A funny thing happened on the way to D3 Go! Forums....

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  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    broll said:
    Colognoisseur said:
    The Discord crew of devs and D3 go there because it is nicer and easier; no one challenges them or more precisely is allowed to. It's not better or worse it just is what it is.

    This is demonstratively untrue.  I've seen (and been instigator of) many direct challenges to the devs on discord.  I agree to the nicer and easier but not that no one challenges them.  This is completely and utterly false.  Just because something is nice doesn't mean crtizism and challenge don't exist in them.

    A good example is the day the save/cover trade was change from 5 to 3 for 5*s.  A number of people including myself and Hendros where in there raising a ruckus about how changing the trade was fine, but having bank as low as 3 was really bad for players.  I flat out accused them intentionally giving players what they asked for when the knew it would benefit the devs more than the players (I'm not proud of that).  Ice explained to me that I was wrong and they were simply trying to respond quickly to strong player backlash.  He said they would look at some of Hendross' graphs and have a meeting about it.  Not sure if the save 50-100 covers idea came from that meeting or was planned all along, but yeah there was challenge.

    I can think of at least 3 or 4 other instances like this that I was directly apart of and certainly don' go there daily.

    Now there is a lot of just general water cooler talk even more than game related stuff, but that doesn't mean they are never challenged there.

    If you really want to get down to it.  I've seen more threads closed or deleted by mods here than people ever silenced on discord.  There is a certain majority rules mob mentality were if someone crosses the line the discord regulars get on them, but I'm not aware of them being banned, muted, blocked, or their comments being removed.  
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    broll said:
    Spudgutter said:
    broll said:
    The more I read this thread the more I fear the following is going to happen.

    Brigby reads this and reports it up the D3 chain.
    D3 comes to Demi and says what gives and bans them going to Discord.
    They don't increase going here.
    Communication get's worse than it is already.

    They aren't obligated to communicate at all.  Stop looking a gift horse in the mouth and take the morsels we get before they decide to just take their ball and go home.  Would I prefer they come here?  Yes.  But it hasn't happen in the 2.5 years I've been playing, I really don't expect it to change.
    ??????

    You were commenting in the April Q&A thread.  They do sometimes communicate with us.  You were there
    Outside of that one isolated incident when has it happened other than whoever the community manager and Tombstone?  There have been a few, but certainly not to the extent people are asking for.  The very fact that they tried to do it again and they couldn't get it going for more than a few weeks?  A month most, only further proves my point.
    Well, your post said it hasn't happened, when it actually did.  That doesn't exactly prove your point lol.  You want to make the point that it is rare, sure.  But we are discussing that we want to see more of it.  Reaffirming that they don't already is not the best argument.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    tiomono said:

    This is the official forums. If some people are too far out of line like personally attacking others (including the devs)  then the responsibility is on the mods to shut that down. People can be quickly moderated for bad mouthing other players but it often feels like there is no moderation when people call the devs all manner of things. 
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
    Maybe i am not in the right threads, but i dont recall seeing instances of the devs being called "all manner of things," or it getting ugly.  People keep saying variations of this theme as a reason for the devs not to be here, but i never see it, or just dont recall it.  Can someone do me a favor?  Provide an example or three, where someone was egregiously bad, without being moderated? 
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:

    This is the official forums. If some people are too far out of line like personally attacking others (including the devs)  then the responsibility is on the mods to shut that down. People can be quickly moderated for bad mouthing other players but it often feels like there is no moderation when people call the devs all manner of things. 
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
    Maybe i am not in the right threads, but i dont recall seeing instances of the devs being called "all manner of things," or it getting ugly.  People keep saying variations of this theme as a reason for the devs not to be here, but i never see it, or just dont recall it.  Can someone do me a favor?  Provide an example or three, where someone was egregiously bad, without being moderated? 
    Incompetent, clueless, and moneygrabbing all come to mind quickly. I could check any topic on supports and probably find any one of them pretty easy if you want examples.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    tiomono said:
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:

    This is the official forums. If some people are too far out of line like personally attacking others (including the devs)  then the responsibility is on the mods to shut that down. People can be quickly moderated for bad mouthing other players but it often feels like there is no moderation when people call the devs all manner of things. 
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
    Maybe i am not in the right threads, but i dont recall seeing instances of the devs being called "all manner of things," or it getting ugly.  People keep saying variations of this theme as a reason for the devs not to be here, but i never see it, or just dont recall it.  Can someone do me a favor?  Provide an example or three, where someone was egregiously bad, without being moderated? 
    Incompetent, clueless, and moneygrabbing all come to mind quickly. I could check any topic on supports and probably find any one of them pretty easy if you want examples.
    Sure, let's see them.  Since the mods are usually pretty good at stopping name-calling, i would love to be proven wrong.  Again though, one instance is not a pattern.  If a new account is created, and they get jailed or banned, that actually proves my point, right?
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:

    This is the official forums. If some people are too far out of line like personally attacking others (including the devs)  then the responsibility is on the mods to shut that down. People can be quickly moderated for bad mouthing other players but it often feels like there is no moderation when people call the devs all manner of things. 
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
    Maybe i am not in the right threads, but i dont recall seeing instances of the devs being called "all manner of things," or it getting ugly.  People keep saying variations of this theme as a reason for the devs not to be here, but i never see it, or just dont recall it.  Can someone do me a favor?  Provide an example or three, where someone was egregiously bad, without being moderated? 
    You’ll have to excuse me and maybe I mis spoke but I said I “feel” like it gets ugly here. Which in turn is why I said it is hard to explain. 

    The tone of the forums just seems predominantly negative outside of specific threads/posters. 

    I stay in the Good, Bad, Soso moments of the day thread and maybe the Crash threads. I do read the weekly update threads as they tend to be a good time too. Anything like shield training, feeder updates, or supports I stay away from like the plague.
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:

    This is the official forums. If some people are too far out of line like personally attacking others (including the devs)  then the responsibility is on the mods to shut that down. People can be quickly moderated for bad mouthing other players but it often feels like there is no moderation when people call the devs all manner of things. 
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
    Maybe i am not in the right threads, but i dont recall seeing instances of the devs being called "all manner of things," or it getting ugly.  People keep saying variations of this theme as a reason for the devs not to be here, but i never see it, or just dont recall it.  Can someone do me a favor?  Provide an example or three, where someone was egregiously bad, without being moderated? 
    You’ll have to excuse me and maybe I mis spoke but I said I “feel” like it gets ugly here. Which in turn is why I said it is hard to explain. 

    The tone of the forums just seems predominantly negative outside of specific threads/posters. 

    I stay in the Good, Bad, Soso moments of the day thread and maybe the Crash threads. I do read the weekly update threads as they tend to be a good time too. Anything like shield training, feeder updates, or supports I stay away from like the plague.
    Players are not happy. Their voice is not being heard here.  What would you except?  Rainbows and unicorns?   

    I started this thread to show that on another D3Go! Property that they are doing exactly what myself, Colog and others have been asking for many times over the years.  Why can we not get the same thing? 
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    The rockett said:
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:

    This is the official forums. If some people are too far out of line like personally attacking others (including the devs)  then the responsibility is on the mods to shut that down. People can be quickly moderated for bad mouthing other players but it often feels like there is no moderation when people call the devs all manner of things. 
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
    Maybe i am not in the right threads, but i dont recall seeing instances of the devs being called "all manner of things," or it getting ugly.  People keep saying variations of this theme as a reason for the devs not to be here, but i never see it, or just dont recall it.  Can someone do me a favor?  Provide an example or three, where someone was egregiously bad, without being moderated? 
    You’ll have to excuse me and maybe I mis spoke but I said I “feel” like it gets ugly here. Which in turn is why I said it is hard to explain. 

    The tone of the forums just seems predominantly negative outside of specific threads/posters. 

    I stay in the Good, Bad, Soso moments of the day thread and maybe the Crash threads. I do read the weekly update threads as they tend to be a good time too. Anything like shield training, feeder updates, or supports I stay away from like the plague.
    Players are not happy. Their voice is not being heard here.  What would you except?  Rainbows and unicorns?   

    I started this thread to show that on another D3Go! Property that they are doing exactly what myself, Colog and others have been asking for many times over the years.  Why can we not get the osame thing? 
    No rainbows and unicorns expected......just replies like I received. I also don’t recall saying that the forum shouldn’t expect consistent communication from the dev team, I just posted that I agreed that the forum is in general a pretty negative place.
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:

    This is the official forums. If some people are too far out of line like personally attacking others (including the devs)  then the responsibility is on the mods to shut that down. People can be quickly moderated for bad mouthing other players but it often feels like there is no moderation when people call the devs all manner of things. 
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
    Maybe i am not in the right threads, but i dont recall seeing instances of the devs being called "all manner of things," or it getting ugly.  People keep saying variations of this theme as a reason for the devs not to be here, but i never see it, or just dont recall it.  Can someone do me a favor?  Provide an example or three, where someone was egregiously bad, without being moderated? 
    You’ll have to excuse me and maybe I mis spoke but I said I “feel” like it gets ugly here. Which in turn is why I said it is hard to explain. 

    The tone of the forums just seems predominantly negative outside of specific threads/posters. 

    I stay in the Good, Bad, Soso moments of the day thread and maybe the Crash threads. I do read the weekly update threads as they tend to be a good time too. Anything like shield training, feeder updates, or supports I stay away from like the plague.
    sure, but i am here to challenge that misconception.  That is the way you feel, ok, but why?  

    in the context of OP, "people" say things like that, as a reason why they think devs might stay away from here.  i would just love someone to show me how they come to that conclusion
  • BigSoftieFF
    BigSoftieFF Posts: 454 Mover and Shaker
    Spudgutter said:
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:

    This is the official forums. If some people are too far out of line like personally attacking others (including the devs)  then the responsibility is on the mods to shut that down. People can be quickly moderated for bad mouthing other players but it often feels like there is no moderation when people call the devs all manner of things. 
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
    Maybe i am not in the right threads, but i dont recall seeing instances of the devs being called "all manner of things," or it getting ugly.  People keep saying variations of this theme as a reason for the devs not to be here, but i never see it, or just dont recall it.  Can someone do me a favor?  Provide an example or three, where someone was egregiously bad, without being moderated? 
    You’ll have to excuse me and maybe I mis spoke but I said I “feel” like it gets ugly here. Which in turn is why I said it is hard to explain. 

    The tone of the forums just seems predominantly negative outside of specific threads/posters. 

    I stay in the Good, Bad, Soso moments of the day thread and maybe the Crash threads. I do read the weekly update threads as they tend to be a good time too. Anything like shield training, feeder updates, or supports I stay away from like the plague.
    sure, but i am here to challenge that misconception.  That is the way you feel, ok, but why?  

    in the context of OP, "people" say things like that, as a reason why they think devs might stay away from here.  i would just love someone to show me how they come to that conclusion
    I tried to do that by pointing out specific threads that I stay away from that make me feel this way. I’m not a multiquoting, thread and post linking wizard so I though that would be the best way to communicate lol.

    I do want to clarify that I am with you all in this. I wish there was more communication on the forums as well and hope that it changes in the future. I just know that if I was a dev, the general tone of the board would turn me off too.
  • Hadronic
    Hadronic Posts: 338 Mover and Shaker
    broll said:

    A good example is the day the save/cover trade was change from 5 to 3 for 5*s.  A number of people including myself and Hendros where in there raising a ruckus about how changing the trade was fine, but having bank as low as 3 was really bad for players.  I flat out accused them intentionally giving players what they asked for when the knew it would benefit the devs more than the players (I'm not proud of that).  Ice explained to me that I was wrong and they were simply trying to respond quickly to strong player backlash.  He said they would look at some of Hendross' graphs and have a meeting about it.  Not sure if the save 50-100 covers idea came from that meeting or was planned all along, but yeah there was challenge.

    Those were my plots and I like to think we played a big role in the greatest feature added to this game in a long time.
  • Pr0spect0r
    Pr0spect0r Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
    It feels like a cliche highschool.

    Devs and whoever posts the relevant info on the forums. We dissect it and ask questions they shrug and wave bye. Then they go sit at the cool kids table and chat with them. One of the cool kids talks with the rest of us about what they talked about over there so we aren't left out cuz we still on the same team.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    I have a suggestion (and no I'm not volunteering for this duty lol).

    What if one of the regular Discordians would do a daily or weekly compilation of key things said by the devs on discord and post it here?  They could also read some of the comments and relay it back there?  Not sure if anyone would be willing to make that time commitment or not, but it's something that might help some of these issues.
  • tiomono
    tiomono Posts: 1,654 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:

    This is the official forums. If some people are too far out of line like personally attacking others (including the devs)  then the responsibility is on the mods to shut that down. People can be quickly moderated for bad mouthing other players but it often feels like there is no moderation when people call the devs all manner of things. 
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
    Maybe i am not in the right threads, but i dont recall seeing instances of the devs being called "all manner of things," or it getting ugly.  People keep saying variations of this theme as a reason for the devs not to be here, but i never see it, or just dont recall it.  Can someone do me a favor?  Provide an example or three, where someone was egregiously bad, without being moderated? 
    Incompetent, clueless, and moneygrabbing all come to mind quickly. I could check any topic on supports and probably find any one of them pretty easy if you want examples.
    Sure, let's see them.  Since the mods are usually pretty good at stopping name-calling, i would love to be proven wrong.  Again though, one instance is not a pattern.  If a new account is created, and they get jailed or banned, that actually proves my point, right?
    So it is harder to find any recent ones lol. There were a few mostly around the time of the announcements for Gambit getting changed and supports being introduced. The more recent support threads are just spiraling into apathy.

    So if it is happening less than i think or the mods are doing a good job then there is no point in people saying the devs are not here because of harrasment from players. Which brings us right back to why are they not here more than they are on a third party program?
  • Spudgutter
    Spudgutter Posts: 743 Critical Contributor
    tiomono said:
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:

    This is the official forums. If some people are too far out of line like personally attacking others (including the devs)  then the responsibility is on the mods to shut that down. People can be quickly moderated for bad mouthing other players but it often feels like there is no moderation when people call the devs all manner of things. 
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
    Maybe i am not in the right threads, but i dont recall seeing instances of the devs being called "all manner of things," or it getting ugly.  People keep saying variations of this theme as a reason for the devs not to be here, but i never see it, or just dont recall it.  Can someone do me a favor?  Provide an example or three, where someone was egregiously bad, without being moderated? 
    Incompetent, clueless, and moneygrabbing all come to mind quickly. I could check any topic on supports and probably find any one of them pretty easy if you want examples.
    Sure, let's see them.  Since the mods are usually pretty good at stopping name-calling, i would love to be proven wrong.  Again though, one instance is not a pattern.  If a new account is created, and they get jailed or banned, that actually proves my point, right?
    So it is harder to find any recent ones lol. There were a few mostly around the time of the announcements for Gambit getting changed and supports being introduced. The more recent support threads are just spiraling into apathy.

    So if it is happening less than i think or the mods are doing a good job then there is no point in people saying the devs are not here because of harrasment from players. Which brings us right back to why are they not here more than they are on a third party program?
    My point exactly. Instead, we have a thread about lack of communication having *zero* communication from them.  Not even a token "hey, we hear you and will look into it."
  • The rockett
    The rockett Posts: 2,016 Chairperson of the Boards
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:
    Spudgutter said:
    tiomono said:

    This is the official forums. If some people are too far out of line like personally attacking others (including the devs)  then the responsibility is on the mods to shut that down. People can be quickly moderated for bad mouthing other players but it often feels like there is no moderation when people call the devs all manner of things. 
    BigSoftieFF said:
    Can’t agree with this more. I’m on Discord quite a bit and have seen the devs challenged many times. It never seems to get really ugly though like I feel it does here. I can’t explain it but I feel the sense of actual community is better there.
    Maybe i am not in the right threads, but i dont recall seeing instances of the devs being called "all manner of things," or it getting ugly.  People keep saying variations of this theme as a reason for the devs not to be here, but i never see it, or just dont recall it.  Can someone do me a favor?  Provide an example or three, where someone was egregiously bad, without being moderated? 
    Incompetent, clueless, and moneygrabbing all come to mind quickly. I could check any topic on supports and probably find any one of them pretty easy if you want examples.
    Sure, let's see them.  Since the mods are usually pretty good at stopping name-calling, i would love to be proven wrong.  Again though, one instance is not a pattern.  If a new account is created, and they get jailed or banned, that actually proves my point, right?
    So it is harder to find any recent ones lol. There were a few mostly around the time of the announcements for Gambit getting changed and supports being introduced. The more recent support threads are just spiraling into apathy.

    So if it is happening less than i think or the mods are doing a good job then there is no point in people saying the devs are not here because of harrasment from players. Which brings us right back to why are they not here more than they are on a third party program?
    My point exactly. Instead, we have a thread about lack of communication having *zero* communication from them.  Not even a token "hey, we hear you and will look into it."
    Yep. Then is we question or say anything we will be negative, snarky, toxic and bad for the game when all we want is the same that happens in another game on this forum and what happens on Discord.  That’s it. Is that too much to ask?

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