta 2 (to allow players to have a good place for farming runes once in a while).
If our feedback was supposed to help creating a good and satisfying event, it remains a mystery to me, how is it possible that Octagon has decided that Beta 2 did not need any adjustment.
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I would be happy with 200 to 250 runes per fight tbh. It's that quick intense scurry of battles that appealed to me. Not 200 runes every 5 hours (I'm exaggerating here, I know but you get the gist)Volrak said:1200 runes for an almost unlimited number of games is extreme, and unprecedented. Rune gains from DD are comparable in some ways with the old QB, which gave its regular players stockpiles of millions of runes, some of which are still nowhere near being whittled down, and would therefore still seem to impose a design space constraint, even now. Such huge rune gains in the current environment have some further balance issues:* It makes other events running at the same time almost not worth playing.
* If sustained over time, it causes an increasing disparity between players whose time zone allows them to play a large number of games (e.g. those for whom it's the weekend), and players whose time zone means they have very limited time to play (e.g. those for whom it's a workday).But the node timer change from 10 minutes to 3.5h reduces the potential runes winnable by a whopping 95%, neutering the entire duel phase, and taking away the thrill of speed-based competition, which at least some players seem to like a lot, and which hasn't been a part of the game since QB. It also makes the amount of gameplay too low, especially if DD is seen as a replacement for a weekend coalition event. My idea of a reasonable compromise would have been something like 30 minute recharges, or the original fast pace with less extreme rune gains, like 500.
But I somewhat disagree about the 1200 runes being excessive. Here's why and/or suggestions to validate it.
1. Compared to a year ago, we are accruing almost 6x more PW per quarter. Almost no change to how runes are gathered was made in that time. A year ago I would completely agree with you.
2. That said, there are only so many runes that can be farmed. 236,400 was it? (Discord had done the math on this)
To max each PW a player needs the following.
Mono = 80k
Dual = 162k
Triple/colorless = 324k
Now this total that you can get is only if you sell your soul for the weekend and grind like no one's business. It is not like you're given 234,400 runes at the end of the event. You have to earn them through dedication. Say even a healthy amount like 100k runes (which is what I managed to get) was enough for one mono or almost 2/3rds of a dual. Or under 1/3rd for a triple/colorless. That's 1 PW out of a very large pool that we already have.
3. That said, it is excessive if this event runs more than once a month on the beta 1 format. But I am and have recomended that this event run once a month in that format. This would allow players to grind and level a favored PW of choice or if they're crazy to grind that much, 3 mono or two dual PW of choice to level 60.... if they want to go that high.
4. The rate that PW are being applied to this game... something has to give back. We cannot maintain the format we have a year ago today. A limited time once a month rune resource like this event is a good thing for this game.
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I actually think the amount of runes was excessive on the first run for a nearly continuous grind event. I slept and did other things like a normal person and earned 170K.
However....
I loved the grindy nature of the first run, and I honestly thought it was an answer to a year of us begging for better rune opportunities. I would still grind it for 300 runes a match -- mostly because I like this kind of gameplay -- and I am one of the few players who has a pretty good bank of runes. I don't need them like other people. I have 45/45 PW all are maxed except for TED who I don't want to max until I see what's coming with GRN -- but I have almost 500K Runes so he could be maxed.
1200 might be excessive for a single event at 10 minute recharges -- maybe 600 with 10 minute recharges would make everyone happy?
What doesn't make people happy is 5.5 hour recharges... with nothing else to do in the game. You literally only have to log in for 30 minutes a day and you've completed the event.4
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