Kiora or Saheeli or Dovin or Nissa3?

SinisterOne
SinisterOne Posts: 47 Just Dropped In
in MtGPQ General Discussion
Later this week I will have enough Crystals to get a two color walker and I'm wanting to collect all the blue-x walkers first. I have Teferi and Tezzeret2 already but I can't decide if which of the other four to get. I am leaning towards Kiora or Saheeli because I believe they are the best two of these four although Nisss3 and Dovin are somewhat enticing also. I have a solid base of cards in each color and I have ideas for decks for each but I'm still unable to choose. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. 
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Comments

  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    Kiora. She is a staple at all levels of play. 
  • WiLDRAGE
    WiLDRAGE Posts: 145 Tile Toppler
    edited August 2018
    Since you have Teferi, I wouldn't bother with Dovin.  He doesn't bring anything Teferi can't do better.

    Kiora and Saheeli are both solid choices that have different pros/cons.  Kiora has better planeswalker abilities whereas Saheeli has better mana gains.  If you are looking at getting these for standard events, I'd say Green is better than Red right now because red spells are pretty poor currently while the creatures are fairly even between the two.
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    WiLDRAGE said:
    Since you have Teferi, I wouldn't bother with Dovin.  He doesn't bring anything Teferi can't do better.

    Kiora and Saheeli are both solid choices that have different pros/cons.  Kiora has better planeswalker abilities whereas Saheeli has better mana gains.  If you are looking at getting these for standard events, I'd say Green is better than Red right now because red spells are pretty poor currently while the creatures are fairly even between the two.
    I would tend to disagree that green is better than red at the moment. In the current meta, support destruction is critical. Red’s access to support destruction far exceeds green’s. Additionally, Jaya’s Immolating burn spell is one of the better pieces of non-black removal.

    Also, Sai is excellent and fits super well into Saheelie. In the current meta, I run Saheelie far more often than Kiora, and with less mythics.

    That being said, Muldrotha+Invocation+Djinn+StV is filthy, so if you have it I say ball out with Kiora.
  • SinisterOne
    SinisterOne Posts: 47 Just Dropped In
    I have noticed I do run into Kiora more that Saheeli in TG and any PVP event. 

    I agree that Red has better support destruction in Standard but hasn't it always or almost always? Red has always had Demolish and it is one of the best spells at support destruction, but I really don't want to choose based on just that information. 

    I know Sai has great synergy with Saheeli and her first ability and TSN which I don't have yet and red has a good bit of "lose a reinforcement" cards that would or could be fun with Sai and TSN. Then again the Saprolings of green would work good with the blue creature that gives tokens unblockable. That would be interesting with gem converters and Roil also. 

    So, between Saheeli which can be a decently aggressive deck and Kiora that tends to almost always lean toward control. I'll have to see which one I could assemble the better deck with before I finally decide.
  • Brakkis
    Brakkis Posts: 777 Critical Contributor
    edited August 2018
    DumasAG said:
    I would tend to disagree that green is better than red at the moment. In the current meta, support destruction is critical. Red’s access to support destruction far exceeds green's.

    It's also mostly bugged in any event featuring an infinite support. Green's is not. Fewer yes, but at least they'll do their job.
  • TomB
    TomB Posts: 269 Mover and Shaker
    You can't really go wrong with either Saheeli or Kiora, I think. It really depends on your style of play, and your red collection vs. your green collection. But both are awesome... :)
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,090 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'd go Kiora and then Saheeli
  • khurram
    khurram Posts: 1,090 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'd go Kiora and then Saheeli
  • SinisterOne
    SinisterOne Posts: 47 Just Dropped In
    edited August 2018
    I wonder how well oath of Teferi and Grunn interact...

    Of course Grunn being the lone creature in the deck.

    And if he'd keep any nonsupport buffs when exiled.
  • Tilwin90
    Tilwin90 Posts: 662 Critical Contributor
    Buffs are erased by Oath of Teferi. Playing it with Tishana for instance is useful for drawing cards but not for pumping Tishana. Example of interaction:

    1) Play Tishana, draw a card. You have 3 cards in hand, Tishana becomes a 7/7.
    ....
    2) Play Tishana again, draw two cards this time. You have 5 cards in hand, Tishana becomes 7/7 + +1/+1 + +10/+10 = 18/18
    ....
    3) Play Oath of Teferi. End of Turn Tishana is exiled then returns to the battlefield together with its reinforcement as a 2/2. Effect triggers, drawing a card, and say having 6 cards in hand. That's 2/2 + +12/+12 = 14/14

    ---------------------

    Back to topic, I recommend Kiora not only because she is highly flexible and can work incredibly well with Origins cards, but also because right now blue is the most powerful color in standard. It has card advantage, unconditional cheap removal, best global sweeper, ramp and a few powerful creatures (though green's are generally scarier). Her abilities are also incredibly useful, her first is never a dead ability, her second can fish expensive creatures like a pro, and her ultimate is most often a game ender.

    Compared to her
    - Dovin is inferior to Teferi and is not worth the investment. His abilities are parasitic and his mana gains are super meh.
    - Nissa3 has nothing on Kiora. I know cycling decks used to love her and she still falls in the same great color combination as Kiora, but the +1 on green when compared to Kiora does not compensate the inferior abilities.
    - Saheeli is alright and I find use for her in SOME events, but here I think of Bolas1 and Bolas2 as being vastly superior. Once again, if you just want to invest in yet another blue planeswalker she's a fine option, and her mana gains are stellar, but her abilities are rather mediocre (except some rare cases and key cards that will soon rotate where her ultimate can make the difference).
  • Froggy
    Froggy Posts: 511 Critical Contributor
    edited August 2018
    Kiora.

    Mana advantage with her first - gain for you and drain of opponent’s mana.

    Creature pull and huge mana given to it with her second - very useful.

    Massive defender with her third. If you can give it haste (Samut), that’s minimally 32 guaranteed damage (64 if you hit an activated gem with Samut our).

    But there are tons of other builds. And the U/G color combo makes her dangerously powerful.

    Cheers.

    EDIT:

    I hadn’t read the Oath of Teferi comments till later. I couldn’t help mentioning the best combo with that card is Verdant Sun’s Avatar, Djinn of Wishes (you get 3 more wishes each time Oath hits him) and Oath.

    Throw in Scapeshift and Rupture Spire.

    The combo is just gross in a Kiora deck.
  • HarryMason
    HarryMason Posts: 136 Tile Toppler
    Someone said that dovin doesn't do anything that tef can't do better. That's half true. He really doesn't do anything at all . He can make some mana or some energy .Sweet sweet energy . 

    On a serious note , n3 is equally useless now. She's kiora colors , and in very rare occasions, I'll use her because I want a second kiora, but that always feels weird . Kiora is a beast ,and I think saheeli is pretty solid . Though with 2 bolys in the game, you have plenty access to the colors, just with different mana 
  • SinisterOne
    SinisterOne Posts: 47 Just Dropped In
    I've just noticed that between the 55 Crystals from the daily and the Crystals from Gatewatch event I will have the 850 for Bolas1 very soon would it be better to wait the extra day or two and get Bolas1 or get Kiora ASAP? If I go the Kiora route I'd be able to get a strong Monocolored Planeswalker a few days later such as Koth or Elspeth. But getting Bolas really soon might be better... I know hit first ability is powerful but he takes forever to level. I'll have over 800 tonight after getting the 55 from daily log in and TG. (I'll be at 810) then 2-3 more TGs and the Gatewatch progression rewards will put me at or above 900. 
  • DumasAG
    DumasAG Posts: 719 Critical Contributor
    SinisterOne said:
    I've just noticed that between the 55 Crystals from the daily and the Crystals from Gatewatch event I will have the 850 for Bolas1 very soon would it be better to wait the extra day or two and get Bolas1 or get Kiora ASAP? If I go the Kiora route I'd be able to get a strong Monocolored Planeswalker a few days later such as Koth or Elspeth. But getting Bolas really soon might be better... I know hit first ability is powerful but he takes forever to level. I'll have over 800 tonight after getting the 55 from daily log in and TG. (I'll be at 810) then 2-3 more TGs and the Gatewatch progression rewards will put me at or above 900. 
    Bolas is very, very, very good. If you have the runes, or the patience, I'd get Bolas.
  • Grixis197
    Grixis197 Posts: 188 Tile Toppler
    Oh Kiora for sure, Saheeli and Dovin 2nd choice
  • SinisterOne
    SinisterOne Posts: 47 Just Dropped In
    I might just go ahead and buy enough Crystals to get Kiora and Bolas1. They are both top tier walkers and if I'll have 900+ by the time they are in the vault the 500 Crystals would boost me almost high enough for both..  but I do believe Kiora and Bolas1 would be the best investment for this week. I can get Saheeli later. Dovin and N3 can definitely wait.
  • bk1234
    bk1234 Posts: 2,924 Chairperson of the Boards
    SinisterOne said:
    I might just go ahead and buy enough Crystals to get Kiora and Bolas1. They are both top tier walkers and if I'll have 900+ by the time they are in the vault the 500 Crystals would boost me almost high enough for both..  but I do believe Kiora and Bolas1 would be the best investment for this week. I can get Saheeli later. Dovin and N3 can definitely wait.
    I think this is a very wise choice and will take your game to a new level. 
  • Avahad
    Avahad Posts: 296 Mover and Shaker
    I would buy Kiora now but wait for bolas2 over bolas1 - imo he is far more versatile- and at high enough level can completely shutdown the opponent.
  • MiyagiDojo
    MiyagiDojo Posts: 24 Just Dropped In
    I bought Kiora last month and don't regret. Her 3 abilities are all insane and she's very fun to play.
  • Mburn7
    Mburn7 Posts: 3,427 Chairperson of the Boards
    MiyagiDojo said:
    I bought Kiora last month and don't regret. Her 3 abilities are all insane and she's very fun to play.
    Kiora is still hands-down the best planeswalker in the game.  Her mana gains are solid, and her abilities and deckbuilding constraints can fit literally any deck you could possibly think of. 

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