Mirror Mirror on the Wall, who is the best planeswalker of them all?

FindingHeart8

In Standard or Legacy?  What do you think?  What's your favorite? 

Also who do you think is the worst planeswalker and why?

Note: This is obviously a moderately subjective thread, as planeswalker usefulness may differ depending on the cards you have and/or playstyle.

FindingHeart8

right now I'm feeling like Teferi is the best for me, but that might just be because I got Luminarch Ascension

Mburn7

Kiora, in standard, legacy, mastery, whatever.

I have yet to find a deck she can't consistently win with, and that includes several auto-fill decks each going 10-0 one week in Legacy Training Grounds because I was bored.

IM_CARLOS

Bolas of course. B1 is a little bit more speed. B2 is more control in endgame of tricky matches.

In Legacy B1 with full Omni machine running. No other PW win that fast consistently. 

Worst... Well a lot of 1C except Koth, Elsbeth, Ob and Garruk. But some bodes are perfect for special pw, long time on the shelf. 

Don't play Origin walker, because they are little outdated and Huatli1 because she was never really good, but maybe there are cards in the future...

HarryMason

In standard, I'm on the fence between Bolas 2 and Karn. Karn is ridiculously versatile and has some very solid abilities. Bolas is just dum. He's like a control deck in a can. I'd also put H2 pretty high on my list . She fuels herself, draws cards and makes mana. Those are the three things I want in a pw and her mana is pretty sweet to boot .

In legacy, kiora is my comfort zone, but I've been into saheeli lately. She makes far better use of stv and I happen to really like supports. 

The worst? Chandra 2. 'Nuff said .

FindingHeart8

Ajani for legacy, because great mana gains, control abilities, and just the perfect number of creature/spell/support slots HoF and Deploy

Brakkis

Explosive ramp (Legacy PvP); Samut - HUF, HoP, Reason, 3 decent creatures. Match is over by Turn 4 at the latest.

Loopy **** (Legacy PvP); Bolas - I never heard what the infinite loop Omni deck was, nor did I face it. I had Omni even. But everyone complains about it. Must be good. I know the ID decks were brutal.

PvE; Karn - Use everything.

Control/Denial;  Teferi - White's control is still solid, blue is broken, and Teferi's ult just ruins the opponent's day.

I haven't really settled on who I like most in Standard PvP. Samut got neutered along with green in general due to a lack of any decent ramp. Vraska's fun for GY shenanigans with PGR. I generally run Teferi in whatever I can and just play historics.

Froggy

I’d go with Kiora.

this thread is strictly speaking about PWs.

Kiora is by far the strongest PW. Her mana gains are great.

Her abilities are awesome - mana gain and steal at the same time, pulling creatures and making almost any creature playable in that same turn, and 32/32 octopi with reach.

Yeah... Hands down the best and most aggressive PW. Her U/G color combo also allows for insanely powerful and versatile decks.

IM_CARLOS

Kiora is great. Benefits from StV, bring her own win condition and have 8 spell slots.

Karn depends on limitation. Unlimited (PVE) a killing machine (best for maxing anyway), but only good inlimited nodes (1-2C). There are better stronger effects and mana gain on pw.

Kiora was queen of the hill for long times from baral to end of cycling (even  before) . Foe now just second choice. 

Theros

in legacy it has to be kiora, she's in a tier of her own. There are also better alternatives than Bola, H2 and refer in legacy.
In standard it no longer kiora due to absence of gem changers. I'd put H2 and Teferi over Bola in standard. The downside of koth is facing another koth in a mirror match, otherwise he's good.
Overall the best for both standard and legacy is Teferi. his abilities makes him effective without the likes of STV, zenith or other strong cards

Tilwin90

Hard for me to decide... I suppose we are discussing regular PVP contexts (cause in PVE it's not fair with Karn being able to access all cards).
Right now my quartet of success walkers is Bolas1 - Huatli2 - Teferi - Bolas2. They cover all needs in all standard events (and almost all legacy events). The fifth is a flex spot that is usually occupied by Kiora, Vraska, Karn or Saheeli (depending on the specific event, and assuming we are not discussing obligatory walkers like Elspeth or Samut).

bk1234

This one was easy. It’s Kiora. She’s timeless and wins consistently in legacy or standard and with any size collection — she is an asset at any skill level. 

The runners up (who can also do the above) are: Ob, H2, Bolas1, Samut, Elspeth and Tefert — these are the generally agreed upon (along with the basic 5) priority PW in ThePower9. 

They are useful in any format and enhance a budget collection. With an elite collection they are almost unstoppable. 

FindingHeart8

I'm very surprised with the number of people saying Kiora as #1 in legacy and standard.

I mean she's good, definitely up there and all...especially because green ramp; but I wouldn't say she's more powerful than Bolas or Ajani.

I'd put Kiora on par with H2, they both seem about as abusable.

I'm open to opposing arguments on this though.  I'll admit I'm a bit biased as blue/green in paper mtg is my absolute least favorite color combo to play with, as I find it to be one of the more restrictive color combinations, both in flexibility and creativity.  Since I got her way back in the day, I've pretty much just used her when events demanded it

Mburn7

FindingHeart8 said:

I'm very surprised with the number of people saying Kiora as #1 in legacy and standard.

I mean she's good, definitely up there and all...especially because green ramp; but I wouldn't say she's more powerful than Bolas or Ajani.

I'd put Kiora on par with H2, they both seem about as abusable.

I'm open to opposing arguments on this though.  I'll admit I'm a bit biased as blue/green in paper mtg is my absolute least favorite color combo to play with, as I find it to be one of the more restrictive color combinations, both in flexibility and creativity.  Since I got her way back in the day, I've pretty much just used her when events demanded it

Its not the ramp that makes her so great (although that is really nice).  Its not even the color combo (although that also works really well in PQ)

What makes Kiora so amazing is her extreme versatility. 
She has such a high cap on spells and supports you can do almost anything you want without worry (unlike almost all of the other walkers)
Also, her abilities are always useful.  No matter what deck you built or what the board state is her abilities always have a use (ok, you do need to have 1 creature in your deck for her second, but that's it)
She's also amazing for events, since her second guarantees that you will complete any annoying summon creature objectives, her 3rd is an instant game-winner, and her first helps stall while you complete other objectives.

FindingHeart8

Mburn7 said:

FindingHeart8 said:

I'm very surprised with the number of people saying Kiora as #1 in legacy and standard.

I mean she's good, definitely up there and all...especially because green ramp; but I wouldn't say she's more powerful than Bolas or Ajani.

I'd put Kiora on par with H2, they both seem about as abusable.

I'm open to opposing arguments on this though.  I'll admit I'm a bit biased as blue/green in paper mtg is my absolute least favorite color combo to play with, as I find it to be one of the more restrictive color combinations, both in flexibility and creativity.  Since I got her way back in the day, I've pretty much just used her when events demanded it

Its not the ramp that makes her so great (although that is really nice).  Its not even the color combo (although that also works really well in PQ)

What makes Kiora so amazing is her extreme versatility. 
She has such a high cap on spells and supports you can do almost anything you want without worry (unlike almost all of the other walkers)
Also, her abilities are always useful.  No matter what deck you built or what the board state is her abilities always have a use (ok, you do need to have 1 creature in your deck for her second, but that's it)
She's also amazing for events, since her second guarantees that you will complete any annoying summon creature objectives, her 3rd is an instant game-winner, and her first helps stall while you complete other objectives.

Ah, a good point.  I didn't think about her spell/support slot versatility, that definitely moves her up a bit in my book.

Still though, you could make a similar argument for Bolas, Ajani, Karn..

babar3355

Are you honestly saying AJ1 is top tier..... I am frankly shocked.  I probably haven't played AJ1 in more than a year.  Mostly because Nahiri runs the HuF/Deploy combination better (because of better mana gains).  And outside that combo, AJ1 is outclassed by at least a dozen walkers..  

Bolas 1 & 2, Karn, Teferi, Kiora, Angrath, H2, Nahiri, SR, Samut, Vraska, and T2...  Arguably even Koth, Elspeth, and Ob are better.

FindingHeart8

haha yeah I'm not saying he's the best, but he's pretty darn good.

His abilities are versatile.  Yeah I lean towards Nahiri if it's a "win in X turns," objective because she's more aggressive.  But AJ1 is all about the control and balance, and still has some of the best mana gains in game.

Nahiri's mana are about even to AJ1.  Yeah, she comes out slightly ahead if you have a board with red/white matches, but behind if you don't.  Additionally, she has no answer for your opponents if you have a board full of blue/black gems.  She, like Koth and Samut, is a gamble.

I'd debate that only the Bolas family, Teferi, Kiora, H2, SR, and T2 can match AJ1, but those are also all PWs I'd consider top tier (or close to).  Of course...this is somewhat contingent on what cards you have.

In legacy, he's the only planeswalker that can pull off an optimized Deploy/HuF without tripping on itself.  I cherish winning my 45 second training grounds matches

babar3355

Fair enough... He does have the most balanced mana in the game outside of SR and Karn.  I just don't play much control. And when I do, I need BLUE!

bk1234

babar3355 said:

Are you honestly saying AJ1 is top tier..... I am frankly shocked.  I probably haven't played AJ1 in more than a year.  Mostly because Nahiri runs the HuF/Deploy combination better (because of better mana gains).  And outside that combo, AJ1 is outclassed by at least a dozen walkers..  

Bolas 1 & 2, Karn, Teferi, Kiora, Angrath, H2, Nahiri, SR, Samut, Vraska, and T2...  Arguably even Koth, Elspeth, and Ob are better.

While I don’t think Aj1 is top tier anymore, I don’t exactly agree with this. He is still my go to for a lot of stuff— and always my go-to over Nahiri. His higher support and spell load outs make him much more versatile, his control abilities allow you to do more with your deck. His mana gains aren’t huge, but they are well distributed and with Gilded Lotus this is a huge benefit. For HUF decks, you can run goggles and pop all of your activate gems at once with his ult. 

Other PW have taken him out of the top tier, but he is still top of the next tier. If you don’t agree, you’re not playing him right. 

FindingHeart8

babar3355 said:

Fair enough... He does have the most balanced mana in the game outside of SR and Karn.  I just don't play much control. And when I do, I need BLUE!

haha I get what you mean.  I don't play much control either.  Unless the deck I'm facing is interesting, the quicker it's over the better.  Since Luminarch Ascension, I've been sticking with Teferi for standard, he does control well too

but apart from her mana gain disadvantage.  Nahiri doesn't have the spell/support/creature slots to run Deploy/HuF effectively.  You either have to choose between replacing your own creatures with more creatures, or not have Deploy activate as many times.  It's clunky at best.  AJ1 doesn't have that issue at all, perfect balance in slots too, making broken AJ1 in legacy almost unmatched.

FindingHeart8

bken1234 said:

babar3355 said:

Are you honestly saying AJ1 is top tier..... I am frankly shocked.  I probably haven't played AJ1 in more than a year.  Mostly because Nahiri runs the HuF/Deploy combination better (because of better mana gains).  And outside that combo, AJ1 is outclassed by at least a dozen walkers..  

Bolas 1 & 2, Karn, Teferi, Kiora, Angrath, H2, Nahiri, SR, Samut, Vraska, and T2...  Arguably even Koth, Elspeth, and Ob are better.

While I don’t think Aj1 is top tier anymore, I don’t exactly agree with this. He is still my go to for a lot of stuff— and always my go-to over Nahiri. His higher support and spell load outs make him much more versatile, his control abilities allow you to do more with your deck. His mana gains aren’t huge, but they are well distributed and with Gilded Lotus this is a huge benefit. For HUF decks, you can run goggles and pop all of your activate gems at once with his ult. 

Other PW have taken him out of the top tier, but he is still top of the next tier. If you don’t agree, you’re not playing him right.