Hoarding: My List of 300 Pulls from the Latest Legends Vault

Daredevil217

Space Dwarf said:

I dont get the love affair with the 4* tier. I just don’t. It doesn’t compare with 5* unless boosted to lvl 450+. At that point, you’re in 5* mmr. To the OP champ Thor & Okoye & don’t look back. Okoye makes all of your toons better. 

You’re talking about power levels which, yes, the 5* tier is WAY stronger. I don’t think anyone is arguing that. When people talk about a love affair with the 4* tier they are talking about it being more diverse, fun and balanced than the 5* tier. The 4* tier naturally has more characters so there are more options. They also have a rotating boost list which varies the amount of viable teams each week and changes up gameplay. 4* are easier to acquire and no one character really shifts the meta like Gambit or Thanos before him.

Once you hit the 5* tier you hit 5* MMR which means you can’t play your 4*, unless like you said, they are near max champed or highly boosted. I mean you could in PVE, but why? And in PVP why would you play anything but the best/fastest meta combo you own?  Anything else slows you down and leaves you open to retals. And heaven forbid you get a run of bad RNG and miss the next meta character and fall behind! Ask 5* players who didn’t have Gambit how that felt. Ask the ones who only have Gambit how they feel now. 

justsing said:

Daredevil217 said:

That’s another thing that makes me weary about the 5* jump. The whole coordinating with others, shield check rooms, making sure it’s okay to hit someone, hopping, not pissing off the wrong person/alliance, having to play enough to keep up with the meta, only 3 characters being viable, etc. 

I like being in a casual alliance, playing when I want, doing my single push to 900, hitting who I want along the way, and not worrying about when my characters are going to get nerfed or made obsolete. 

 I also used to late climb to 900 and shield out, but recently I've decided to try for 1200. In 4* land, it's really really hard to hit 1200 without coordination, and I've found that the whole coordinating and shield checking thing isn't that bad at all. The climb to 900 is kind of like before. I do it in one sitting, but I don't feel any pressure to do it quickly unlike during some of my late climbs. Checking names and alliances before hitting has become a part of my routine since joining my alliance family, so that hasn't changed. Once I get to 900, it then becomes shield hops. Since you're hitting at most 3 people during a shield hop, you have plenty of time to queue them up, and it's not really much effort to double check on LINE that they're shielded before hitting.

This is actually really great to know as one of my fears in eventually moving up is making PVP harder and not easier (as it should be when you get more powerful). Thanks for the info!

Space Dwarf

Take the boost list out of the equation & what do you see?  The same 10 or so top notch 4*. How is that any different from the 5* tier?

bbigler

Bowgentle said:

bbigler said:

Bowgentle said:

bbigler said:

From the comments I've read, it looks like the best way to transition to 5* is very slowly.  Which means that you don't hoard at all, use CP to open Classics and slowly, slowly cover 5*s, while playing 4* Champs with some Max Champed 3*s and some half-covered 5*s.  This would give you the greatest gameplay variety, and isn't that the point of all of this. 

No, that's for people who never, ever want to play at the 5* level.

Is it worth playing at the 5* level if you only have 3 x 5* Champs?

Those 3 Champs will let you champ all the following ones by letting you win more rewards.
Of course it's worth it.

Winning extra rewards from placing top 10 isn't going to "let you champ all the following ones".  It just doesn't add up.  It would still be a slow process to champ more 5*s.

Richyyy

For what it's worth, now that Gambit's out of the way, I find PvP significantly easier at the 5* level. I still join late, because that increases my chances of getting something out of placement rewards, and then the charge to 900 takes under an hour and usually sees a maximum of one hit along the way. I could probably get to 1200 in most of them with a shield hop or two at most.

I moved into the 5* level a little later than I could've done, because I was afraid of being stuck with limited character options as well. But I eventually decided that I was using Grocket/Gamora a vast percentage of the time anyway, so how was it going to make things any worse?

CT1888

bbigler said:

Bowgentle said:

bbigler said:

Bowgentle said:

bbigler said:

From the comments I've read, it looks like the best way to transition to 5* is very slowly.  Which means that you don't hoard at all, use CP to open Classics and slowly, slowly cover 5*s, while playing 4* Champs with some Max Champed 3*s and some half-covered 5*s.  This would give you the greatest gameplay variety, and isn't that the point of all of this. 

No, that's for people who never, ever want to play at the 5* level.

Is it worth playing at the 5* level if you only have 3 x 5* Champs?

Those 3 Champs will let you champ all the following ones by letting you win more rewards.
Of course it's worth it.

Winning extra rewards from placing top 10 isn't going to "let you champ all the following ones".  It just doesn't add up.  It would still be a slow process to champ more 5*s.

It's about hitting 1200.

Since champing Thanos I've been able to reach 1200 most times (except when Gambit ran rampage before I managed to champ him) and I've been able to champ almost every 5* since (I missed Hawkeye because I went back to classics and Archangel), Okoye is 2 short. 

Consistent 1200, top 25/10 (for the 3* churn), faster Pve to progression (so I play it more regularly without losing half my day to it). It all adds up, and it snowballs if you keep on the wheel.

Sure, team selection is way down - for months I played predominantly Panthos in pvp and Pve, then Thanos / DD in both, but now it's opening up. 
When I started, I remember looking at the 4Thor / WXF and wanting to be at the top of the tree, and now I legit feel like I am, which in part is why I'm still here and still have fun.

And for what it's worth, I have never been in a shield room. 

Warbringa

If you primarily play PvE, then level your 5* and don't think twice about it as it makes PvE much easier and faster.  If you are primarily a PvP player, you may wish to stay in 4* land for a bit if you enjoy the variety.  If you do both equally....there is no great answer but I would recommend staying in 4* land if you enjoy it for now and move to 5* land when you start getting bored with your 4*.  

I am mainly PvE and for a long time only had Gambit champed.  With his nerf I champed Thor, who makes PvE a quick exercise.  In PvP though, even if I am just a dabbler and not serious, my only team is Gambit/Thor/required 3* or Gambit/Thor/4* in Shield.  If you move into 5* PvP, your team will basically be Thor/Okoye/required 3* and Thor/Okoye/Gambit (or Loki).  

bbigler

CT1888 said:

It's about hitting 1200.

Since champing Thanos I've been able to reach 1200 most times (except when Gambit ran rampage before I managed to champ him) and I've been able to champ almost every 5* since (I missed Hawkeye because I went back to classics and Archangel), Okoye is 2 short. 

Consistent 1200, top 25/10 (for the 3* churn), faster Pve to progression (so I play it more regularly without losing half my day to it). It all adds up, and it snowballs if you keep on the wheel.

The 1200 points reward is 15 CP.  Big deal.  That's 45 CP per week.  Combine with 3 top 10 placements, and you can pull 2 extra LT per week.  That's still not going to make the difference between champing 5*s or not.  Let's say before champing 5*s, you can pull 11 LT per week, but after champing 3 x 5*s you can pull 13 LT per week.  A new 5* is in the LL pool for 18 weeks.  That adds up to 234 pulls, which is not enough to max cover that 5* before going to Classics. 

Assuming even distribution and 1:7 ratios:
11 LT per week x 18 weeks = 198 pulls => 28 x 5* covers => 9 covers per 5*
13 LT per week x 18 weeks = 234 pulls => 33 x 5* covers => 11 covers per 5*

Even with perfectly even distribution, you still can't champ them before they go to Classics.  You would need to pull at least 15 LT per week just to have a chance to max cover them.  So, unless champing 5*s is going to give you 4+ more LT pulls per week, it won't be enough.

Rockwell75

bbigler said:

Is it worth playing at the 5* level if you only have 3 x 5* Champs?

I think it depends on which 5s.  I'm loving it with only JJ and Thor.  I imagine if your 3 5s were Banner, Wasp and Dr. Oc it wouldn't be as fun.

BlackBoltRocks

bbigler said:

CT1888 said:

It's about hitting 1200.

Since champing Thanos I've been able to reach 1200 most times (except when Gambit ran rampage before I managed to champ him) and I've been able to champ almost every 5* since (I missed Hawkeye because I went back to classics and Archangel), Okoye is 2 short. 

Consistent 1200, top 25/10 (for the 3* churn), faster Pve to progression (so I play it more regularly without losing half my day to it). It all adds up, and it snowballs if you keep on the wheel.

The 1200 points reward is 15 CP.  Big deal.  That's 45 CP per week.  Combine with 3 top 10 placements, and you can pull 2 extra LT per week.  That's still not going to make the difference between champing 5*s or not.  Let's say before champing 5*s, you can pull 11 LT per week, but after champing 3 x 5*s you can pull 13 LT per week.  A new 5* is in the LL pool for 18 weeks.  That adds up to 234 pulls, which is not enough to max cover that 5* before going to Classics. 

Assuming even distribution and 1:7 ratios:
11 LT per week x 18 weeks = 198 pulls => 28 x 5* covers => 9 covers per 5*
13 LT per week x 18 weeks = 234 pulls => 33 x 5* covers => 11 covers per 5*

Even with perfectly even distribution, you still can't champ them before they go to Classics.  You would need to pull at least 15 LT per week just to have a chance to max cover them.  So, unless champing 5*s is going to give you 4+ more LT pulls per week, it won't be enough.

I’ve never hit 1200 in any PvP event, and I’ve champed 10 5* so far. You’re right about the ~15 LTs a week part. For myself, I champed those 10 5* partly because of luck, partly because I’m able to earn the equivalent of 50CP a day. Once you get two or three champed 5*, that target becomes quite easy to reach.

- play full progression in either SCL8 or 9. This includes the 5* essential nodes
- play every PvP to 575
- DDQ (2CP a day adds up, no matter how small it seems. Plus 4* DDQ every five days)
- 2*, 3*, 4* champ rewards
- one LT and 25CP from daily rewards every month

Bonus if your alliance can hit top 100 in the season, and if anyone in your alliance treats you to the odd CP every now and then.

Once again, I did all this without touching 1200 a single time. So its definitely possible.

(If I could swap covers around, I would have at least 17 5* champs.)

bbigler

BlackBoltRocks said:

I’ve never hit 1200 in any PvP event, and I’ve champed 10 5* so far. You’re right about the ~15 LTs a week part. For myself, I champed those 10 5* partly because of luck, partly because I’m able to earn the equivalent of 50CP a day. Once you get two or three champed 5*, that target becomes quite easy to reach.

- play full progression in either SCL8 or 9. This includes the 5* essential nodes
- play every PvP to 575
- DDQ (2CP a day adds up, no matter how small it seems. Plus 4* DDQ every five days)
- 2*, 3*, 4* champ rewards
- one LT and 25CP from daily rewards every month

Bonus if your alliance can hit top 100 in the season, and if anyone in your alliance treats you to the odd CP every now and then.

Once again, I did all this without touching 1200 a single time. So its definitely possible.

(If I could swap covers around, I would have at least 17 5* champs.)

That's helpful to know and what I've been thinking.  I'm predicting that after champing 5*s, I could pull 14 LTs per week, which means that they'll likely go to Classics before getting max covered.  But they'll be close, so I'll have to get "lucky" to get that last cover or two.  Apparently, it can be done without hoarding. 

But I still have the dilemma of never getting Classic 5*s, which are required in PVE.  What if someone wanted to build 5*s by spending CP on Classics and opening LL tokens when they got them?  Hmmmm......

4* Champs Roster => 4 LL pulls and 9 Classic Pulls per week for 18 weeks:
 = 72 LL pulls => 10 x 5* covers => about 3 per character
= 162 Classic pulls => 23 x 5* covers => about 1 per character
PLUS add in some 5* covers from 4* Champ rewards........

After about 4 years you can start champing 5*s!

BlackBoltRocks

The irony is that it did take me four years to champ a 5*. I started playing in Oct 2013; I champed Surfer in Sep 2017. Albeit 5* had only been in the game for two years at that point. I estimate it would take the average player (like myself) around two years to champ their first 5*.

Oh, and spending CP on Classics? One will never get a champed 5* that way, given the dilution. (Unless you’re incredibly lucky, like me. My Bolt was at 4/4/4; I pulled a Latest LT, which got me Loki, and a Bonus Bolt to finish him at 4/5/4. A few days later, a Classic LT got me Bolt Green to put him at lv451.) Or if one is somehow able to get ~300 Latest Legendary Tokens for the 18 weeks or so that a 5* is in Latests.

Daredevil217

bbigler said:

That's helpful to know and what I've been thinking.  I'm predicting that after champing 5*s, I could pull 14 LTs per week, which means that they'll likely go to Classics before getting max covered.  But they'll be close, so I'll have to get "lucky" to get that last cover or two. 

I mean there’s also the special stores when a new 5* is released. They are often paired with two classics and you can get them that way. Hoping Thanos comes around soon and isn’t paired with Thor (definitely don’t want Thor as your highest 5*)

tiomono

Bowgentle said:

bbigler said:

From the comments I've read, it looks like the best way to transition to 5* is very slowly.  Which means that you don't hoard at all, use CP to open Classics and slowly, slowly cover 5*s, while playing 4* Champs with some Max Champed 3*s and some half-covered 5*s.  This would give you the greatest gameplay variety, and isn't that the point of all of this. 

No, that's for people who never, ever want to play at the 5* level.

I honestly do not understand this viewpoint. Dilution is rough, yes. However to tell people they will never play at the 5* level if they open as they receive tokens or cp is exaggerated at best and a lie at worst. 

I only pull classics with my cp. Once I hit 20 I open a token. I have daredevil champed, and have 4 more characters sitting at 11 or 12 covers. Yes the progress is slow. But guess what, it's still progress. The 5* transition is not some impossible to climb wall that is only solved by hoarding. 

I only play to progression on story, I play to the 10 command points in versus. I am casual in the sense that I do not ever push for top placements. Yet somehow I am still growing my 5* roster to useable levels. Largely because, the 5* transition is not some impossible to climb wall that is only solved by hoarding. 

Play how you want, if you are earning decent amounts of cp you will eventually get to the 5* tier or you can enjoy your higher leveled 4* characters until you are ready to level your 5*'s.

TLDR: The 5* transition is not some impossible to climb wall that is only solved by hoarding.

Update: I just got a lumbercap yellow putting me at 1 5* champ, 3 5* at 12 covers, and 2 at 11 covers.

Daredevil217

It’s the same as the 4* transition with and without dilution. Before vaulting I was slowly bringing all of my 4* up. I actually liked this as no one was locked out or “left behind” and I knew eventually I’d transition and when I did I’d have a broader selection of characters. 

Then vaulting happened and we were covering characters faster than we could champ them. It was a crazy 180 and in my opinion an over correction. We of course had the perfect solution of the 50/50 split and that was taken a way for reasons not explained. 

The point is, with massive dilution in either tier you can still incrementally improve your roster. But each new character takes longer to get than the one before as the pool gets more diluted. Hoarding and pulling Latests is essentially paying a vaulting tax and allowing yourself to fish from a smaller pond. While I’m sure you can transition (and I don’t condsider a single champed DD being fully transitioned), it’s much much faster when doing so with vaulting. 

Dougfresh413

I realized I never came back and posted my thoughts on this.  I appreciate everyone’s input (Daredevil217, Bbigler, Borstock, Shardwick, Abominatrix, Justsing, Richyyy, CT1888, Warbringa, BlackBoltRocks, Tiomono, etc).  I found your comments helpful in my decision of how to move forward.   I currently play SCL9 to progression in PVE and play PVP to either 575 or 900 pts (depends if I want the 4* cover).  Champing my 5* would have one positive and one negative impact on gameplay from my point of view.  From people’s comments, it sounds as if PVE moves a lot faster if using champed 5*.   That is very enticing as I have a lot of RL things going on (family, job, etc).  On the other hand, once you champ your 5* you will only use them in combination with the required character in PVP while the rest of your roster becomes useless.   I will definitely move to the 5* tier, just not at the moment.  Here is what I am thinking…

It has been 7 weeks since I dropped my hoard and I have begun hoarding again.   I started hoarding again because I fully covered Okoye, Wasp, and Loki when I dropped my original hoard.  I do not plan to draw another LT until all three have left latest.  At that point, I will likely be close to having 300 pulls again.  I am currently sitting on 1700 cp and 57 LTs (125 total pulls).  My plan is to wait until Kitty Pryde is about to leave latest and determine if I want to try for her, Cable, and the next 5* released or if I think the 5* after next is better than Kitty then I would wait for her to leave latest as well.   My goal would be to cover all 3 of the latest and hopefully as I finish building up my hoard I can finish covering Thanos and OML (only need 1 or 2 for each).  At that point I would have 7 different 5* that I could champ, which gives me a little of the variety I’m looking for.  In the meantime, I think I will softcap my 5* at level 350 so they are usable with my 4* characters.  I will also level all my 4* to 209 so I can always compete in the shield training.  That was a great tip by Shardwick.  Ultimately, I plan to champ all the 4*.   The recent discussion titled “What to do with regular iso” gives me hope that it is possible to champ everyone in the game.  It will take me considerable time to get there, but I’m going to try and do it.   I’m in this for the long haul (on day 1827 of daily supply).   Which 4* would you champ first from the list below?  I could champ 5 of them today, which 5 would you choose?  Does anyone think any characters in the list will be a top tier 4*?

 

Kraven the Hunter

Mr. Fantastic

Sam Wilson

Lockjaw

Nico Minoru

Shuri

Spider-Man Infinity War

Agent Venom

Venom Eddie Brock

Drax

Miles Morales

Wiccan

Jubilee

Black Panther

Dazzler

Nebula

Taskmaster

gravel

Dougfresh413 said:

 
Which 4* would you champ first from the list below?  I could champ 5 of them today, which 5 would you choose?

None are top tier, and none are vital to progress once you move in to the 5* tier.  I would go with most extra covers saved, followed by 5* feeders (Shuri, Iron Spidey, BP).  In terms of utility, there are several niche characters there.  Kraven as an anti-R&G, Mr. F in special 4* teams, Miles to pair with Spider-Gwen and/or 5* Peter.  Agent Venom is probably the best on that list when boosted in my opinion.

CT1888

No-one screams top tier to me, though Agent Venom is fun and brutal when boosted. Shuri and Black Panther make a fun team. Spiderman and Miles make a fun Spiderverse team with Gwen.

Others can speak for the rest, though a lot just seem niche. 

Borstock

I don't know what counts as top tier 4*, but Agent Venom is a bad donkey. 

Quebbster

Daredevil217 said:

That’s another thing that makes me weary about the 5* jump. The whole coordinating with others, shield check rooms, making sure it’s okay to hit someone, hopping, not pissing off the wrong person/alliance, having to play enough to keep up with the meta, only 3 characters being viable, etc. 

I like being in a casual alliance, playing when I want, doing my single push to 900, hitting who I want along the way, and not worrying about when my characters are going to get nerfed or made obsolete. 

I agree with with the above that you should think about what’s important and make your decisions accordingly. I personally like the slow and steady approach because you can always move up but never back down. I’ve invested sooo much time in this game and enjoy it so much I’d hate to jump into the 5* tier full bore and get burnt out because I’m playing the same two characters and end up leaving altogether. I’m sure this wouldn’t happen for awhile and there’d be a honeymoon stage, but eventually I imagkne Thorkoye gets tedious. For others it may be the lengthier clear times that come with not having a 5* roster that leads to burnout? Just think about what’s important to you. 

Some of those concerns at least only become a problem if you let them. I was hitting 1200+ each PvP without any sort of coordination years ago. My performance absolutely improved after I started coordinating, but the main effect is that I get better placement awards these days - if I just wanted to hit 1200 and shield out like in the old days I could do that without any coordination. I heard a rumor I ended up on a "Kill on Sight" list at that time but eh... I already knew I had to be fast when I hopped, it changed nothing.

And this is hitting 1200, mind you. Hitting 900 was easy even then. 1200 was a little trickier, sometimes I would fail if the shard was dry and I couldn't find decent queues, but more often than not I got all the progression rewards. It helps that the active slices had the most convenient end times for me though.