How do you feel about B4T?

madwren

Let's not forget that this event was created, and designed, to be countered by cards that we can no longer use.

When they revamped the objectives for RotGP, I was so thrilled, and optimistic that they'd implement similar changes for other PVE events. It was downright inspirational, and opened the game up for people with smaller collections that can't depend as heavily on a large number of mythics and masterpieces. 

Nope. 

Bo4t is not only tedious, not only annoying, not only an incredibly boring time sink, but the objectives are among the worst of RNG-based frustration.  

Machine

Thanks for starting this thread, because I think a lot has to be said and discussed regarding this event. For starters:

joerginger said:

This event was the last straw. After its end I will delete this "game" from my phone and try to forget I ever wasted time and many hundreds of Euros on this utterly horrible thing, Good bye and good riddance.

I had EXACTLY the same feeling, while I was enjoying the rest of the game. I woke up Saturday morning with 15 (!) charges ready. Now, if these charges can be quickly played than it's not that big of a problem. But this event is way too grindy and consumes up at least 10-12 hours (!!) for a weekend.

Next point (again), is that this event runs through on Monday. It's impossible to combine this grind fest with work without somehow slacking on work, which is what people shouldn't be doing.

Next, why does this event have two starting charges on each node? Why isn't it in line with Avacyn's Madness, the Dragon War, Nodes of Power, etc, where these five node events have one starting charge?

Next, this event is too bugged. If players are already frustrated by this event, you shouldn't make it worse by all these bugs. I was just playing 1.2, used Kiora's first ability and the gem board froze. I can't move gems or rearrange my cards in hand. Yay, cool man! Injury to insult.

Next, you seriously need to rebalance the objectives. Most of the objectives can be wasted by the AI or depends too much on luck and I don't think that's what your game should be doing. The Slaughter the Strong example above is a good example. Winning in X or less turns or receiving Y or less damage is too much leaning on luck. Objectives shouldn't be fun, not counter intuitive.

I can go on, but this event has in yet another way cost me too much of my time ;-)

This event REALLY managed to let me contemplate about quitting this game for good, because it's simply not fun to play AND also consumes a lot of your time in the process. I've been playing this game for over two years and this event instantly sucks all the fun and energy out of me.

A little side note: I honestly assumed B4T was removed from the event pool because the devs realized players didn't like it. How wrong I've been. I never understood why Trial of Zeal isn't replayed, just like Revolt against the Consulte is rerun or Fateful Showdown. But... that's another discussion.

khurram

This event is evil.

That's all.

khurram

It's like your ex-girlfriend/boyfriend. You thought you loved them once.

And maybe you did... but that affair has run its course; now its time to let go and move on.

[Deleted User]

Brakkis said:

I still dislike 3.2, all of 4.x, 5.1 and 5.2

With 3.2 I've never even bothered with the "Take 15 or less damage" objective. The AI can deal that after dropping a single creature the next turn. The entirety of 4.x is just too much of a grind with each of the 3 nodes there feeling like a Bolas slog-fest. As for 5.1, I will never try for the "Win with 20 or less HP remaining" objective either.

As for 5.2 ... I've never liked it. Even with the Immortal Sun or just straight Samut nuking it, it's never been an enjoyable node and I've always felt that its ability to one shot you after cascading out a couple of treasure coves in a row was an asinine ability.

For 5.1, the key is to use admiral beckett to control the board without killing your opponents creatures since stealing counts as killing my own creatures. Also Dowsing dagger and In bolas clutches till you stabilize after low life and can replace it for one his many stack of golems. Easy-peasy.

For 4.1, same deal use admiral beckett, this way when your opponent casts slaughter the strong he can't suicide creatures he doesn't have.

3.2 and 5.2 are luck based but a kiora deck works like a charm - there's your hint. And for 5.2 I recommend sorc's spyglass with BSZ to combo it out. Also I don't think I can share this deck cause the base idea was not initially mine to begin with; I think I need permission first? Not sure.

I like the "win with 20 or less HP remaining"

I didn't like the kill within x turns when I couldn't do it before but now that I can I don't mind it.

I believe, unfortunately, these difficult objectives are necessary to split the leaderboards from all having the same score from easy events. Although luck is involved, it comes down to how well you build your deck to battle against bad luck.

[Deleted User]

Mburn7 said:

I don't mind it, except for the boss fights and the last node.  The boss fights are all way too grindy and luck-based to get the objectives, and the last node is just stupid.  I like challenging fights, but I like them to be consistently possible too.

I agree but once you get a deck that can kill fast it doesn't feel as grindy.. lol

I used to feel the same way dont get me wrong. But a kiora deck similar to the one I use for 5.2 ended the match in 13-ish minutes. I wasn't used to the deck but I think once I get used to it; I can shave it down to about 8-10 minutes.

[Deleted User]

This post and some of the comments are hilarious to me.

I remember complaining about how long and grindy it was with 5 nodes but people were like "OMG its new! its so fun! I could play this for days!"

I remember complaining about how I have to build a new deck every single event and that it takes A LOT of time for me to do so. Then they run the event with new objectives or with the rotation of a new format and I have to do this again...  but people were like "OMG new objectives! deckbuilding time so cool!"

I almost want to say "told you so."

This was the reason I promote balance as this game has way too many things on one edge or the other.

Anyhow, welcome to my grinding hell. Please have a seat on this extremely uncomfortable chair and waste your life away on this game with me

EDIT: sorry I just noticed as this post could be interpreted the wrong way. I want to be clear that I am not singling anyone out nor am I trying to attack anyone and I do not in any way wish to make anyone feel hurt or bad. It was a general feeling I got when this event or situation arose at the time from some of the community (of course, not everyone and I understand some people were genuinely excited and such which is cool) and I am just honestly expressing some thoughts. Therefore, before my comment becomes a possible issue, I would like to apologize in advance. Also, my humor may also be more vulgar than most... heh

bk1234

jimpark said:

Brakkis said:

I still dislike 3.2, all of 4.x, 5.1 and 5.2

With 3.2 I've never even bothered with the "Take 15 or less damage" objective. The AI can deal that after dropping a single creature the next turn. The entirety of 4.x is just too much of a grind with each of the 3 nodes there feeling like a Bolas slog-fest. As for 5.1, I will never try for the "Win with 20 or less HP remaining" objective either.

As for 5.2 ... I've never liked it. Even with the Immortal Sun or just straight Samut nuking it, it's never been an enjoyable node and I've always felt that its ability to one shot you after cascading out a couple of treasure coves in a row was an asinine ability.

For 5.1, the key is to use admiral beckett to control the board without killing your opponents creatures since stealing counts as killing my own creatures. Also Dowsing dagger and In bolas clutches till you stabilize after low life and can replace it for one his many stack of golems. Easy-peasy.

For 4.1, same deal use admiral beckett, this way when your opponent casts slaughter the strong he can't suicide creatures he doesn't have.

3.2 and 5.2 are luck based but a kiora deck works like a charm - there's your hint. And for 5.2 I recommend sorc's spyglass with BSZ to combo it out. Also I don't think I can share this deck cause the base idea was not initially mine to begin with; I think I need permission first? Not sure.

I like the "win with 20 or less HP remaining"

I didn't like the kill within x turns when I couldn't do it before but now that I can I don't mind it.

I believe, unfortunately, these difficult objectives are necessary to split the leaderboards from all having the same score from easy events. Although luck is involved, it comes down to how well you build your deck to battle against bad luck.

You do realize that these solutions you’re offering include cards that most players don’t have, right? 

Thats the thing about this event, especially in this new Standard — it requires a very elite collection to be successful. 

Other PVE with some time and creativity, even players in their first month can beat the late levels. Not this one.

This event just crushes their souls. 

Laeuftbeidir

bken1234 said:

jimpark said:

Brakkis said:

I still dislike 3.2, all of 4.x, 5.1 and 5.2

With 3.2 I've never even bothered with the "Take 15 or less damage" objective. The AI can deal that after dropping a single creature the next turn. The entirety of 4.x is just too much of a grind with each of the 3 nodes there feeling like a Bolas slog-fest. As for 5.1, I will never try for the "Win with 20 or less HP remaining" objective either.

As for 5.2 ... I've never liked it. Even with the Immortal Sun or just straight Samut nuking it, it's never been an enjoyable node and I've always felt that its ability to one shot you after cascading out a couple of treasure coves in a row was an asinine ability.

For 5.1, the key is to use admiral beckett to control the board without killing your opponents creatures since stealing counts as killing my own creatures. Also Dowsing dagger and In bolas clutches till you stabilize after low life and can replace it for one his many stack of golems. Easy-peasy.

For 4.1, same deal use admiral beckett, this way when your opponent casts slaughter the strong he can't suicide creatures he doesn't have.

3.2 and 5.2 are luck based but a kiora deck works like a charm - there's your hint. And for 5.2 I recommend sorc's spyglass with BSZ to combo it out. Also I don't think I can share this deck cause the base idea was not initially mine to begin with; I think I need permission first? Not sure.

I like the "win with 20 or less HP remaining"

I didn't like the kill within x turns when I couldn't do it before but now that I can I don't mind it.

I believe, unfortunately, these difficult objectives are necessary to split the leaderboards from all having the same score from easy events. Although luck is involved, it comes down to how well you build your deck to battle against bad luck.

You do realize that these solutions you’re offering include cards that most players don’t have, right? 

Thats the thing about this event, especially in this new Standard — it requires a very elite collection to be successful. 

Other PVE with some time and creativity, even players in their first month can beat the late levels. Not this one.

This event just crushes their souls. 

I

 agree and disagree with you here.

What's the problem with new players not being able to clear endgame content immediately? AM totally crushed me when I was new. Node 3 was the end of the line for me. I didn't complain.. After a while, I managed to win on node 3, and sometimes on 4..that felt good! That's progression! Too bad the event ended then.. But when it returned 9 months ago it was great to see how much I've advanced. And didn't you ask for endgame content as well? 

Before cycling, I can't remember anyone thinking that way. Anyway, that doesn't change at all that this event isn't really fun, but it's the worst event when you have to catch up some refreshes.

NellieFloor

This event is the one i don’t look forward to. Creating 15 decks, playing against some impossible opponents, getting frustrated when you get stuck against one (4.3 e.g).  I have a decent set of cards, I can manage but I don’t know what i would do without the support of the coalition... this event is too damn hard and it takes forever. It’s time to rethink this event to make it more fun.

[Deleted User]

bken1234 said:

jimpark said:

Brakkis said:

I still dislike 3.2, all of 4.x, 5.1 and 5.2

With 3.2 I've never even bothered with the "Take 15 or less damage" objective. The AI can deal that after dropping a single creature the next turn. The entirety of 4.x is just too much of a grind with each of the 3 nodes there feeling like a Bolas slog-fest. As for 5.1, I will never try for the "Win with 20 or less HP remaining" objective either.

As for 5.2 ... I've never liked it. Even with the Immortal Sun or just straight Samut nuking it, it's never been an enjoyable node and I've always felt that its ability to one shot you after cascading out a couple of treasure coves in a row was an asinine ability.

For 5.1, the key is to use admiral beckett to control the board without killing your opponents creatures since stealing counts as killing my own creatures. Also Dowsing dagger and In bolas clutches till you stabilize after low life and can replace it for one his many stack of golems. Easy-peasy.

For 4.1, same deal use admiral beckett, this way when your opponent casts slaughter the strong he can't suicide creatures he doesn't have.

3.2 and 5.2 are luck based but a kiora deck works like a charm - there's your hint. And for 5.2 I recommend sorc's spyglass with BSZ to combo it out. Also I don't think I can share this deck cause the base idea was not initially mine to begin with; I think I need permission first? Not sure.

I like the "win with 20 or less HP remaining"

I didn't like the kill within x turns when I couldn't do it before but now that I can I don't mind it.

I believe, unfortunately, these difficult objectives are necessary to split the leaderboards from all having the same score from easy events. Although luck is involved, it comes down to how well you build your deck to battle against bad luck.

You do realize that these solutions you’re offering include cards that most players don’t have, right? 

Thats the thing about this event, especially in this new Standard — it requires a very elite collection to be successful. 

Other PVE with some time and creativity, even players in their first month can beat the late levels. Not this one.

This event just crushes their souls. 

Haha yeah i can see that - i was there. The 3.2 and 5.2 are truly end game. And even endgame players cant hit it all the time, which i think is fine. Nothing wrong with a little bit of this (if there was a ton, it would be an issue). But i was addressing people (my audience) who i assumed are past new player level and have a decent collection already, as it seems they were looking for solutions. 

As for 5.1 requires 1 key mythic - beckett. The dagger helps but if not it can be reaplced with bodyguard and a "vigilance/reach/defender" blocker (preferably something like ada... something wall so you dont kill the AIs creatures). But be sure to have both creatures with toughness greater than 4 (preferably above 8) in case you get hit by 2 ascended golden demises at once. Life total maintain as close to 20 life as possible to prevent losing from chalice support. And rest would be board control like ixalans binding, bounce to return nontoken supports) maybe even that exile give 3/3 dino support. Terferi would prolly be best for this node with his ultimate. Does this answer your question?

And P.S when i was new i got owned by return of the god-pharoah node 2.1, 2.3, and 3.1. I didn't have the cards. I usually got stuck there. I remember playing matches for 30-60mins, only to lose and then try to come up with another deck for another hour. And repeat until i got lucky. I have spent 6-8 hours playing my games and when i was done a new refresh became available before. It takes effort. This was before being blessed with drake haven cycling. I had to use totem haarteguide, aviary mechanic, cast out combo to barely win... yeah i threw my phone yeah i was upset and angry but i couldnt do anything about it when i was new. I had to grind and build up and now here i am. But i agree soulcrushing... the grind to get here - soulcrushing, frustration prior to grinding to get here - soulcrushing, and now i am here and have to maintain - soulcrushing. 

EDIT: wait maybe it wasn't return of the God pharoah? What was the AKH PvE event? Trial of Zeal? 

HarryMason

For me , the loss of exactly 2 cards turned this event from 'not my favorite' to utterly dreadful. HUF and Imminent Doom . Samut with HUF and some ramp made 5.2 a quick and painless task. ID was great for the nodes that you really didn't want to be playing creatures on . There's always ob for creatureless, but he ain't what he used to be .

Froggy

Terrible event.

I hardly bothered playing. Lost tons of timers, didn’t bother deck building all over again, so lost tons of games and objectives. If D3 don’t care about the player base and the complaints about this event (which they have been getting), then I can’t be bothered to put the effort into it either.

Shame on them.

bk1234

Laeuftbeidir said:

bken1234 said:

jimpark said:

Brakkis said:

I still dislike 3.2, all of 4.x, 5.1 and 5.2

With 3.2 I've never even bothered with the "Take 15 or less damage" objective. The AI can deal that after dropping a single creature the next turn. The entirety of 4.x is just too much of a grind with each of the 3 nodes there feeling like a Bolas slog-fest. As for 5.1, I will never try for the "Win with 20 or less HP remaining" objective either.

As for 5.2 ... I've never liked it. Even with the Immortal Sun or just straight Samut nuking it, it's never been an enjoyable node and I've always felt that its ability to one shot you after cascading out a couple of treasure coves in a row was an asinine ability.

For 5.1, the key is to use admiral beckett to control the board without killing your opponents creatures since stealing counts as killing my own creatures. Also Dowsing dagger and In bolas clutches till you stabilize after low life and can replace it for one his many stack of golems. Easy-peasy.

For 4.1, same deal use admiral beckett, this way when your opponent casts slaughter the strong he can't suicide creatures he doesn't have.

3.2 and 5.2 are luck based but a kiora deck works like a charm - there's your hint. And for 5.2 I recommend sorc's spyglass with BSZ to combo it out. Also I don't think I can share this deck cause the base idea was not initially mine to begin with; I think I need permission first? Not sure.

I like the "win with 20 or less HP remaining"

I didn't like the kill within x turns when I couldn't do it before but now that I can I don't mind it.

I believe, unfortunately, these difficult objectives are necessary to split the leaderboards from all having the same score from easy events. Although luck is involved, it comes down to how well you build your deck to battle against bad luck.

You do realize that these solutions you’re offering include cards that most players don’t have, right? 

Thats the thing about this event, especially in this new Standard — it requires a very elite collection to be successful. 

Other PVE with some time and creativity, even players in their first month can beat the late levels. Not this one.

This event just crushes their souls. 

I

 agree and disagree with you here.

What's the problem with new players not being able to clear endgame content immediately? AM totally crushed me when I was new. Node 3 was the end of the line for me. I didn't complain.. After a while, I managed to win on node 3, and sometimes on 4..that felt good! That's progression! Too bad the event ended then.. But when it returned 9 months ago it was great to see how much I've advanced. And didn't you ask for endgame content as well? 

Before cycling, I can't remember anyone thinking that way. Anyway, that doesn't change at all that this event isn't really fun, but it's the worst event when you have to catch up some refreshes.

You have a point -- however -- at least in the beginning of AM you could get through a couple nodes. 

New players have trouble getting through the second node of B4T. They hit a wall. 

This actually reminds me of something I have been requesting for 2 years -- a pity timer on PvE. While I think it should be a challenge, after so many losses, a player should be reset back to the first encounter of a node. 

They shouldn't play 2 games in the first node and then spend 13 charges losing on the same 5 encounters over and over. At least let them go back and play those first 2 games after 3 or so losses. 

There's a difference between a challenge and programming being specifically designed to make someone feel like a failure -- I love the challenge of moving forward in PvE -- I'm playing it with my alt this week and it's HARD. But I don't love seeing players lose interest in the game because they hit a wall and never have the opportunity to at least feel like they can contribute. 

bk1234

I have a couple other thoughts: 

1. @madwren has a great point. This event was designed to be played with certain cards. As Standard changes, events and objectives should change as well. 

2.  We have asked for a long time for certain events to be added to story mode. This is a great one to add. I learn so much every time I play it and would throroughly enjoy being able to tackle many of these encounters at my leisure. 

nerdstrap

jimpark - Mistcaller (also mythic) only costs 9 and completely shuts down 5.1 and many other battles

bk1234

nerdstrap said:

jimpark - Mistcaller (also mythic) only costs 9 and completely shuts down 5.1 and many other battles

Mistcaller is the clear winner of the weekend. It does so many of the things. 

Thuran

Its painfully obvious this event was not designed with rotation in mind. Many nodes were already tedious and unfun (5.1 is THE WORST! 4.2 having untargeted kill and an objective that says "don't lose creatures" is not much better...).

Many nodes are now just horrible to play, as rotation has taken away the right tools, without proper replacements. 4.2 is made a lot worse when your strongest burn deals 10 DMG...on a node that gains life all the time!!!

Wth  are they expecting us to do once ixl rotates and takes merfolk and dinosaurs with it?!

Aeroplane

bken1234 said:

nerdstrap said:

jimpark - Mistcaller (also mythic) only costs 9 and completely shuts down 5.1 and many other battles

Mistcaller is the clear winner of the weekend. It does so many of the things. 

Haphazard Bombardment and the numerous exile cards were the main cards that nullified some of the harder nodes. Not including the PW skills, the supports in this event are the most annoying. The AI seems to have a lot of creature removal  , but not support destruction.

Tremayne

I did not like the grindiness of the event, but I think events for endgame players is a good thing.

Perhaps there should be some sort of warning on events that are of this type. Of course such an event should be running only with other options for new and midrange players.

dont know how D3 will handle that, but that’s my 2 cents.